How many of you can beat the 9-ball ghost?
- Thread starter Salamander
- Start date
missed race to nine part. I checked blue moon based on rack by rack count. Sorry
I've never personally been involved or watched someone play the ghost without BIH after the break. Rules probably differ from one place to the next. No BIH is too much for me to fade. My break is so bad, I doubt I make a ball 50% of the time.JimBo said:
A well known champion came through our area a while back and played the bar table ghost with no ball in hand, just play it where it lies, and he barbequed it. BAD!!!
I'm going to guess i can do it 20 to 30% of the time. Unfortunately i may not be able to try it for a few more weeks. When i get a chance to try it, i will post the results.
If i had to try and break and run without ball in hand, i'd say my % would drop to maybe 5%
.
Rodney<-----needs practice
If i had to try and break and run without ball in hand, i'd say my % would drop to maybe 5%
. Rodney<-----needs practice
JimBo said:
Hey Jimbo,
Just because you ain't hacking it, don't project inadequacies on others and call them liars. It doesn't take an A+ player. It takes an A-, and even a strong B+ can barbeque the ghost with bih. I know.. Because I was a strong B+ rapidly improving, and could beat the ghost consistently.
You just don't realize how strong bih after the break is. Any shortstop would kill any top pro if they got spotted the breaks and bih after the breaks. A mediocre shortstop could spot Efren probably 4 games on the wire in a race to 9 this way. When I come back from Iraq, I'll take you up on your offer, and I am certainly no pro. If you'll fade $500 sets, I'm with it.
Do you seriously think only 4 or 5 people on this whole forum can run out with bih after the break? SERIOUSLY? 9 ball ain't the hardest game in the world, once you get an open shot. A lot of people think playing the ghost for money is pressure-packed. Sorry, not for me. Knowing the ghost can only punish me one game at a time boosts my confidence and helps me get out in very tough racks.
A month of practice when I get back from over here and I'll rob you. I'll have plenty of money. Wanna freeze up a grand?
Russ
I've beaten the Ghost, maybe a hand full of times when actually playing it. Which isnt too often.
And I take BIH after the break. I'm on my best days a solid B/B+ player. All my other days I'm stuck around C+/B-.
But this is playing on a 9ft too.
In the times I have beaten the Ghost, it was brutal, and ended up something like 9-3, 9-4 matches.
And yes giving up BIH is alot. Trying playing the Ghost without ball in hand! now thats a challenge some pro's would have a tough time doing.
And I take BIH after the break. I'm on my best days a solid B/B+ player. All my other days I'm stuck around C+/B-.
But this is playing on a 9ft too.
In the times I have beaten the Ghost, it was brutal, and ended up something like 9-3, 9-4 matches.
And yes giving up BIH is alot. Trying playing the Ghost without ball in hand! now thats a challenge some pro's would have a tough time doing.
Again we are talking a race to 9 here..... There used to be a way of grading players so to speak, by the percentage of time they will run out with an open table. The way I remember ranking players didnt have as many "steps" as there seem to be today....
Say if you run out 1 out of 10 runnable racks..... D or below
2 out of 10 D
3 out of 10 Low C
4 out of 10 C
5 out of 10 low B
6 out of 10 B
7 out of 10 Low A
8 out of 10 A
9 out of 10 or better Pro
At my absolute best I was a high B to low A, averaged in the middle to low Bs..... and I couldnt beat the ghost in a race to 9 consistantly more than 20-30% of the time.
Even with ball in hand, we are still talking about the table laying runnable..... for at least 9 out of 17 racks..... the odds on that alone are lower than 50% I would imagine.
Chuck
From what I've seen, most guys who consider themselves to be decent players, who often do quite well in league play, and will often dominate a table in a bar, they are usually only capable of beating the 4 or 5 ball ghost.
Imagining one can do something is quite different from actually being able to do that thing consistantly.
In my opinion, anyone who beats the 9-ball ghost often, stands a realistic chance of beating the top pros in a race to 9 if they get a run of the balls.
Colin
Imagining one can do something is quite different from actually being able to do that thing consistantly.
In my opinion, anyone who beats the 9-ball ghost often, stands a realistic chance of beating the top pros in a race to 9 if they get a run of the balls.
Colin
I would totally agree with Colin. to beat the ghost on 1 rack is something. To beat the ghost in a race to nine you have to be in the top %5 of players.Colin Colenso said:
While I think there are a lot of very good players who visit AZ, there are a lot more who have decent skills and are still progressing. So it can be disheartening for them to read opinions that make it sound like nearly any Joe Blow can give the 9-ball ghost a run.ribdoner said:
I recall some guys coming into a bar of league players offering even money on the spot shot for $50 a pop. They did this because they had won money many times on this little challenge.
Most players assumed they could win the bet, but only the better players could do so under the pressure. Some guys would crack under the pressure and blow several hundred trying to get their money back.
Running the 9-ball v the ghost is probably similar to making 4 or 5 spot shots in a row. Maybe someone can go down to a local pool hall and offer $50 for players to beat the 6-ball ghost and see how you do. Filter out the known players and let the big egos put their game on the line and see how often they crumble.
Just an idea
Colin
For what it's worth, in one of my Accu-Stats tapes, it was mentioned the pros runout better than 85% of the time with ball in hand after the breaks.
Aaron_S said:
Expecting and doing are two different things. I posted this poll to get an idea of what most people think they could do. I'm in the camp that thinks it is much harder than you would realize. There is an A player here in Colorado who has donated about $400 to me trying to beat the ghost. He comes close sometimes, but does not quite get there.
What inevitably happens is that you end up getting a few racks in a row where the balls are not laying well. You can end up losing 3 or 4 racks in a row quickly without really even getting a chance. This tends to "crack" many players who can't fade the heat. It takes real discipline to beat the ghost and fade some of the bad luck. If you break is working well, then for many very good players it is not too bad. Overall, for those newbies at this game, don't be too discouraged if you don't do well. It's not for the faint of heart.
Regards, Doug
Salamander said:
Certainly, and I'm only basing my opinion on how I play the 9-ball ghost on my table, so I can't speak for everyone. It would be an interesting study to find out exactly where the break-even point really is. Obviously, a lot depends on the table. It also depends on the bet; if a guy is betting outside of his comfort zone, then he's going to play under his normal speed anyway.
IMO, any top pro should be able to give the ghost at least 4 (maybe a lot more) on the wire going to 9, assuming bih after the break and 5" pockets. I sure as hell wouldn't bet against Archer or Parica or Owen at that game.
JMHO
Yesterday, I had some time to kill so I went to an old haunt of mine and started playing the ghost.
Man, it's more difficult than I expected. You really have to be on your game not to lose to your spooky opponent.
I went 2-9, and 4-9 in the two tries I did. And on the second round, three of those four wins were 1-9 combos due to the break/BIH bit. I felt cheap :/
I'm going to have to keep trying this... it feels like it's better practice than just trying to run racks - as there's that (albeit artificial) pressure on to beat that non-corporeal wanker!
Doug, PM me, if you're so inclined, with who's been donating to you. I'm curious.
Man, it's more difficult than I expected. You really have to be on your game not to lose to your spooky opponent.
I went 2-9, and 4-9 in the two tries I did. And on the second round, three of those four wins were 1-9 combos due to the break/BIH bit. I felt cheap :/
I'm going to have to keep trying this... it feels like it's better practice than just trying to run racks - as there's that (albeit artificial) pressure on to beat that non-corporeal wanker!
Doug, PM me, if you're so inclined, with who's been donating to you. I'm curious.
I had some time last night after league so I tried it out for a while. after 15 games with BIH after the break I was only able to get out 3 times. I was never under the impression that it would be easy but I wanted to see how I would do.
Admittedly I don't play 9-ball very often.
Admittedly I don't play 9-ball very often.
Russ Chewning said:
Russ,
I think Jim was talking about breaking and getting the shot after, no ball in hand. Now THAT would be a trick that I don't even know if a pro can handle. And there's nobody on the planet who can be expected to win with break, have to make a ball, and run out without BIH. (Except maybe on the ESPN TV table.
).I agree with your assesment otherwise. Most people I consider "A" players that I know will beat the ghost in a race on an average table with ball in hand after the break if they're in stroke. It takes a high speed player to beat the ghost on very tight tables.
Chris
JimBo said:
I completely agree. Either people are under estimating the difficulty of beating the ghost in a race to 9 or are over estimating their talent.
I never heard of the rule of BIH after the break either. I've always played/seen it played - break and run. BIH after the break seems almost like cheating. Part of the game is controlling your cue ball on the break. No ball is needed on the break.
THe last person I saw beat the ghost consistently was Pagulayan and he wasn't BBQ'ing him.
We have 20 folks who need to go to the US Open, if they can break and run consistently.
Jim
jhendri2 said:
No ball in hand after the break is too difficult. I've seen the ghost played many times by world class talent, and the bet has always been with ball in hand after the break. As I mentioned before, if the 9-ball ghost is too easy, you can add balls.
Regards, Doug