How good is this shaft wood**********

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qbilder said:
years ago i spoke with the production manager at wolf river lumber and explained to him what i wanted in shaft wood. I even gave him a sample that he could base the product on. These guys supply the largest instrument factories in the world, as well as cabinet & furniture manufacturers. We agreed on how much i'd buy, an amount that he believed would justify the custom job. He couldn't even come close, and knew so. He told me how cue manufacturing companies had tried making the same deal before but none were ever happy. He left me with the promise that he'd do his best to meet my demand on quality, but not to hope for anything because that grade of maple is rarer than the highest figured stuff. They cut millions of bf of maple annually & to pick through board by board to meet the demand for wood like my sample, would be like sending his mill operators to find a needle in a haystack. He did promise to try, and said when and if he met the quota that we agreed would be fair, he'd get in touch. Never happened.
Moral of the story is that one of the largest suppliers of custom maple lumber in the world, a very well skilled & knowledgeable production manager, couldn't produce what i wanted in cue shaft wood. He clearly knows the industry & knows that "pallet loads" of that quality of wood simply doesn't exist. So when you see somebody advertising that they have it & there's plenty where it came from, you can bet your ass they are either lying or clueless or both. Snake oil. I log & mill my own shafts, as well as hand pick lumber from other sources. I know from first hand experience what the gentleman from wolf river was telling me is absolute truth. There simply is no abundance of top grade shaft maple anywhere in the world (maybe russia's large leaf forests) and that very simply dictates that nobody has an abundance of it.
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while i dont think a company like joss has all super shafts most are prety damn good make you realize the props they deserve in finding 80 k or so of them a year
 
JerseyBill said:
Geoff,
Making cues is a really hard thing to learn. I'm sure that grading and selling shaftwood is just as hard to learn. Don't be defensive, don't let everyone get you down. Try and grade a little better and be honest, give returns where you need to and live up to your word. Sure some people won't give you a break, but others will if you try. Calm down, don't get excited, you'll be able to sell the shafts. Everyone needs them, but it's so hard to find good shaftwood at good prices. Keep on plugging, I'm sure you'll be able to get along better with everyone as soon as you iron out the problems one at a time.

Good Luck, hope you do better....
ps don't screw anybody, even if they talk bad of you,,,you have to be honorable no matter what people say...if for nobody else, just for YOURSELF.....
JerseyBill
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Great post JB. Those are real pearls of wisdom. Rep to you!

Frank
 
recourse?

is there any recourse if you paid thru paypal?..nobody received what was promised to them...joe
 
Mojocues said:
while i dont think a company like joss has all super shafts most are prety damn good make you realize the props they deserve in finding 80 k or so of them a year
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One of the factories I was referring to that had tried striking a deal with Wolf River is McDermott. They supplied wood to McDermott but the wood wasn't satisfactory. It's not easy finding good wood. It's impossible to find an abundance.
 
runall8 said:
is there any recourse if you paid thru paypal?..nobody received what was promised to them...joe
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Good question ?
IF we all ( those who are owed refunds ) dispute the charges and claim fraud or misrepresentation, I think Paypal would notice .
 
Why hasn't anyone left this guy negative feedback on Itrader? He now has 6 positives... and that may give someone the wrong signal if they happen not to see this thread.
 
Wow!!! I go out of town for a day and look what happens!

Randy's first wood order was sent to me first in error, so I saw it. It was terrible! We're talkin' "highly figured".

"Now go sit in the corner" ...Damn Randy! I just spit my coffee all over the place. Now look what you've done!

I'm almost embarrassed now that the wood I got was quite good in the end, but I was toward the front of the line so no doubt Geoff was trying hard to impress. Even then I initially got some duds. How can someone sell AAA blanks with knots in them???

Leon, great detective job. Outstanding effort. Hats off!

Eric, thanks for the insight on how really rare this grade of wood really is. Your experience with that lumber company gives a clearer view than I had previously.

So, how DO the big production cue companies get what they need?

Robin
 
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paypal

i bought a small amount (6 AA+)..as soon as i opened the box something didn't look right..i contacted him and explained my worries..he promised me that after i cut them they would live up to his grading system..he did offer to exchange and or refund me if i returned them...since it was such a small amount, i chose to keep them..this was all before i heard how things were going with the rest of the guys on this site that obviously know what they are talking about..i emailed him and requested a partial refund or i can return for a full refund..lets see how that goes..i would think paypal could interject something
JoeyInCali said:
Good question ?
IF we all ( those who are owed refunds ) dispute the charges and claim fraud or misrepresentation, I think Paypal would notice .
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Why would anyone in their right mind want to become a supplier to this industry? :scratchhead:
 
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Phenolic

Just wanted to update that I did get my package of phenolic delivered today. Unfortunately, I can't use it because it's not the right color as I was told but at least it's something.
 
KJ Cues said:
You mean you don't already??? :rotflmao1:
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LOL

I like you and was influenced by information you gave me on the phone.

Very kind.

I spoke to another suppler who has been in the business for over 2 decades. He says "everyone and their mother is selling shaftwood" and business for him is horrible.
 
advice

pescadoman said:
I couldn't agree more, but he won't calm down.

He won't take good advice.

He takes shots and insults people who HAVEN'T done him wrong or called him names.

I put up with ALOT before I even STARTED to reciprocate his abuse and then I was fairly diplomatic at it is in THIS thread.

He is NOT honorable and never will be...I'm sorry, but he "aint" gonna change.

Bill, have you even read what he said in this thread??

If you would like his number I would GLADLY give it to you.
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I actually have his number,, I was going to go in with a few well known cue makers and give him a try. We never got together, but he was personable on the phone and tried to make a deal. I think one of the problems is he just needs more time. It's not easy what he's trying to do.
He just might have good intentions here. I don't know...I did read what he wrote and he got excited, but maybe I would have too. Lots of people are nailing him to the cross. Maybe they have a right, I don't know, BUT I bet they don't ALL have a right. Some people just like to jump on the band wagon and make forum life miserable. lol
I hope you guys get what you paid for ,,as well as Geoff doing well too.
cross your fingers, maybe he'll end up being on the "A" list with Chris Hightower???lol but maybe not? I'm hoping I'll be able to buy shafts from him at a good price in the future, Just not now.
Bill
 
JerseyBill said:
I actually have his number,, I was going to go in with a few well known cue makers and give him a try. We never got together, but he was personable on the phone and tried to make a deal. I think one of the problems is he just needs more time. It's not easy what he's trying to do.
He just might have good intentions here. I don't know...I did read what he wrote and he got excited, but maybe I would have too. Lots of people are nailing him to the cross. Maybe they have a right, I don't know, BUT I bet they don't ALL have a right. Some people just like to jump on the band wagon and make forum life miserable. lol
I hope you guys get what you paid for ,,as well as Geoff doing well too.
cross your fingers, maybe he'll end up being on the "A" list with Chris Hightower???lol but maybe not? I'm hoping I'll be able to buy shafts from him at a good price in the future, Just not now.
Bill
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There is no excuse for getting personal Bill and that is what he did. I never gave him a reason to insult me. I have most of the PM's to prove that. The worst thing I said to him was that his attitude could be the reason his other business is in peril.

You seem like a very forgiving and understanding person. I followed you bad experience with Briannas cnc. I hope you don't end up burned.

It was my intent to return the reject wood to Geof when I felt better(which I do now). I told Geof about the affects the pills have on me in confidence and he used that to take shots at me in public. That is not someone I want to have any further association with......ever.

He has my money and he can keep it.
 
I followed you bad experience with Briannas cnc.
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Yeah I remember that. Bill wasn't quite as forgiving was he. He screamed bloody murder every chance he got.

I guess its easy to be forgiving when you're sitting on the fence and don't have any losses.
 
JerseyBill said:
I actually have his number,, I was going to go in with a few well known cue makers and give him a try. We never got together, but he was personable on the phone and tried to make a deal. I think one of the problems is he just needs more time. It's not easy what he's trying to do.
He just might have good intentions here. I don't know...I did read what he wrote and he got excited, but maybe I would have too. Lots of people are nailing him to the cross. Maybe they have a right, I don't know, BUT I bet they don't ALL have a right. Some people just like to jump on the band wagon and make forum life miserable. lol
I hope you guys get what you paid for ,,as well as Geoff doing well too.
cross your fingers, maybe he'll end up being on the "A" list with Chris Hightower???lol but maybe not? I'm hoping I'll be able to buy shafts from him at a good price in the future, Just not now.
Bill
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Good luck Bill.
The dude is a jerk.
He can't do math for a lick either.
He'd rather keep 3% of $55 instead of getting $5.
No wonder he couldn't see crooked grains and count growth rings.
You already saw proof of his want ad for Michigan maple in Canada.

We already have a decent person from Michigan.
Save up some for his winter sawn logs.
 
It ain't over till it's over....

I got screwed too , but here's the catch .Geoff doesn't know me ....But I know him.....Geoff should fix what he did.....but he won't he's to stupid....See you around......................................:cool:
 
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