How does a 'C' player become a 'B' player?

Slow DOWN!....have a VERY clear idea in your head of the shot you want to pull off!

I see too many b/c players rushing things.....take your time, and don't feel the need to rush off the table because you are not sure what to do next. Make up your mind right or wrong and go with it!

G.
 
snip

· Don't talk yourself into thinking a bank is higher percentage than a thin cut, in most cases it's not. You're just less comfortable with thin cutting and more frightened of missing them (maybe because "overcutting" a thin cut means you miss it entirely and you hate to be embarrassed by that). When the time is right to bank, you'll know it because you cannot even mentally visualize cutting the ball in. The attitude you want to have is "I will not bank unless there's a gun to my head".
· Don't convince yourself that hitting with left spin will somehow force a ball to go more left after hitting the OB, or right will go more to the right, because when rails are involved it doesn't.

snip

Awesome post, tons of great information. However, the first one I quoted, I prefer to bank simply because i don't want to "let whitey go" in most cases, and there is a better set afterwards. But this is usually very thin cuts.

And I don't understand the second one.

Lastly, to add to it, after every shot, if you miss or don't get the right set, figure out what you did wrong. Stay down on the shot with the follow through frozen to analyze. Look at the follow through, not at the balls moving. I do this, but I fail to really take it into account next time, especially power control. Take your time figuring everything out before you go down on the shot.
 
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TIPS by CREEDO

This is probably one of my favourite posts here an AZ. It was written by forum member Creedo. Creedo if you're reading this, I always enjoy your posts because more often than not, there's wisdom behind them.

I've always felt like the improvement was truly gradual, but what smutz said is really important... identify and break bad habits. Some very common bad habits I had to learn to break:

1. Stop 'englishing' in cuts with sidespin. Some people love to just undercut every ball and use outside english to throw it in. Others do the opposite and use inside. Some players absolutely cannot make a rail cut without low outside english, if they had to make it with center ball or inside they're helpless. Learn to make a ball with no english and then use the correct english to position the cueball, seldom will you use english just to help you sink a ball.

On the same track, if you find you can only make a certain ball by rolling it in or slamming it in, try your hardest to learn to make it at all speeds. Some players feel like you have to power long shots for example, and even though speed will help prevent a shot from rolling off, roll off is really only a concern at waaaay too slow speeds, at least on my local tables.

2. Stop using 'tricks' and 'body english' to move the cueball. Don't snap downward or jab at your draw strokes, don't twist the stick sideways on shots that need sidespin, don't start your stroke aiming at one spot and then move up or down or sideways mid-stroke to correct it (which a lot of people do subconsciously).

3. Don't be lazy with your leaves... pick a spot beforehand on every ball, don't just fall into patterns and figure "any angle is fine, it's an easy shot". Don't assume "the odds of getting totally straight here are slim, I should be ok"... make SURE you're not straight. Pick a particular leave area (really an exact leave 'spot') and try to put the cue ball there. Do this on every shot, and do it before you get down to shoot.

4. Don't fall prey to wishful thinking. This is a huge problem and ties in with 3 (anyway it was a big problem for me). Don't try to 'hold' a ball when you can sense it'll be very tricky... if a cut is steep and you'll be forced to send the cueball across the table, then bite the bullet and do it, don't just try to shoot extra soft and baby the OB in and hope you can get the leave. If you can see you're too straight to move the cueball the way you want, even after cheating the pocket, you must consider playing it another pocket, banking, going railfirst, or playing safe... don't just ram the ball extra hard and pray it works out, because it won't.

Other examples of wishful thinking -

...You can see an object ball just baaarely can NOT pass another ball, but you talk yourself into thinking it can. Or you can just see enough of a ball to hit it (but not to make it) but you convince yourself you can make it.

...You know you ought to check to see if a ball can pass in a tight situation, but you're too lazy to walk around the table and make sure, and you just shoot as if it definitely goes.

...You know you'll be in trouble if you leave the cueball parked on the rail, but you can't make yourself use the added force or spin or whatever that's needed to prevent it

...You can see a cut is too steep to send the cueball into a particular area but you try anyway (like the cueball is definitely going uptable when you're making a sharp cut along the short rail... but you try to hold it on your side of the table)

...you can see a certain ball is really important for getting a breakout or falling into a tight position, but you shoot it 'early' anyway without using it the way you wanted because it's the easiest shot and you're scared of missing the other available shots.

... you know that playing a very very sharp cut in the side is nearly impossible, and it'd be better to play such a shot in the corner (or to bank it) but you try anyway.

5. KISS - don't automatically play every ball in the nearest pocket, if it means you need to move the cueball a lot more to get position on that shot.

Once you understand english and have decent fundamentals, thinking and work is what separates you from other players. Try very hard to play every shot correctly even if it means taking more time, or making the shot harder, or taking a more difficult option, etc.

Also, be ready to go backwards before you can go forward. If the correct way to play a shot is with inside english to get position... but you only know how to make it with outside english, use the correct (inside) english even if it means missing something you are sure you could have made with the wrong english. In the short run you may miss more and lose more but in the long run you'll get stronger and eventually master making the cut with any english, and will start winning again.
 
my advice is just STAY down on a shot. esspically the nine ball, i remmeber a intresting thing Sarah said one time, "the lasst three balls are the toughest balls" which means you need to bare the hell down
 
Take lessons from someone who can analyze the strengths and weaknesses of your game, and teach you to deliver your stroke consistently every time. Besides a general lack of knowledge about the game, I think the other differences in C and B players are consistency and cue ball control. This all starts with a consistent stroke. I think the learning curve decreases when you take good lessons.
 
Make more balls or miss less.

Follow these two rules:

1. Never overcut the object ball
2. Never undercut the object ball


:thumbup:

I crack up every time someone bring the words of that old man out lol. Another good one, "Never miss!" :grin:

Ok, back to business. I am a beginner player, and the way I got better was by playing. Play and play until you don't want to and play some more. These are the words of my pool room owner and instructor. He says that, there is nothing a 1000 hours cannot cure. By playing players who arent as good can help build "fake" confidence, because I feel that, if you know you can beat themand you beat them, what did you gain out of it? I feel that if you play better players and you can see yourself progress, you get a much more satisfied reward. Because by playing with a better player, you would play your best game to try to stay at the table longer, rather than being a bench warmer. "I just want you best game!" lol It almost sounds like you just gotta relax, and loosen up bud.

Drills, videos, books, practice. Everything counts.

Good luck!

Happy shooting! :)

Chino
 
Adapted form a previous post of mine:

In my 40+ years around pool, I've noticed that the biggest difference between the C player and the B player is that "B level" is the first level at which players tend to play with the full range of strokes.

The C players I've watched over the years tend to stick to draw and follow, and also tend to restrict themselves to center and outside english. In other words, they rarely use stun strokes and rarely use inside english, and that's because they have no command of inside english and because stun draw, stun, and stun follow are outside their comfort zones, producing too many missed balls and missed shape. Lots of C players think they play with a full range of storkes, but few actually do.

Study 90 degree rule, and learn how to produce every angle off of the object ball. Learn draw, stun draw, stun, stun follow, and follow. Then learn to produce each of these strokes wit left english, center english and right english at the various speeds of stroke.

If you are a C player, I'll bet the house you are not playing with a complete stroke set, and unless you change this, you may never reach B level. You must do something about it. An instructor may ease your path, but I've seen many learn this on their own.

Great post!

I am a C player as well and my goal is to hit the B mark by the end of summer. I feel like I have the pieces to do so, but IM just not there. Ive slowed down my game A LOT and it seems to help. But I really must work on the different stokes as SJM said and really need to work with instructors more.
 
Teeto (and neil) thanks a lot! I actually meant to paste from that post you dug up.

Johnnyz: The more I play, the less and less I find that I really need to bank in situations where the first instinct is to bank. In situations where I have a makeable cut and a makeable bank, and banking gives you an easier leave afterwards... I still cut because most of the time a cut will be higher percentage than any bank. Not to say I never do it but I'll say it's less than 1 bank in every 10 games these days. I really find that if you thin cut as often as possible, you get used to playing position from these shots and you let whitey go less.

Not to say you're banking at the wrong time, it's just that sometimes I wish I could "lock" the option of banking, and take it away from a player until they're B level or something. I swear I have seen C players who would improve drastically if they simply pretended banking was a foul and never did it, because they get scared of routine 50 degree cuts and try to bank 'em.

On the second bit about hitting a ball with left or right... a lot of players, if faced with a situation where they got straight in and want to force the cue ball in a certain direction, will try to force it over with sidespin. But sidespin does not alter the path of the cue ball until it actually touches a rail. So if I have a straight in shot and I smack it with left english, that cue ball isn't going left... it's sitting in place and just spinning there. If it goes left at all it's because I cheated the pocket to the right, not because of the sidespin. Figuring that out helped me get out of a lot of 'I got too straight' situations because I learned to focus instead on how much I was cheating the pocket and where I'm hitting the CB.
 
There's some good info in here. I don't play APA league...so it's hard for me to know what level player I am, by those standards. I'm just curious....when does one know when they go from a B level to an A level. Is it the more consistent runouts?
 
Simple is better

Practice, yes...but knowing what to practice is also necessary.

If you really want to improve, you'll have to humble yourself and start practicing the most basic of basics (stroke)...you'll need to practice stroke until you're absolutely sure you can predict the effect of any given type of stroke...BUT BE CAREFULL NOT TO GET BORED!!

Why??

You need to keep yourself interested. Monotonous repitition of the same drill will not be benificial if it bores you. When you become bored, you don't try as hard. Pool is a mental game, that takes a great deal of concentration and effort, so keep it fresh-you'll be more into it, therefore giving it the effort it requires.

How might this be accomplished??

Ask about drills. Sort out which ones appeal to you. Have a handfull of simple drills and change them up often. Simple is better, don't try to do something to difficult like setting up 10-12 balls, you will miss. You will mess up. Discouragement will destroy your motivation. You will get bored, and this will hinder your progress.

Follow those principles...but be sure to relax, have fun and enjoy the game.

Feel free to PM me with any questions if my take on this is appealing to you, or if you'd like to know what drills I employ. I will humble myself and admit I still have much to learn. I hope that remains a constant. If so, I'll continue to improve my game...I may never be considered one of the greats...but I will be sure to enjoy the fruits of my efforts, and have fun playing the games I love.

-Aaron Silva
 
Stun Draw Shot

Adapted form a previous post of mine:

In my 40+ years around pool, I've noticed that the biggest difference between the C player and the B player is that "B level" is the first level at which players tend to play with the full range of strokes.

The C players I've watched over the years tend to stick to draw and follow, and also tend to restrict themselves to center and outside english. In other words, they rarely use stun strokes and rarely use inside english, and that's because they have no command of inside english and because stun draw, stun, and stun follow are outside their comfort zones, producing too many missed balls and missed shape. Lots of C players think they play with a full range of storkes, but few actually do.

Study 90 degree rule, and learn how to produce every angle off of the object ball. Learn draw, stun draw, stun, stun follow, and follow. Then learn to produce each of these strokes wit left english, center english and right english at the various speeds of stroke.

If you are a C player, I'll bet the house you are not playing with a complete stroke set, and unless you change this, you may never reach B level. You must do something about it. An instructor may ease your path, but I've seen many learn this on their own.

Would someone please explain to me what a "stun draw" shot is??? I get what a stun and stun follow is, but stun draw, nope, can't visualize it.
 
lstevedus...When you shoot the cb HARD, with draw, the cb will "stun" off the tangent line, and move down that line farther (before the draw causes it to bend), than it would if you shot the same shot with a softer stroke. In other words any stun shot causes the CB to travel initially down the tangent line (which is roughly 90 degrees to the point of contact on the OB). Any draw or follow on the CB will cause the CB to veer offline. When struck with more speed, the veer doesn't happen as quickly...so it appears that the CB goes more in a straight line down the tangent, before the draw has it's effect.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Would someone please explain to me what a "stun draw" shot is??? I get what a stun and stun follow is, but stun draw, nope, can't visualize it.
 
Would someone please explain to me what a "stun draw" shot is??? I get what a stun and stun follow is, but stun draw, nope, can't visualize it.
Also called "dead ball draw". On a nearly straight-in shot draw the cue ball at 45 degrees a short distance. Just a little draw for the speed you are using. For practice, set up a nearly straight shot to the side pocket with the cue ball right between the side pockets and the object ball just a little to one side half way to the pocket. In turn take the cue ball to each diamond on one end of the table without using a cushion. About half of those shots will be stun draw.
 
I just want to add, I think improvement is really a personal path. We can all sit here and outline what you need to do. Learn to pocket balls better, improve your position-play, simplify your approach. The truth is, you have to learn to critique yourself. If you don't run out, you have to honestly assess why. Where did it go wrong? Was it a missed shot or did you leave yourself too tough?

Yes, a range of strokes is necessary if you want to reach the upper levels of pool but any good pool player will also add, you want to avoid those specialty shots as much as possible. I also see a lot of C-level players who are stroke-happy, always twisting the cueball and showing off what they can do.

A great concept often discussed is three ball position play. Pocket the 1 to get on the 2 so you can get on the 3. Find predictable and obvious routes and really think about how you can improve these routes. Obviously, you'll be forced to play uncomfortable shots from time to time. I call it, "busting out the talent" but what you REALLY want to do is figure out ways to keep things "routine".

The truth is, those stun draws with spin are pretty and very satisfying when executed right but when you do have to bust out that talent, no matter how great you are, you are in an unfavorable position. Better pool, GREAT pool is about keeping it simple. So, in sum, when you miss and/or when you had to bust out the talent, don't forget to note the point in the sequence that forced you into that situation. Of course, if your opponent put you there, there's little to be said. If you put yourself there, learn to cut that out of your game as much as possible.
 
Learn Perfect Aim......

Practice, yes...but knowing what to practice is also necessary.

If you really want to improve, you'll have to humble yourself and start practicing the most basic of basics (stroke)...you'll need to practice stroke until you're absolutely sure you can predict the effect of any given type of stroke...BUT BE CAREFULL NOT TO GET BORED!!

Why??

You need to keep yourself interested. Monotonous repitition of the same drill will not be benificial if it bores you. When you become bored, you don't try as hard. Pool is a mental game, that takes a great deal of concentration and effort, so keep it fresh-you'll be more into it, therefore giving it the effort it requires.

How might this be accomplished??

Ask about drills. Sort out which ones appeal to you. Have a handfull of simple drills and change them up often. Simple is better, don't try to do something to difficult like setting up 10-12 balls, you will miss. You will mess up. Discouragement will destroy your motivation. You will get bored, and this will hinder your progress.

Follow those principles...but be sure to relax, have fun and enjoy the game.

Feel free to PM me with any questions if my take on this is appealing to you, or if you'd like to know what drills I employ. I will humble myself and admit I still have much to learn. I hope that remains a constant. If so, I'll continue to improve my game...I may never be considered one of the greats...but I will be sure to enjoy the fruits of my efforts, and have fun playing the games I love.

-Aaron Silva

It's happening all over the world everyday.

Especially where I'm at. That's a fact.
 
3 keys

You need to master the 3 keys,

First you need to be able to make balls. You can do this through a number of drills.

Second you need to be able to move the ball, play position, move the ball while making balls.

Third is strategy, you need to learn patterns to run a series of ball. You can watch You tube and see how pro's get shape and how they seem to get around the table. Strategy includes safety play, break position and shot selection

Now believe me there is more to it than just these keys but it's an outline for you to work on.

Practice, dedication , practice, education, instruction, practice, and guts.

Good luck on your quest.
 
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