I HATE Bunting

HawaiianEye

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have a love/hate relationship with today's modern equipment. On one hand, the faster cloths, rails, etc. make the game a bit easier than it was years ago, but I think it has taken a lot of "stroke" out of the game. Playing today is like bunting the balls around the table.

I played yesterday and played well enough to come out five sets (races to 5) ahead of my opponent, but the whole day consisted of "bunting" the balls instead of "stroking" them. The tables were so fast it was hard to keep from over running your position or either being so afraid to turn the ball loose, you come up short.

Also, today's style of playing is run half a dozen and then play a safe and then hope your opponent misses and then you get ball in hand and run the rest.

I prefer the old style of playing when the tables were a bit slower and you had to have a "stroke" to get around the table and I also prefer two-shot rollout over the one-foul, ball in hand style of today. Two-shot makes the game a lot more interesting and exciting to watch and play.

Any old schoolers out there or am I alone?
 
You are alone.

I have never played 2 shot pushout.

I like the rails, the cloth and the equipment.

Ken
 
my home table is slow, so I get to let it out on the stroke and sometimes still come up short
 
You and CJ Wiley should get along great, he also prefers slow cloth and 2-foul rollout.
I'm sure you'll notice others singing the praises of that stuff on here.

You may not see much slow cloth anymore but no reason you can't convince opponents to try rollout.
For fun you should get some takers. For money... they may smell a trap :P

I'm not sold on the idea that the game is easier because of faster cloth. Do you need to hit less hard?
Sure. Is that easier? Not when you fall too thin in a ball and are forced to go over-and-back across the table,
while a slow table might have allowed you to kill/hold the cue ball.

Every time I play on slower tables it feels easier, the table is more forgiving of my speed errors.
I can hold anything and almost never overrun shape and end up stuck on the head rail.
I do sweat it a little though if I end up having to draw from 8 feet away.
But I can't imagine why anyone would love having to swing like Barry Bonds at these shots.
 
You're not alone.

Granted my old table played real slow and my new table is still on the slower side but when I play at a friend of mine's house I suck. His table plays really fast and it takes me forever to get used to it. I'm not that old (37) and I just don't remember tables playing this fast. I hit the cue ball on his table at break speed and I was able to get 6 1/2 or 7 rails (can't remember which). That's TOO fast if you ask me. But everybody that I talk to that has played there likes how fast the table is.

Maybe my new table isn't slow after all....

I just pulled up the WPA specs and I'm thinking they need to update them. They have the up and down test at 4 to 4.5 rails. I could get 4 on my old table and once my basement dries out I think I will be able get over 5 on my new one but that still seems slow in comparison to the tables I'm seeing on the streams and not just the TV tables either.

It just seems like the standard is now to have really lively rails. I personally don't like this but it's possible I'm just not accustomed to playing on "Good" rails. This is a serious possibility. I've actually noticed that the rails seemed livelier in some of the older 14.1 matches, when watching some of the clips of Mosconi, Crane, Balsis and some of the players from that era. Clearly the cloth was slower back then BUT the rails certainly seemed pretty lively. Maybe this is the problem – if you go with the really lively rails you really don't need the really fast cloth. I almost think I would like the opposite better – faster cloth (faster than 860) and not so lively rails.

On a standard Diamond tournament quality table -- say one used at Derby City -- how many rails can you get using this up and down test?
 
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Two shot foul brought out the best in the game in my opinion. If tied up,,push out to eithr play safe or make a tough shot. Same way the game is now on the first shot of each match. Don't see why it couldn't be brought forth again. Back when,,if we were playing for high money,,we didn't kick at balls unless we elected to with a push just so we could kick. I think that the 2 shot foul rule went out during the late 60's or early 70's. To add ,,I have heard that it was made one shot foul for One of the follwing reasons. The first one I have heard is that was brought in for television,,just to make the game quicker and more interesting. It didn't in my way of thinking
Second reason,,Luthor Lassiter ,,nobody could beat him playing 2 shot foul,,so they tried to come up with one that handicapped him.
What ever the reason,,it took the spot shot out of 9 ball,,and that was something that was practiced all the time,,if one played on the road
 
CreeDo said:
But I can't imagine why anyone would love having to swing like Barry Bonds at these shots.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I am much less accurate when I have to hit hard. The OB usually ends up rattling in the pocket...but hey, I got the position I was trying for :eek:
 
CreeDo said:
You and CJ Wiley should get along great, he also prefers slow cloth and 2-foul rollout.
I'm sure you'll notice others singing the praises of that stuff on here.

You may not see much slow cloth anymore but no reason you can't convince opponents to try rollout.
For fun you should get some takers. For money... they may smell a trap :P

I'm not sold on the idea that the game is easier because of faster cloth. Do you need to hit less hard?
Sure. Is that easier? Not when you fall too thin in a ball and are forced to go over-and-back across the table,
while a slow table might have allowed you to kill/hold the cue ball.

Every time I play on slower tables it feels easier, the table is more forgiving of my speed errors.
I can hold anything and almost never overrun shape and end up stuck on the head rail.
I do sweat it a little though if I end up having to draw from 8 feet away.
But I can't imagine why anyone would love having to swing like Barry Bonds at these shots.
Click to expand...

I used to disagree but I've seen the light somewhat. I do think it's harder to play position on the faster tables. The caveat I have is it really levels the playing field when it comes to players with weak strokes being able to compete with those that are more powerful. I don't really think this is good for the game. I think this is the main reason why professional men and women players appear to be so close in skill level. The truth is that the men tend to have much more powerful strokes but they really don't have to showcase them as often as they used to.
 
Well....you can change how the table plays. grab a spray bottle an lightly hit the table with it..eat some pizza an use the balls as napkins..throw some salt over the now damp cloth..dust the rails an cloth with chalk an baby powder..if you get this far before the owner kicks your butt..you'll have all kinds of rolls..as far as old equipment..you can have it..a stroke is a stroke.
 
It seems like a fast table and a slow table both go around 4 1/2 rails up and down but the big difference between the 2 is on the slow and medium speed shots. I would say I strongly dislike playing on slow tables.
 
HawaiianEye said:
I have a love/hate relationship with today's modern equipment. On one hand, the faster cloths, rails, etc. make the game a bit easier than it was years ago, but I think it has taken a lot of "stroke" out of the game. Playing today is like bunting the balls around the table.

I played yesterday and played well enough to come out five sets (races to 5) ahead of my opponent, but the whole day consisted of "bunting" the balls instead of "stroking" them. The tables were so fast it was hard to keep from over running your position or either being so afraid to turn the ball loose, you come up short.

Also, today's style of playing is run half a dozen and then play a safe and then hope your opponent misses and then you get ball in hand and run the rest.

I prefer the old style of playing when the tables were a bit slower and you had to have a "stroke" to get around the table and I also prefer two-shot rollout over the one-foul, ball in hand style of today. Two-shot makes the game a lot more interesting and exciting to watch and play.

Any old schoolers out there or am I alone?
Click to expand...


I haven't read the whole thread so I apologize if this has already been mentioned. If you really want to stroke your shots buy a oversized cue ball. Even with fast cloth you really need to drill it to generate a lot of spin.

This one is only $5
http://www.pooldawg.com/product/action-oversized-cue-ball
 
I am old enough to have played push out rules. They created ball in hand for faster play on TV Now that there is no TV coverage why can't we go back to pushout
JUST MY 2 CENTS WORTH !
 
I played on slow cloth in the '60s to faster cloth now . what you need now is "touch"-the ability to feather shots gently to control the cue ball in a lot of situations.
I also grew up playing 2 shot push out. I still think this is the way to play if you are gambling-it allows you to protect your money.
For funnsy 9 or 10 ball which is all i play now i like the ball in hand rules.
And trying to find someone who not only understands 2 shot push out let alone is any good at it is tough.
 
gerard soriano said:
I am old enough to have played push out rules. They created ball in hand for faster play on TV Now that there is no TV coverage why can't we go back to pushout
JUST MY 2 CENTS WORTH !
Click to expand...

If we go back to it races to 9 would take 2 days.Most of these players today study every shot like they never played before. I'm not a world class player but I'm pretty good and 90% of the time i know how i have to play a shot and just get down and do it.
I think a lot of the slow play is nerves. Watch some of theses guys break. Down up-down up-break the balls for gods sake.
I once watched a tape of Jim Rempe running a 150 balls,after about 15 minutes I'm yelling at the TV set"shoot the shot already". I couldn't stand it and never finished watching it.
 
I enjoy playing on slow cloth as well. At my hall, the house pro is an old-timer who likes the older cloth. You need a real smooth stroke to move the cue ball around the table and most of the players that come from other halls don't have enough of a stroke to handle it.
Playing on fast cloth, I feel like I'm just poking the balls around and rarely have a chance to let my stroke loose.
 
Today's game is only about 20% of it's potential, and the players are making .......

HawaiianEye said:
I have a love/hate relationship with today's modern equipment. On one hand, the faster cloths, rails, etc. make the game a bit easier than it was years ago, but I think it has taken a lot of "stroke" out of the game. Playing today is like bunting the balls around the table.

I played yesterday and played well enough to come out five sets (races to 5) ahead of my opponent, but the whole day consisted of "bunting" the balls instead of "stroking" them. The tables were so fast it was hard to keep from over running your position or either being so afraid to turn the ball loose, you come up short.

Also, today's style of playing is run half a dozen and then play a safe and then hope your opponent misses and then you get ball in hand and run the rest.

I prefer the old style of playing when the tables were a bit slower and you had to have a "stroke" to get around the table and I also prefer two-shot rollout over the one-foul, ball in hand style of today. Two-shot makes the game a lot more interesting and exciting to watch and play.

Any old schoolers out there or am I alone?
Click to expand...

You are absolutely correct. Today's rules allow the game to be only about 20% of it's {true} potential, and the players are making about 10% [of their potential]......maybe it's just a coincidence. ;) 'The Game is trying to Teach' ....and there's some "teaching issues" regarding the game's rules and equipment...it's too bad how much it's devolved.
 
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