I have a problem...Bustamante vs TAR 26 Winner Back to Back. Opinions wanted

[Hungarian]

Personally I have watched too much pool lately. But that's just me. However, I'd be torn not to buy the Bustie match.


From a business perspective I truly believe waiting will build more anticipation and interest.

I say take your time and do it right...

Ever heard the young bull / old bull story? Two bulls standing on a hill top looking out over a heard of sexy female cows. Young bull says to the old bull..."let's run down there and have relations with one of those beautiful creatures.....old bull looks at the young bull and shakes his head and says...son...let's walk down there and have relations with them all.

 

[Joe T]

Johnny & Shane vs Busty & Orcollo! I'll pay fiddy

Back to reality, I buy all the streams but would consider not buying back to back at $35 for 2 weekends (probably not, lol) but I'm sure a lot would so i'm not sure what to tell ya bud, keep thinking & asking and maybe something will pop up.

 

[King T]

It will work!

It will work..., been in Sales and Marketing for 20yrs, this has what people want and people will pay for what they want no matter what.

 

[SeanC]

If they can play the same week, do a one weekend deal with all 3 players involved. 3 nights, three games, $50 bucks for all three nights. Or see below...

First, do the math and increase the payout to make it more interesting for the players.

As for the format, it will have to change of course. For example: first night a small tournament with all 3 players involved. The worst player is out. $25 for the night.

Second & third nights: a 10-ball run to 70(?)... 35 each night. $20 for each night.

If the stakes are high, players will play, people will pay, and you'll make money.

 

[Nick B]

Shane + Earl vs Alex + Efren = $75.00

I know Efren is not there. Do them both. Prove the model big guy. No discount for both but play loop of both matches for those who bought both for 3 days.

The airline industry only does one thing right. They make their best customers pay the most (business and first class). Who cares how many points they give me when I'm paying 3-10X what the kids in the back are paying.

Nick

Johnny & Shane vs Busty & Orcollo! I'll pay fiddy

Back to reality, I buy all the streams but would consider not buying back to back at $35 for 2 weekends (probably not, lol) but I'm sure a lot would so i'm not sure what to tell ya bud, keep thinking & asking and maybe something will pop up.

 

[westcoast]

i don't mean to sound like a hater and i like archer and i know he is a living legend but I avoid his videos on youtube because of his slow play. He must be told in a PPV format, he needs to speed his game up! Again im sorry if i sound like a hater and I don't mean to piss anyone off.

I feel the same way about Archer. That's why I keep asking about a shot clock

 

[JCIN]

Thanks for all the feed back guys. I appreciate it and there have been good points raised. Thanks for taking the time to share them.

At this moment here is where I am at:

Providing the details get worked out which I fully anticipate they will we will probably do the Bustamante match.

We might do a package deal for both matches but that will require some study. An alternative that I like is maybe cutting the US Open 10 Ball PPV Package price by a hefty amount or doing more days free to make it easier for people who want to see everything. Maybe only PPV the last couple days for $25 or something instead of the $50 or so we were going to charge for the whole event.

If I can make the numbers work I would like to combine a cheaper US Open 10 Ball for $25 with a TAR 26/27 package for $60 which would be $35 savings for everything. That means basically if you buy everything you get Bustamante for free compared to our original pricing. My brain is still pudding at this point trying to figure everything out so don't hold me to this yet I could be missing something and have to talk to others about it.

My gut tells me based on experience that when you get a chance with someone like Bustamante you take it. Thanks for all the posts. I'll know more in the next day or so.

 

[JCIN]

I feel the same way about Archer. That's why I keep asking about a shot clock

I am meeting with Johnny when he gets to Vegas and will talk to him about the concerns with speed of play. Johnny is a pro and will listen. I would prefer not to get into the logistics of a shot clock if I dont have to but if it becomes an issue and we have to I'll pay someone to sit there with a stop watch. Slow play is a big personal pet peeve of mine as well.

 

[JDB]

Thanks for all the feed back guys. I appreciate it and there have been good points raised. Thanks for taking the time to share them.

At this moment here is where I am at:

Providing the details get worked out which I fully anticipate they will we will probably do the Bustamante match.

We might do a package deal for both matches but that will require some study. An alternative that I like is maybe cutting the US Open 10 Ball PPV Package price by a hefty amount or doing more days free to make it easier for people who want to see everything. Maybe only PPV the last couple days for $25 or something instead of the $50 or so we were going to charge for the whole event.

If I can make the numbers work I would like to combine a cheaper US Open 10 Ball for $25 with a TAR 26/27 package for $60 which would be $35 savings for everything. That means basically if you buy everything you get Bustamante for free compared to our original pricing. My brain is still pudding at this point trying to figure everything out so don't hold me to this yet I could be missing something and have to talk to others about it.

My gut tells me based on experience that when you get a chance with someone like Bustamante you take it. Thanks for all the posts. I'll know more in the next day or so.

Just my opinion, but under the old format where players and/or backers put up the prize to play for and you handle logistics, this would be a no brainer because the risk is spread out.

However, in the new format, you are taking all of the risk. With the new format I am suprised that every pro that will be in Vegas during that time is not knocking down your door to play because it is a free roll for them.

Since you are absorbing all of the risk, I would have a hard time doing it if I had second thoughts about breaking even, much less making somewhat of a profit.

Again, I am approaching this from a business standpoint and not a pool fan standoint; however, with me absorbing all of the risk, I would probably pass if I had any second thoughts at all about making somewhat of a profit.

Probably not the most popular opinion but it is what I would do as a business person.

 

[dr9ball]

Do them both.

Perhaps you could archive them and allow people to watch them when they want to. That way someone could wait a couple of weeks and then pay to watch the archived stream. The archived streams could also be discounted vs. the live stream. Just an idea.

 

[softshot]

I think TAR should sell 12 month subscriptions.. that gets you all the live stuff plus access to the entire TAR library on demand so to speak...

go protected cloud like amazon does on my kindle fire.. when the door is open you can watch all you want.. subscription is up door shuts..



if you want my money... thats the way to get it.... I'd pay $100 a year for that

 

[softshot]

Or you could go single sale from the cloud...like steam.. I buy an event for x dollars. And I get.onlone access to that video..all of it from now on.. my problem with the ppv model.. you guys are putting.up 30+ hours of footage in 3 days... I can't Watch that in 1 sitting. I got shit to do...that dosen't mean I don't want to see it all

I know that won't help much this weekend..but might be something to think about

 

[krychekrowe]

I want a TAR Bar! Watching a game you love alone is ok, but when you get a couple of friends/pool addicts in the same room with a big screen tv we are talking gooooood times! Imagine moving the people in the chat room to different TAR Bars across the globe, having them pay some entry fee/donations which is passed on to our main man Justin. The social aspect of sports is important! TAR Bar!

 

[JCIN]

I think TAR should sell 12 month subscriptions.. that gets you all the live stuff plus access to the entire TAR library on demand so to speak...

go protected cloud like amazon does on my kindle fire.. when the door is open you can watch all you want.. subscription is up door shuts..



if you want my money... thats the way to get it.... I'd pay $100 a year for that

I would love to do Video On Demand from the Amazon cloud service and some kind of membership deal. I just dont know how to do it. Maybe I'm not asking the right questions but the people I have talked to tell me how to do everything but what I need. The Amazon hosting is cheap enough so we dont risk owing more for storage and bandwidth than we make but I am a caveman when it comes to setting up the back end to handle payments and building the user interface to view the videos.

I agree 100% that VOD is the magic bullet.

 

[JCIN]

Just my opinion, but under the old format where players and/or backers put up the prize to play for and you handle logistics, this would be a no brainer because the risk is spread out.

However, in the new format, you are taking all of the risk. With the new format I am suprised that every pro that will be in Vegas during that time is not knocking down your door to play because it is a free roll for them.

Since you are absorbing all of the risk, I would have a hard time doing it if I had second thoughts about breaking even, much less making somewhat of a profit.

Again, I am approaching this from a business standpoint and not a pool fan standoint; however, with me absorbing all of the risk, I would probably pass if I had any second thoughts at all about making somewhat of a profit.

Probably not the most popular opinion but it is what I would do as a business person.

From a purely business stand point you are right.

From a purely business standpoint pro pool in the U.S. shouldn't exist at all.

Some of us are just too dumb to quit.

 

[Fast Lenny]

I would love to do Video On Demand from the Amazon cloud service and some kind of membership deal. I just dont know how to do it. Maybe I'm not asking the right questions but the people I have talked to tell me how to do everything but what I need. The Amazon hosting is cheap enough so we dont risk owing more for storage and bandwidth than we make but I am a caveman when it comes to setting up the back end to handle payments and building the user interface to view the videos.

I agree 100% that VOD is the magic bullet.

Does Amazon work like Youtube where you can have videos there, it gives a short preview and if you want the whole thing you can pay $2.99 or something? I am not sure how much either of these sites take but I assume its as simple as uploading to Youtube and setting your price along with your payment info, then you get sent a check or something. I could be wrong and would not be the first time but I believe that is how it works, its not your own custom VOD but it still enables people to buy your stuff and no hosting cost, they probably take half the money though. I see Inside Pool doing that on Youtube and actually the movie industry too is on Youtube, you can watch a flick on there for $2-$3.

 

[JDB]

From a purely business stand point you are right.

From a purely business standpoint pro pool in the U.S. shouldn't exist at all.

Some of us are just too dumb to quit.

Well, as long as you are going in "eyes wide open" then you have to do what you want to do (within reason).

I think you guys do an awesome job but I am just not sure that the market is big enough to make any kind of money. I am sure that is not a startling revelation to you.

I agree with your first two points; however, I am skeptical on the third. I just think you want to make it work very badly, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

Good luck, many are rooting for you.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Just a question... Why are you assuming that too many streams back to back will reduce viewership? Yes, I know it sounds logical, but have you had this experience before and lost viewership? Playing the other side for a moment, perhaps people are dying to see as many streams as possible, and want them every weekend?

Maybe its worth doing this for the experience of knowing if many streams in a short period will reduce, increase, or not affect veiwership.

 

[JCIN]

Does Amazon work like Youtube where you can have videos there, it gives a short preview and if you want the whole thing you can pay $2.99 or something? I am not sure how much either of these sites take but I assume its as simple as uploading to Youtube and setting your price along with your payment info, then you get sent a check or something. I could be wrong and would not be the first time but I believe that is how it works, its not your own custom VOD but it still enables people to buy your stuff and no hosting cost, they probably take half the money though. I see Inside Pool doing that on Youtube and actually the movie industry too is on Youtube, you can watch a flick on there for $2-$3.

The big problem that jumped out to me when I looked into the services you describe is that you have a third party taking a big chunk of your money. The only way to really make anything is lots and lots of buys. My experience in pool tells me that just doesnt work. Add in the fact that if you do anything that third party doesn't like their TOS basically says they can tell you to blow and keep whatever they want money wise.

Perfect example is Ustreams PPV service. Sure it looks all cool and would be easy for a regular Ustreamer to start doing PPV's but they take half of the gross and make you wait up to 60 days to actually get paid for the work you did. No thanks. Its like the CafePress model of merchandise. easy to do almost impossible to actually make any money at unless you are doing crazy volume. I looked at the YouTube program for VOD and was not that impressed with how you actually get paid and what the cut is. Sure something is better than nothing but I'm of the school that I would rather just wait for the right price than give something away.

I found a model that an independent film studio put together using the Amazon cloud service as a host. The price for storage and bandwidth is dirt cheap compared to everything else I have seen. The catch is to capitalize on that you have to build your own back end, user interface and payment processing. Basically you just use them to host and serve video. You build the structure that takes money, catalogs the content and allows people to navigate that catalog. Then you keep the vast majority of gross sales.

All I need is someone that can do all that a reasonable price that I can trust not to flake out on me cause their cat got an upset tummy. I'll catch that particular roadrunner someday.

 

[JCIN]

Well, as long as you are going in "eyes wide open" then you have to do what you want to do (within reason).

I think you guys do an awesome job but I am just not sure that the market is big enough to make any kind of money. I am sure that is not a startling revelation to you.

One day I tried to think of how many people I know in the entire pool industry who made $100K a year. I dont mean gross sales, I mean an individual that personally makes $100K a year income from the pool industry. I ran out of names before I ran out of fingers to count them on. If I had any illusions about what the current market is like they were gone after that little moment.

What I do believe in though is there is a very small market for a certain content that will pay to consume it and that there is room to grow that ultra-niche through several things that I am just not good at. So the answer to me is keep digging and look for the resources that will allow us to grow that niche.

All I need is 1000 people in the world that will pay to watch the best in the world play. We started with maybe a hundred and I have seen it grow so I know it can be done.