How Much is Too much?

C

cmb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Our local monthly tournament has been changing over the last six months. First they upped the entry to $40, then they upped the house cut to $200, upped the tournament coordinator to $200. Now we find out they are taking 30% out of the Calcutta.

Before the changes we would have 38 plus players. With the increases the numbers have continued to drop to 12-15. All the players that use to play that would have to get alot of breaks to win are now staying away.

I'm just totally pissed. Tried to talk to the coordinator and was told this is my tournament. Don't play.

Just how does this measure up to your area tournaments?

Thanks CB
 
Wow! Ower weekly tournament cost $10 house adds $5 per entry. 0 green fees. House runs tournament. So we have a 150% pay out. Average 16 to 32 players per week.

Larry
 
bad thing about local monthly tournaments is the gradual lose of players.when the event is new and fresh they want to take a crack at it.the weaker one's will fade away after the thrill diminishes.then you are left with only the more seasoned players.it happens every where.take the advice and quit playing in it if you can't win it.

bill
 
cmb said:
Our local monthly tournament has been changing over the last six months. First they upped the entry to $40, then they upped the house cut to $200, upped the tournament coordinator to $200. Now we find out they are taking 30% out of the Calcutta.

Before the changes we would have 38 plus players. With the increases the numbers have continued to drop to 12-15. All the players that use to play that would have to get alot of breaks to win are now staying away.

I'm just totally pissed. Tried to talk to the coordinator and was told this is my tournament. Don't play.

Just how does this measure up to your area tournaments?

Thanks CB
Click to expand...

I would never play in such a tournament. First of all, I have never gotten where a TD feels entitled to get paid. I have helped run tournaments before, it's not rocket science, and certainly not worth getting paid $200 for. Nine times out of ten, these same TD's play in their tournaments, which, if they're already getting paid, seems like a conflict of interest to me. Why the bar feels entitled to a portion of those monies has always eluded me as well....especially those tournaments that require you to either pay a 'greens' fee or quarters for the table....they're already getting their money just by having a large group of people in the bar for an extended length of time...drinks and food, etc.

I have seen greed kill many a tournament...and it sounds like this one may well be on it's way out. Find another location and set up your own tournament, with more reasonable buy-ins, and they will come.

Lisa
 
a "house cut" of entry fees? I can see green fees, but a $200 cut? Jesus christ. Dipping into the calcutta? Yikes.

Find another tournament.


Out of curiosity, Does this place serve drinks (i.e. beer or booze)?
 
jelly

cmb said:
Our local monthly tournament has been changing over the last six months. First they upped the entry to $40, then they upped the house cut to $200, upped the tournament coordinator to $200. Now we find out they are taking 30% out of the Calcutta.

Before the changes we would have 38 plus players. With the increases the numbers have continued to drop to 12-15. All the players that use to play that would have to get alot of breaks to win are now staying away.

I'm just totally pissed. Tried to talk to the coordinator and was told this is my tournament. Don't play.

Just how does this measure up to your area tournaments?

Thanks CB
Click to expand...

Quite a bit of jelly for the house. A percent would be more fair for the house, meaning more fair to the players. More players, more money for the house. How much does the house ADD? As far as TDs are concerned, would you work for peanuts and put up with all the BS? TD gets $200 for eight hours work? Two days work? I would be glad to run a one day tourney for a c note, but I would also play!! LOL. Something tells me this is the only game in town? Not many choices for tourneys? Find another place and throw your own tourney. Hundred percent payback and bust up their tourney. Around here, Okla., nothing for the house and certainly nothing from the calcutta. They make money on the tables, food, beer. What else more could they ask for? Taking money from the calcutta is the most insane of all.!!! The house should pay the TD from their pocket.
 
These guys are thieves. Print this thread out and show all the players. Find another tournament and never patronize that place again.
 
cmb said:
Our local monthly tournament has been changing over the last six months. First they upped the entry to $40, then they upped the house cut to $200, upped the tournament coordinator to $200. Now we find out they are taking 30% out of the Calcutta.

Before the changes we would have 38 plus players. With the increases the numbers have continued to drop to 12-15. All the players that use to play that would have to get alot of breaks to win are now staying away.

I'm just totally pissed. Tried to talk to the coordinator and was told this is my tournament. Don't play.

Just how does this measure up to your area tournaments?

Thanks CB
Click to expand...

Whether the TD is playing is irrelevant.......

The tournaments around here have a $5-$10 greens fee depending on the venue. The TD and the host estabishment split the greens fee.
Entry fees go back to the players. Calcutta goes back to the players. The numbers get posted after the first round is drawn and players start (to get things underway).
Doing the math, based on a $25 entry, full 64 man field, the entry $$ come out to $1600 (less calcutta). And it all goes back to the players.

So in a 64 man tournament, at a minimum of $2.50 ($5.00 split), the TD gets at least $160 for his total time.
Most tourneys around my area take about 10-12 hours at a venue with 6 tables, including the time to do the calcutta.

Full 64 man tourney, 12 hours long, the TD makes $13.33/hour.

Don't know if that's good or bad. The TD still has to deal with the BS associated with prima donnas and such.

That's how it's done here, anyway.
 
Calcutta dips are fine, especially if the person running it is bringing in thousands as opposed to a non seasoned person bringing in 500

Spider1 said:
a "house cut" of entry fees? I can see green fees, but a $200 cut? Jesus christ. Dipping into the calcutta? Yikes.

Find another tournament.


Out of curiosity, Does this place serve drinks (i.e. beer or booze)?
Click to expand...
 
Well keep in mind here with the dips...That is actually illegal in any county/state that gambling is illegal. The law on that is that people are more than welcome to play for money as long as its private dealings, what makes it illegal is the house taking a cut of the pot in any way, that would make them a gambling house which in any county/state that gambling is illegal is obviously illegal.
 
Having a 3rd party run the calcutta for a percentage is usually kosher but I have always seen it done for 10%. In many locales a calcutta is considered gambling and the house does not want the legal troubles that could be tied to it.

If the establishment serves food and drinks I would think that the green fees or house cut should reflect the added business from the tournament players. If the players order water and complain about the price of a coke the room has no choice but to take a cut or add greens fees.

If the tournament uses all the available tables then there is an opportunity cost associated with having the tournament since you will have no table revenue for most of the tournaments duration. This will also kick in a house cut or greens fees if the players aren't buying food and drink to offset the opportunity costs.

Holding a tournament can be little work or lots of work depending on the event. For arguments sake lets just go with the OP's $200 and divide it by 12 hours.. $16.67 an hour. That's not too shabby but a real TD should do more than just show up to the event. They should be posting flyers, calling players, finding a cuemaker or 2 to set up displays and do repairs, coming up with side events like break contests and raffles.

If the tournament is dying like the OP posted it's as much the fault of the current TD as it is the amount of the rakes.

I would be willing to bet that the players who think the TD shouldn't make anything for doing the work associated with the event fall on two extremes. You would have those players who spend lots of cash at the venue and the ones who won't spend $1 on a cup of coffee.

The spenders would assume they could multiply what they spent by the number of players and think they were being robbed because the house was surely making bank but they didn't consider the Nits that complained about the price of a coke and the refill policy.

In my experience the Nits far outweigh the spenders in this sport..... The Nits will complain about any cut taken out of a tournament....
 
We had 30 in our weekly 9b tournament last night.Friday
$10 entry and the owner matches the pot up to $200.
So we had a $10 entry with a $500 payout

Our Monday night is free entry and pays
1st $100
2nd $50
3rd $ 25

On Tuesday we have $5 entry and $100 to $150 added

Saturday is like Friday except it is 10ball
 
u12armresl...Maybe, but 30% is outrageous! In Montana the annual State Coin-op championships are run by the vendors. They used to (don't know if they still do) rake 30% of the calcutta, and use it to buy players. Totally unprofessional imo. 10% is more reasonable. This tournament is a rip off, imo.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

u12armresl said:
Calcutta dips are fine, especially if the person running it is bringing in thousands as opposed to a non seasoned person bringing in 500
Click to expand...
 
The only decent room here started a B Player King of the Hill Tourney.
A short list of short stop and better players arent allowed in.
It averages over 30 even in July, $25 entry, calcutta tops $2k regularly.

The KOH format keeps weaker players in because if they draw the last spot in their flight they still have a good shot at cashing.

House pays 100% and no green fees.
 
My "home" poolhall, Doc & Eddys, in Abq, hosts 2 weekly $10 tournaments and tries for a monthly, but depends on others to put it together. The Monday night weekly is $10 buy-in, 6 chips, 9-ball, race to one. Lots of fun and great entertainment. The Thursday night weekly is $10 buy-in, 9-ball, race to three on both sides, double elimination. Great fun, get to play the top players in town, learn lots. The monthly, or semi-monthly, is $50 buy-in, 9-ball, race to 7 on A-side, to 5 on B-side, double elimination, limited to 32 players, calcutta about half the time. Sometimes there is a "dirty doubles" tournament, blind draw for partner, $25 each buy in. My point: in NONE of these tournaments, NONE, does the house take a cut, nor the td's, nor the calcutta. The house makes it's *cut* by selling food and drinks to lots of people. ALL of the money is distributed to the players. In fact, the td's get a free meal from the house for their work. There is NO WAY that I would play in a regular tournament as described above in the original post. JMO.
:p
 
peteypooldude said:
We had 30 in our weekly 9b tournament last night.Friday
$10 entry and the owner matches the pot up to $200.
So we had a $10 entry with a $500 payout

Our Monday night is free entry and pays
1st $100
2nd $50
3rd $ 25

On Tuesday we have $5 entry and $100 to $150 added

Saturday is like Friday except it is 10ball
Click to expand...



Now thats what I call on the Up n Up!, I bet you never have a lack of players, I wish I lived around a place that had tournaments like that, Texarkana,AR,/TX. used to be like that , but not anymore.


David Harcrow
 
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