How good was James Walden in his prime?

[the Professor]

Are you referring to James and Jimmy Wetch? I believe they played an almost identical speed from what I've seen and heard.

I may be wrong.. but I've seen them both play multiple times and always thought that James would rob Wetch… If they matched up for the cash….

No disrespect to Wetch at all…. I just think that James was so much more mentally focused in the big money match ups...

 

[Charlie Hustle]

According to Lou Figueroa in a 2006 post on this forum: It wasn't until the draw, when I heard the table assignments, that I understood: they had added about a dozen tournament tables upstairs in the Jack Cooney/James Walden room (named after their high rolling 8 ahead 1pocket match from the 2000 Derby.


Now that we know it was in the 2000 Derby, which is pre AzBilliards forum genesis, it would be interesting to locate a factual article about this happening. Word-of-mouth seems to be the only pool archives in American pool, sad to say. I do wonder if some of the pool print media captured some of this happening.

I am a professional researcher and can problem find all the nitty-gritty details when time allows. Right now, though, I'm on my J-O-B and have no business reading AzBilliards. LOL

JAM, if i'm not mistaken, you have commented in detail about the match in the past. Last night I did a search for Jack Cooney and was reading some old posts, and pretty sure you comment about it...

 

[The Saw]

Thanks for sharing. Wish I had witnessed it. Wow!

I sweated a good bit of it, several hours. One viewing session I was sitting on the rail with Patcheye and Groundhog from Atlanta, two guys that had maybe seen as much one pocket as anyone on the planet. We wore each other out saying "that was the best move I've ever seen!". At one point we said it like six innings in a row, James would come with it and Jack would pull some Houddini shit and put James back in handcuffs, unreal pool!

 

[richiebalto]

OK, so here's my DCC trip report from 2000. I'm not 100% positive but I seem to recall that one of the magazines also did some kind of write up on the JW/JC match.

#####
February 10, 2000
Wow.



What an event. I went to play in the 1pocket and got there Saturday 
afternoon. It was like the fall of Saigon.

180 something bank pool
players, 156 one pocket players checking in, sweators and backers to the
rafters in a huge room with two dozen tables, Accu-Stats taping matches, and 
vendors with dozens of wonderful cues in the hallway. The equipment was 
first rate: oak, cherry, and walnut Diamonds with matching lights (with a 
beautiful cocobolo table for the Accu-Stats matches), Simonis, nice new
 shiny Super Aramith balls. Scotty Smith in charge.

Heaven.



The talent was awesome. Though the Filipinos were reportedly absent for a 
tournament in their home country, Dalton, JJones, Cooney, Spaeth, Varner,
Mathews, Vickery, Crane, Coltrain, Kucharo, Gay, Hoa, Santos, Townsend, 
Medina, Flaherty, Ellin, Deliberto, Icardona, and many others did show up.


In the "legends" bracket: Weenie Beanie, Cornbread, Dallas West, Cole
Dickson.* And as an added bonus, Eddie Taylor and George Roode came into the room to a round of applause and stood around shaking hands, signing 
autographs, shooting a few trick shots, and telling stories. I believe
 Accu-Stats did a group interview with Taylor, Runde Staton, Mathews that may
 eventually be for sale.



It was non-stop action. $50 nine ball games and five ahead sets of 1pocket for $500 constituted the "cheap" action. Upstairs in the action 
room, with another half a dozen tables, Cooney and Waldon were at it,
 eight ahead one pocket for, reputedly, 100K -- with another $50K on the side. When I left Wednesday, they were on a break after a day and night of play, with Cooney up one game. They were already talking about what would happen if they were still playing when the tournament was over and decided they’d just buy the table and rent the room from the hotel. It was all like a three-ring circus. You quite literally didn't know where to look and what to watch there was so much going on. 

I cashed, finishing 18-24th out of 156 -- for me, a great tournament.


Overall I played real well, keeping the "dog" well leashed. And, if you
 ever get a chance to see the Accu-Stats Grady/Varner match, you may catch a
 glimpse of me playing Dallas West on an adjoining table. He beat me 3-2 (I
 had him 2-1) but provided me with what was probably the highlight of the
tournament, for me personally. Now admittedly, he may say this to all the 
girls, but as we were shaking hands after the match he said, "I really like
 your game. I was lucky to beat you." For a guy that came up playing 
straight pool and idolizing the 14.1 gods, that meant a lot coming from a
world champion, Hall of Fame type of guy, like Dallas.



It was also a pleasure to meet Fred Agnir and Frank Brent. Of course it was 
also a pleasure to see Sherm again. Sorry I didn't meet Barenada, Tom 
Simpson, or Mike Janis. Where were you guys?



Well, that's it. Not much sleep over the course of four days, but well
 worth it. The tournament is still going strong, albeit 9ball. If
 you're within firing range you must go.
#####



Lou Figueroa

Very nice report Lou, and a great finish also!

Hitting the top 24 is something to be proud of Lou, with guys around our speed.

I played 1 pocket at the 2010 DCC and I placed tied for 48th, with I believe 308 players are something close to that.

That was the 1st big tournament I ever played, even know I only got back 200 dollars I was happy to finish in the money.

I told everybody when I got back to my local pool room that I was the 48th best 1 pocket player in the world! lol I went back the next year and went 2 in out!

I faded fast to the 300th best player in the world!

 

[rossaroni]

I may be wrong.. but I've seen them both play multiple times and always thought that James would rob Wetch… If they matched up for the cash….

No disrespect to Wetch at all…. I just think that James was so much more mentally focused in the big money match ups...

I do know that they did match up playing 9 ball. It has been a long time, but I remember talking to Jimmy, and he said one of his toughest matches was James. Maybe he said it was one of the only money matches he lost during that time(mid 90's).

Like I mentioned, this conversation happened a while ago, so I could be off on some of the exact details.

 

[(((Satori)))]

I do know that they did match up playing 9 ball. It has been a long time, but I remember talking to Jimmy, and he said one of his toughest matches was James. Maybe he said it was one of the only money matches he lost during that time(mid 90's).

Like I mentioned, this conversation happened a while ago, so I could be off on some of the exact details.

Jimmy won a tough battle.

 

[Dave714]

Saw CJ give Welch the 8. CJ won 2 set for about 8k. Took about 8 hrs.

 

[alphadog]

Saw CJ give Welch the 8. CJ won 2 set for about 8k. Took about 8 hrs.

Welch, or Wetch?
Wetch was a pro. Welch was just under prospeed.
Matlock beat Wetch, gave him weight and got a beatdown.

Last I heard Welch had found religion and became a preacher.

 

[Ken_4fun]

James would come with it and Jack would pull some Houddini shit and put James back in handcuffs, unreal pool!

I have to admit I had to smile on this.

Thanks for sharing.

Ken

 

[JAM]

I just went to the National Billiard News archive on this forum and read through the April 2000 edition, which is where the Derby City Results were listed. Dee Adkins won the All-Around. Though there was a lot of discussion about the tournaments, there was not one mention of any action, such as Cooney v. Walden. Hmm . . .

I wonder if the date of 2000 is correct for this match-up. You'd think something like this would have received some press.

 

[dardusm]

I may be wrong.. but I've seen them both play multiple times and always thought that James would rob Wetch… If they matched up for the cash….

No disrespect to Wetch at all…. I just think that James was so much more mentally focused in the big money match ups...

I had the privilege of watching Jimmy play well over a hundred hours of pool against some of the best players in the world. The game was almost always 10 ahead for 10 bags of peanuts. Staked by the owner and friends of Shooters in Olathe, it was a awesome. He played CJ, Johnny Archer, Efren Reyes, Reed Pierce, Shannon Daulton, Keith McCready, Dave Matlock, Roger Griffus, and others I can't remember off the top of my head. Most of the games were even but I do remember Jimmy getting the last 2 from CJ, the 7 from Efren, the 8 from Archer, and Matlock (but this was early on).

The thing about Jimmy was his solid percentage play. Plus, he was an ultimate grinder and could play well at 2 hours and 30 hours during the marathon match type play.

 

[lfigueroa]

Very nice report Lou, and a great finish also!

Hitting the top 24 is something to be proud of Lou, with guys around our speed.

I played 1 pocket at the 2010 DCC and I placed tied for 48th, with I believe 308 players are something close to that.

That was the 1st big tournament I ever played, even know I only got back 200 dollars I was happy to finish in the money.

I told everybody when I got back to my local pool room that I was the 48th best 1 pocket player in the world! lol I went back the next year and went 2 in out!

I faded fast to the 300th best player in the world!

Yup (sigh). To this day I still remember a one ball I slightly undercut down the rail to my hole against Leil Gay that hung up. Balls were wide open. I make it and get a few more and I'm in like the final 14.

Lou Figueroa
coulda been
a contendar

 

[lfigueroa]

I just went to the National Billiard News archive on this forum and read through the April 2000 edition, which is where the Derby City Results were listed. Dee Adkins won the All-Around. Though there was a lot of discussion about the tournaments, there was not one mention of any action, such as Cooney v. Walden. Hmm . . .

I wonder if the date of 2000 is correct for this match-up. You'd think something like this would have received some press.

I cannot believe you said that. I wrote that report shortly after my return home -- how am I going to mess that up?

You have to recall that at that time there was some sensitivity about open discussions on the gambling. Everyone knew it was going on, but as a ferinstance, Grady would come on and rail against guys on the groups for discussing his gambling. Folks would use euphemisms like "bags of sand" and "jelly beans." So there was some trepidation all around about reporting on big money matches.

Lou Figueroa

 

[JAM]

I cannot believe you said that. I wrote that report shortly after my return home -- how am I going to mess that up?

You have to recall that at that time there was some sensitivity about open discussions on the gambling. Everyone knew it was going on, but as a ferinstance, Grady would come on and rail against guys on the groups for discussing his gambling. Folks would use euphemisms like "bags of sand" and "jelly beans." So there was some trepidation all around about reporting on big money matches.

Lou Figueroa

Oh, I was not doubing the validity of your trip report. I was just wondering if maybe the date was copied wrong.

That said, you're probably right about no mention of gambling in the print media. What a shame! For me, that would have been the best part of the 2000 DCC. :grin-square:

 

[SouthernDraw]

I just went to the National Billiard News archive on this forum and read through the April 2000 edition, which is where the Derby City Results were listed. Dee Adkins won the All-Around. Though there was a lot of discussion about the tournaments, there was not one mention of any action, such as Cooney v. Walden. Hmm . . .

I wonder if the date of 2000 is correct for this match-up. You'd think something like this would have received some press.

JAM,

I only researched for a few minutes yesterday, so I am sure there is more out there. But, below is a link to an article that only mentions it in passing. No year or real details other than race to 100 for $50k each for each week. Not sure if they ran multiple races or not. If this was 1 hole, a race to 100 would be pretty brutal. Also, I'm not sure if I've read this article or if I have just read the all of the supporting research that the author has used. But it seems like I've read it verbatim before.

http://grantland.com/features/the-f...rl-strickland-efren-reyes-derby-city-classic/

DJ

 

[watchez]

Did James and David Matlock ever play each other ? We're they about the same speed ?

Walden and Matlock played on a big table in a BIG match in St Louis at the old Chesterfield Billiards. I kick myself for not writing down all the pool I have seen to have a better recollection of things but it was probably the late 90s. James won pretty handily BUT it was the worst I have ever seen David play. David kept miscuing and was never comfortable at the table. David had switched playing cues a short time before the match (I believe he had played with a McDermott for quite some time before switching). During the match itself, David switched cues several times trying to find one he was comfortable with. They never did have a rematch that I know of but would have liked to seen it with David more comfortable.

For those that don't think Matlock could play on a big table, you either haven't been around pool a long time or are simply without knowledge. David could absolutely play on any table.

As Saw stated, James would clean out Gabe playing any rotation game. One pocket, both in their prime would have been a toss up. A long set, I like James cause he was a battle horse.

No offense to Joey and Chip, but I would put money on James in his prime giving them the 7. James was simply a different animal.

I also saw James beat Jimmy Reid playing even one pocket in the 90s as well.

Jimmy Wetch and James would have been close playing rotation. Walden wins playing one pocket. I honestly don't think Wetch was the same after his hotel incident. But I always loved his gamble, he was a Lone Ranger as well and didn't need the big posse that players need to today. I'm sure as a Jack Cooney protege, that is where Jimmy was instilled with that.

One more - During a Memphis tournament, Walden was playing Austin Murphy (what ever happened to that kid?) and Austin was not paying attention to the table as Austin had his brother in attendance who was disabled and Austjn was attending to him. Walden fouled by moving an object ball and the cue ball hitting it. Austin didn't see it, no one really did. But James quietly sat down, and told Austin ball in hand, I fouled. James gained even more of my respect that day. Not many pool players would have made the call, sad to say.

 

[JAM]

Walden and Matlock played on a big table in a BIG match in St Louis at the old Chesterfield Billiards. I kick myself for not writing down all the pool I have seen to have a better recollection of things but it was probably the late 90s. James won pretty handily BUT it was the worst I have ever seen David play. David kept miscuing and was never comfortable at the table. David had switched playing cues a short time before the match (I believe he had played with a McDermott for quite some time before switching). During the match itself, David switched cues several times trying to find one he was comfortable with. They never did have a rematch that I know of but would have liked to seen it with David more comfortable.

For those that don't think Matlock could play on a big table, you either haven't been around pool a long time or are simply without knowledge. David could absolutely play on any table.

As Saw stated, James would clean out Gabe playing any rotation game. One pocket, both in their prime would have been a toss up. A long set, I like James cause he was a battle horse.

No offense to Joey and Chip, but I would put money on James in his prime giving them the 7. James was simply a different animal.

I also saw James beat Jimmy Reid playing even one pocket in the 90s as well.

Jimmy Wetch and James would have been close playing rotation. Walden wins playing one pocket. I honestly don't think Wetch was the same after his hotel incident. But I always loved his gamble, he was a Lone Ranger as well and didn't need the big posse that players need to today. I'm sure as a Jack Cooney protege, that is where Jimmy was instilled with that.

One more - During a Memphis tournament, Walden was playing Austin Murphy (what ever happened to that kid?) and Austin was not paying attention to the table as Austin had his brother in attendance who was disabled and Austjn was attending to him. Walden fouled by moving an object ball and the cue ball hitting it. Austin didn't see it, no one really did. But James quietly sat down, and told Austin ball in hand, I fouled. James gained even more of my respect that day. Not many pool players would have made the call, sad to say.

So what is the hotel incident with Jimmy Wetch? What happened?

Also, I met Austin and his brother and their father in Orlando. His dad is a very nice person. Austin's brother seemed to have a chip on his shoulder, kind of angry. I'm not sure why. I saw them in Florida and then later in Vegas.

In Vegas, I caught the tail end of a match between Austin and Kid Delicious. I thought Austin was going to win on the infamous double hill, but he missed a shot that gave Danny the opportunity to capture the almighty win.

Everybody in the audience was captivated by this young man. His brother was there rooting him in, as was his father. I think his brother plays pool, too, as I recall.

Here's Austin in Orlando, December 2005. I remember his father made him do his homework while he was there. :grin-square:

 

[JAM]

Here's Austin and his dad at the same Orlando tournament. His father was really nice. :smile:

 

[jay helfert]

Jack Cooney and James Walden did play at DCC about 15 years ago. I'm pretty sure James gave Jack 9-8 and it may have been 10-8 on his break. There was some small weight involved. I know because I was in for 5K of the original 50K bet. So there was 100K in the middle besides substantial side bets that were made. It was an Eight Ahead match that took three days to complete, with Jack getting there in the end. I must have watched about 12-15 hours of the match total. I agree, there was excellent play on both sides, two great One Pocket players butting heads. I would say they both played better than any One Pocket match in the tournament going on down below.

 

[watchez]

So what is the hotel incident with Jimmy Wetch? What happened?

Short version is Jimmy and his girlfriend were out on the road and made the mistake of letting some people know what hotel they were staying at. They broke into his hotel room, beat the living daylights out of him and his gal, and stole his bankroll.