I want to clear something up!

[The Baby's Arm]

The parallel portrayed isn't even close.



And then, too, because of the new breed of moronic posters that seems to appear from time to time, the forum doesn't project a comfortable environment for pro players like John Schmidt. After a while, it becomes quite difficult to read the good posts when you have to wade through the multitude of negative ones.

Kick 'em when they're up, and kick 'em when they're down. Sad, but true.

JAM

The parallel portrayed isn't even close? lol, it is the exact same thing. I've played in individual golf tournaments that had a calcutta also and it is the exact SAME thing. Why do pool players get to ask for jelly, when golfers can't ? And by the way, this particular post has nothing to do with John. I've never bought him in a calcutta. I was just stating that, in general, some of the players think that just because you bet on them and made money then you are obligated to give them some "jelly" which is ridiculous. Like I said, no player that I have ever bet on and lost has offered to give me back part of my losings and they shouldn't because it was my bet. Conversely when I win then they shouldn't ask for part of it because it was my bet.

 

[Mike Templeton]

The thing I hate the most is when you buy someone and they place in the money and then want a tip for getting in the money! That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I can't tell you how many times my team was bought in a golf calcutta ( in which the payouts are much larger) and we ended up winning. I would never think of asking for a tip, or handout, just because we made someone else money. We always try to buy our team and at least buy half back, but to ask someone for a tip is insane. I bought Tony Watson in a calcutta one time, among others, and he ended up splitting first with Shannon Daulton. I think I ended up making about $75 after all that I had in the calcutta. He had the nerve to come up to me and ask for a tip. I told him if he would give me part of the amount that he won in the tournament then I would give him part of the calcutta. If the player puts nothing up then why should he get part of the money?

Baby's Arm,

I had Shannon in the same tournament calcutta (the one at Murphy's) and he did exactly the same thing as Tony after not buying half of himself. I did give Shannon a little "jelly", though. He needed a little at the time.

If I'm not mistaken, that is the night that the police stopped the tournament because of a law in Athens that does not allow pool after midnight on Sunday. It was one of Red Willis' tournaments, and everyone was trying to get him to rush the matches, but the police came in and stopped the action in the middle of the finals. It was noble of you to take a split. I think that Tony had to be beaten twice.

Mike

 

[JAM]

The parallel portrayed isn't even close? lol, it is the exact same thing. I've played in individual golf tournaments that had a calcutta also and it is the exact SAME thing. Why do pool players get to ask for jelly, when golfers can't ? And by the way, this particular post has nothing to do with John. I've never bought him in a calcutta. I was just stating that, in general, some of the players think that just because you bet on them and made money then you are obligated to give them some "jelly" which is ridiculous. Like I said, no player that I have ever bet on and lost has offered to give me back part of my losings and they shouldn't because it was my bet. Conversely when I win then they shouldn't ask for part of it because it was my bet.

No, The Baby's Arm, it is NOT the exact same thing. There is no parallel when comparing pool to golf, whether there is a calcutta in existence or not.

You are entitled to your opinion. I just happen to disagree with it.

I can remember a time on the road when shooters would give a little "jelly" to a friendly bystander, just for being in the right place at the right time.

One roadster I know won $5,000 using a stranger's cue stick who just happened to be sitting on the rail, and after he collected his winnings, he immediately gave the railbird cue-owner a 10-percent take, $500. Of course, he did not have to do so, as there was no agreement in force, but he did it because that's the kind of spirit some pool players have within their being. Would you call it a "tip"? Would you call it a "jelly roll"? Would you call it good "pool etiquette"? Depends on what you think is proper.

After the conclusion of the Mid-Atlantic 9-Ball tournament held at Q-Masters in Norfolk a few years ago, I witnessed a match I will never forget.

North Carolinian Hotshot Michael Coltrain rose up from the B side of the chart and defeated hotseat-holder Keith McCready in an extended race for the finals. Though it was a bummer for Keith to be the bridesmaid, he didn't mind too much after he pocketed his second-place winnings.

With the tournament concluded, a short time later, Sam Monday from North Carolina and Keith engaged in a loud barkfest, hoping to get in action. The majority of the people in the house thought Keith would lose his pants, feeling no pain in the wee hours of the morning. Thus, a slew of backers lined up to form a backers committee for Sammy Boy, and they wanted to post it up as high as Keith was willing to go.

When the dust settled, Keith and Sammy played a set of 9-ball, 13 ahead, with Sammy getting spotted the wild 8, and it was for a very large chunk of change. I glanced on over at Michael Coltrain, licking his chops, thinking he made a wise investment in his fellow North Carolinian. My nerves began to wear, and it sure didn't help matters when after several long and grueling hours, Sammy surged forward and got Keith stuck 11 games, going to 13. Visions of traveling the long trek back home with empty pockets began to dance in my head.

Now, some seasoned players are capable at any moment of catching a second wind, whereas others sometimes lose their endurance and flatten out, and this is what happened. It was the best comeback I have ever witnessed, bar none, and there was a new Keith McCready shooting. He trampled poor old Sam Monday in what seemed like minutes and ended up beating him, 13 ahead, a 24-game swing.

The crowd dwindled, and most of the backers committee members soon departed. Sam Monday looked like he had seen a ghost and just sat there alone with his stick between his legs. He had given it his all and just about got there, and for whatever reason, the winds shifted. Keith, a veteran road player, knew that look on Sammy Boy's face. Though they were combatants at one moment, maybe it was the "old school" mentality that brought Keith over to him, handing him several C-notes. You see, Keith's outlook is that you should NEVER leave a pool player broke.

Now, I only bring up this long and drawn-out story to illustrate the sentiment and logic that exists with some pool players. Keith felt that Sam Monday was very deserving to get a few dollars in his pockets after his fine performance. I don't know a whole lot of players who still do that today, but it does occur more often than you may know.

Would Sam have given Keith a "jelly" if he beat him? I don't know. However, I do know this is an accepted practice that I have seen exhibited by some players. So, in sum, The Baby's Arm, there are some players who think that if they put on a good performance, even though they didn't buy half of themselves in the calcutta, that they may be deserving of a small tip. Though it is not a written rule to do so, I have seen it more often than not. JMHO, FWIW!

JAM

 

[Nostroke]

i noticed your thread about me quiting in the middle of a match and you said i dont know the details so maybe john will fill us in.so i will, i also noticed how you said when you buy an idiot thats what you get so i thought i would say i really dont appreciate thatbut anyway it was not the middle of a match the score was 10-3 in favor of my opponent and i had just missed a combo and left a easy out so i shook his hand .one more thing as you can see i dont use proper punctuation and can barely type 10 words so i never write anything but when i see someone taking a cheap shot at making me look like a bad guy it pisses me off because its normally from someone who cant play and is jealous of anyone thats good at anything so i kind of understand.well take it easy everyone and ill see you at derby.

Ah That is certainly different from the way I heard it and that idiot quote was not directed at you.

 

[The Baby's Arm]

Baby's Arm,

I had Shannon in the same tournament calcutta (the one at Murphy's) and he did exactly the same thing as Tony after not buying half of himself. I did give Shannon a little "jelly", though. He needed a little at the time.

If I'm not mistaken, that is the night that the police stopped the tournament because of a law in Athens that does not allow pool after midnight on Sunday. It was one of Red Willis' tournaments, and everyone was trying to get him to rush the matches, but the police came in and stopped the action in the middle of the finals. It was noble of you to take a split. I think that Tony had to be beaten twice.

Mike

Hey Mike,
That was the exact tournament. I remember it was a good weekend. I think the scenario you had was right, but I don't mind splitting with friends especially when they were going to have to hurry the matches along. And I have given Bruce and Stevie a little throw back before when they made me money. I just don't like the fact that some players think you are obligated to give them some when you win and they don't offer to give you some when you lose.

 

[The Baby's Arm]

No, The Baby's Arm, it is NOT the exact same thing. There is no parallel when comparing pool to golf, whether there is a calcutta in existence or not.

You are entitled to your opinion. I just happen to disagree with it.

I can remember a time on the road when shooters would give a little "jelly" to a friendly bystander, just for being in the right place at the right time.

One roadster I know won $5,000 using a stranger's cue stick who just happened to be sitting on the rail, and after he collected his winnings, he immediately gave the railbird cue-owner a 10-percent take, $500. Of course, he did not have to do so, as there was no agreement in force, but he did it because that's the kind of spirit some pool players have within their being. Would you call it a "tip"? Would you call it a "jelly roll"? Would you call it good "pool etiquette"? Depends on what you think is proper.

After the conclusion of the Mid-Atlantic 9-Ball tournament held at Q-Masters in Norfolk a few years ago, I witnessed a match I will never forget.

North Carolinian Hotshot Michael Coltrain rose up from the B side of the chart and defeated hotseat-holder Keith McCready in an extended race for the finals. Though it was a bummer for Keith to be the bridesmaid, he didn't mind too much after he pocketed his second-place winnings.

With the tournament concluded, a short time later, Sam Monday from North Carolina and Keith engaged in a loud barkfest, hoping to get in action. The majority of the people in the house thought Keith would lose his pants, feeling no pain in the wee hours of the morning. Thus, a slew of backers lined up to form a backers committee for Sammy Boy, and they wanted to post it up as high as Keith was willing to go.

When the dust settled, Keith and Sammy played a set of 9-ball, 13 ahead, with Sammy getting spotted the wild 8, and it was for a very large chunk of change. I glanced on over at Michael Coltrain, licking his chops, thinking he made a wise investment in his fellow North Carolinian. My nerves began to wear, and it sure didn't help matters when after several long and grueling hours, Sammy surged forward and got Keith stuck 11 games, going to 13. Visions of traveling the long trek back home with empty pockets began to dance in my head.

Now, some seasoned players are capable at any moment of catching a second wind, whereas others sometimes lose their endurance and flatten out, and this is what happened. It was the best comeback I have ever witnessed, bar none, and there was a new Keith McCready shooting. He trampled poor old Sam Monday in what seemed like minutes and ended up beating him, 13 ahead, a 24-game swing.

The crowd dwindled, and most of the backers committee members soon departed. Sam Monday looked like he had seen a ghost and just sat there alone with his stick between his legs. He had given it his all and just about got there, and for whatever reason, the winds shifted. Keith, a veteran road player, knew that look on Sammy Boy's face. Though they were combatants at one moment, maybe it was the "old school" mentality that brought Keith over to him, handing him several C-notes. You see, Keith's outlook is that you should NEVER leave a pool player broke.

Now, I only bring up this long and drawn-out story to illustrate the sentiment and logic that exists with some pool players. Keith felt that Sam Monday was very deserving to get a few dollars in his pockets after his fine performance. I don't know a whole lot of players who still do that today, but it does occur more often than you may know.

Would Sam have given Keith a "jelly" if he beat him? I don't know. However, I do know this is an accepted practice that I have seen exhibited by some players. So, in sum, The Baby's Arm, there are some players who think that if they put on a good performance, even though they didn't buy half of themselves in the calcutta, that they may be deserving of a small tip. Though it is not a written rule to do so, I have seen it more often than not. JMHO, FWIW!

JAM

I've seen it a lot too Jam. I just don't agree with it. I've won people a lot more than I have lost them, in golf and pool. Never once have I ever asked for "jelly". Its just kind of a double standard I guess. I lost $1000 betting on Tony in Greenville against LilJohn a couple of months earlier and then when I booked a $75 winner on buyinig him in a calcutta he wants some jelly. Now how much sense does that make?

 

[Ky Boy]

Jam,
From reading your post about Keith and Sam's match I can see why Keith done what he did. VERY COOL!!!!!!!!! However, I can see The Baby's Arm point as well. I would not give up any of the $75 win if I too had lost $1000 recently on that player. So Jam, for my IPO, please tell me why players do not buy at least half of themselves in the calcutta. Anytime I buy someone in a local tournament and they don't want half of themselves back it makes me think they are not playing well or must know something I don't. I usually feel more comforatble when a player buys part of themselves back. I would think the player puts forth more effort if they had something invested beside the entry fee. I am not saying this is not a good practice but is it something that shoud be expected?

 

[JAM]

I've seen it a lot too Jam. I just don't agree with it. I've won people a lot more than I have lost them, in golf and pool. Never once have I ever asked for "jelly". Its just kind of a double standard I guess. I lost $1000 betting on Tony in Greenville against LilJohn a couple of months earlier and then when I booked a $75 winner on buyinig him in a calcutta he wants some jelly. Now how much sense does that make?

Being a backer and a player is two different animals. A backer's strength lies in the amount of dough they can pile up, and a player's strength is showcased by their performance on the table.

The risk of being a backer, unless you have a preapproved agreement that the player is taking on a percentage of the loss, is that you run the risk of losing 100 percent of the dough.

The risk of being a player is that you may play your heart out all night long and come home empty.

The backer and player do make strange bedfellows, but when it works out, i.e., a win, it's all fine and dandy.

Some folks get funny when they're cutting up that money, and the bigger the money, the funnier they get.

Without getting into specifics, we've got a player in my neck of the woods that lives a double standard as it pertains to reciprocation, but that's the topic of another thread.

If a player has an existing rapport with another player, a backer, then the old jelly may come forthwith. It's an accepted practice.

With calcuttas, there is a school of thought that the player is deserving of a small "gift," if you can call it that. If the calcutta winner does not desire to grant the player a token for their fine performance, then that is the prerogative of the calcutta winner. I don't run into this school of thought very often, though, in my experience.

JAM

 

[ironman]

I've seen it a lot too Jam. I just don't agree with it. I've won people a lot more than I have lost them, in golf and pool. Never once have I ever asked for "jelly". Its just kind of a double standard I guess. I lost $1000 betting on Tony in Greenville against LilJohn a couple of months earlier and then when I booked a $75 winner on buyinig him in a calcutta he wants some jelly. Now how much sense does that make?

I guess I look at it a little differently.
If someone steers me into action and i win, I give him 15% minimum. Why, the steer got me there and couldn't have gotten it without him.
If the houseman stays open all night to let us play and I win,15% minimum, because I couldn't have done it without him.
If I participate in the calcutta and buy a few players, and say 1 of the four bought hits the board, that is my fault, not the winners. I tip him because I wouldn't have come out that well without him. However, calcuttas are a little different. They have the option to buy in as well. If a player comes to me and just can't afford it, I will tell him not to worry about it and just give a good effort. 15% minimum.
The way I look at it, could I have done it without him or did he contribute to the effort? If he did, 15% minimum.

 

[JAM]

Jam,
From reading your post about Keith and Sam's match I can see why Keith done what he did. VERY COOL!!!!!!!!! However, I can see The Baby's Arm point as well. I would not give up any of the $75 win if I too had lost $1000 recently on that player. So Jam, for my IPO, please tell me why players do not buy at least half of themselves in the calcutta. Anytime I buy someone in a local tournament and they don't want half of themselves back it makes me think they are not playing well or must know something I don't. I usually feel more comforatble when a player buys part of themselves back. I would think the player puts forth more effort if they had something invested beside the entry fee. I am not saying this is not a good practice but is it something that shoud be expected?

Maybe I've been out in the trenches for too long now, but the two incidents The Baby's Arm mentioned are just that, two separate incidents.

Unless The Baby's Arm had an agreement with Tony that Tony would owe some of the monies lost in a previous match, then I would view them as separate and apart. However, as with all transactions of this type, it is imperative to establish an understanding beforehand. This sure does avoid a lot of misunderstandings in the long run.

As far as Keith and Sam go, I have seen Keith do this with many players when he has won big. It's just the way he does it. In reverse circumstances, there are some players who do reciprocate in this manner with Keith as well when he loses.

One example I can remember is when Jose Parica backed Keith against Jason Kirkwood a couple years ago for a large chunk of change. Keith lost it all. Jose was holding pretty good, being that he made money in a tournament.

Not so long ago, we ran into Jose Parica up at the $25,000-added Joss Tour Finale held at Turning Stone Casino in Verona, NY, and he was, shall I say, busted and disgusted. Keith and a group of comrades made a big score on the craps table, around $15,000 I think. Keith saw poor old Jose with empty pockets and immediately gave him four or five black chips, which put a smile on Jose's face. I was glad to see Keith return the favor.

Keith didn't owe Jose a dime for losing his money against Jason Kirkwood, and Jose didn't put up any monies to throw the dice at Turning Stone Casino. It's just an unspoken agreement that exists with some players. And believe me, Keith and Jose are not the lone soldiers in this regard.

I liken the calcutta argument to this same school of thought. However, if the calcutta winner is a little green or doesn't understand the logic in tipping a player for their fine performance, then, again, that is most definitely their prerogative. JMHO, FWIW!

JAM

 

[Al-fahl Amir]

now lets just say for arguments sake that what your saying is true because it could be because shane was a guy who i considered a friend although i had beaten him out of a few hundred playing 1-hole giving him like 10-3 so you can understand he did not know much about pool but i would bet my life he understood the ramifications of telling someone i would dump.now again youwant people to believe that i would send someone outside to tell a bunch of strangers that i want to dump someone for 17 grand if i was stupid enough to actually say something like that it sure would not be to five people that i have just met.and another thing you say you have not said bad things about me but you have called me a trecherous clown and someone that would dump and yes you did basically say you would kick my ass when i confronted you in athens so i figure you are mad at me about something i just hope we can let it all go..one more thing i will take a lie detecter test for 1000 and when i pass which i will i will then take two aside at tanglewood cc in my home town of milton and play you golf for 1000 the reason i want to play there is thats one of the few courses i can break 85

If your an 80's shooter "The Book" said he will play you some for a chunk of change. If you need a referral on how "The Book" plays you can ask Archer.

 

[The Baby's Arm]

Maybe I've been out in the trenches for too long now, but the two incidents The Baby's Arm mentioned are just that, two separate incidents.

Unless The Baby's Arm had an agreement with Tony that Tony would owe some of the monies lost in a previous match, then I would view them as separate and apart. However, as with all transactions of this type, it is imperative to establish an understanding beforehand. This sure does avoid a lot of misunderstandings in the long run.

As far as Keith and Sam go, I have seen Keith do this with many players when he has won big. It's just the way he does it. In reverse circumstances, there are some players who do reciprocate in this manner with Keith as well when he loses.

One example I can remember is when Jose Parica backed Keith against Jason Kirkwood a couple years ago for a large chunk of change. Keith lost it all. Jose was holding pretty good, being that he made money in a tournament.

Not so long ago, we ran into Jose Parica up at the $25,000-added Joss Tour Finale held at Turning Stone Casino in Verona, NY, and he was, shall I say, busted and disgusted. Keith and a group of comrades made a big score on the craps table, around $15,000 I think. Keith saw poor old Jose with empty pockets and immediately gave him four or five black chips, which put a smile on Jose's face. I was glad to see Keith return the favor.

Keith didn't owe Jose a dime for losing his money against Jason Kirkwood, and Jose didn't put up any monies to throw the dice at Turning Stone Casino. It's just an unspoken agreement that exists with some players. And believe me, Keith and Jose are not the lone soldiers in this regard.

I liken the calcutta argument to this same school of thought. However, if the calcutta winner is a little green or doesn't understand the logic in tipping a player for their fine performance, then, again, that is most definitely their prerogative. JMHO, FWIW!

JAM

I just fail to understand why I should feel obligated to tip anyone that I put up the money to bet on. I ask you again, why is a pool calcutta different than a golf calcutta? Why should I not get a tip when I win someone money in golf? Is it because golfers dont go bust as often as pool players? When I make a bet on a ball game and win, should I send Tom Brady a tip for playing good? Makes no sense what so ever, why pool is any different.

 

[Ky Boy]

I just fail to understand why I should feel obligated to tip anyone that I put up the money to bet on. I ask you again, why is a pool calcutta different than a golf calcutta? Why should I not get a tip when I win someone money in golf? Is it because golfers dont go bust as often as pool players? When I make a bet on a ball game and win, should I send Tom Brady a tip for playing good? Makes no sense what so ever, why pool is any different.

I agree with you on this. I think pool players expect too much sometimes. If this sport were as big as some others I think egos would be checked at the door more often. I have seen many players become totally obsurd over not receiving money from the calcutta. I understand Jam's 'old' school thinking but believe that is at the buyer's discretion to give 'jelly' or not.

 

[OldHasBeen]

My Old - Steer Percentage agreements.....

While On The Road for more than 20 years, I had many occasions to find some good steers (that did what I told them) and some bad ones (that couldn't keep their mouths shut).
A steer is someone local that is supposed to know who, where & when there is action in this given area.
Most of the steers I've seen are just trying to get you in action and don't know the first thing about The Hustle. They would just as soon see you go play $10 & $20 Bar 9-Ball than go after the cash from the bigger scores.
Many times I had to just say, Listen - Tell me who will lose the most and where he is and I'll take it from there.
My financial agreement with all steers was consistent over the years. 10% for any total score up to $1,000 - 15% for $1K to $5K & 20% for anything over.
I would also always let them know that I realize that they might try to Double Steer me and that would be OK with me. You see they never really knew exactly how I played and many times they would just go by what they were seeing.
I'll never forget one time in Fort Wayne, IN and was making pretty good money with this steer for over 5 weeks. He says there is a real good game & sucker in a little town about 30 miles away. They must have gone to some pretty good trouble and expense to set this all up. Anyway, as I go in the bar and see who it is, I'm tickled because it is a good player from Arkansas that I had just busted about 6 months earlier.
Now the steer is trying to get things going and the player is trying to get with me to get an arrangement to dump the steer that I figured was also the backer in this situation.
I finally got tired of all the maneuvering and just told them both that I was getting a bad headache and would be glad to play the next day at the Fort Wayne bowling alley that had real nice Gold Growns. The steer still didn't know we knew each other.
The next day they both show up and I win about $2,200 and the steer has nerve enough to want his end. He says that I had said that it was OK to Double Steer so he should still have something coming.
I knew he was broke and the player was probably stranded - SO - I threw $400 on the table and said - Split it up anyway you like & Thank You.

Man, I sure like telling all these old road/war stories - Now it's up to you (the reader) to figure if it is all B**S*** or not.

Ps. - I never believed in "Jelly" just because I won - because I never asked or got any if I lost. But if I ever busted someone and knew he was broke, I always offered a "Walking Stick".

TY & GL

 

[Black-Balled]

... but believe that is at the buyer's discretion to give 'jelly' or not.

true- As illustrated in the KM/ Parica exchange, what comes around goes around. Do what you must, but think about the future implications.

KY BOY...that's a funny name...

 

[Rude Dog]

Is it because golfers dont go bust as often as pool players?

That's probably a good enough reason right there. I've followed this debate since the start and you answered your question with that question above. Pool players, for the most part, stay broke. You shouldn't feel obligated to give them anything when they win money for you in a calcutta, especially the $75 you mentioned before, but when the time is right, a "jelly roll" goes a long way. As far as why a player wouldn't buy themselves in a calcutta, well, sometimes they just don't have the money to do so. I played in a tournament once where I bought myself for $40, nobody knew me, which was nice , and Buddy Hall went for about $1,600. Keith also played in this tournament and I'm guessing he went for at least a $1,000. I don't know if either of them bought themselves but if they did, they lost money because I won the tournament and got $1,700, maybe $1,800 back from the calcutta. Another time, I sat and watched Keith go broke at Underdog's place before Hard Times opened in Bellflower one night and afterward, he and I went to the Commerce Club and I staked him playing Pai Gow Poker. Just for the action, that's all it was. Needless to say, it wasn't Keith's night and I went broke. A few months went by and I ran into Keith again at Yankee Doodles in Long Beach and without saying a word, he handed me what I had lost, which was about $1,100. The night I went to the card club with Keith was the first time I had met him, the night he paid me back was the 2nd time. So, I know what Keith's character is all about, he knows what it's like to be on both ends of the pool players life because he's been there. So, back to the "jelly", sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do Baby's Arm, help a guy out when he's down, that's all. No, if you win $75, of course the guy has nothing coming. Unless he's hungry, buy him a cheeseburger. Wow, I didn't plan on writing this much, oh well, that's all I got to say on this matter. Peace, John.

 

[watchez]

I get the impression from Baby's Arm that his real problem lies in a playing 'asking' for a jelly. Most likely Baby's Arm has given a jelly to a player before but the offense lies in when a player acts like it is his right. In the few stories that JAM related, the receiving player never came up and asked for it. That is the BIG difference. Compare it to a waitress/bartender asking for a tip. There is no written rule that you should tip 15% for food, 20-30% for alcohol but it is generally done. Now if a waitress asked you where was her tip, you would be offended & most likely not give one. People who are in the restaurant/service industry usually tip more to each other feeling that a good tip will come back to them. Same thing goes in pool.

Here is my heart warming story to add to all of this: I had seen Coy Lee Nicholson play in a few tournaments & was impressed by his play. Before a tournament I approached him & asked if he was going to buy half himself in the calcutta. He told me that he really didn't have the money to do so. I struck up a deal that I would put the money up for his player's half and give him 20%. I believe I paid $150 for 1/2 of Coy Lee and he came in 5-6th place in the tournament and I got back $110. When I tried to offer him the agreed 20% he immediately said that he refused to take it because I had actually lost money. When I tried to let him know that a deal is a deal, he still refused. I am not trying to embarrass Coy Lee but I felt that even though it was only a small amount of money he could've used it. Just goes to show you that not all pool players are alike. Coy Lee didn't know me from Adam except as maybe a recognizable face (and probably still doesn't) and still did what was probably the right thing.

 

[Snapshot9]

I just fail to understand why I should feel obligated to tip anyone that I put up the money to bet on. I ask you again, why is a pool calcutta different than a golf calcutta? Why should I not get a tip when I win someone money in golf? Is it because golfers dont go bust as often as pool players? When I make a bet on a ball game and win, should I send Tom Brady a tip for playing good? Makes no sense what so ever, why pool is any different.

I do not think that golf is a good comparison to Pool, but I bet that
a lot of PGA caddies get a 'jelly' on top of a standard percentage cut
when their guy wins a big tournament.

If you win at the Vegas tables, do you tip the dealer? He didn't put up
any money, but you won, and he dealt.

And here's one for you, does a waitress deserve a tip anymore than
the young handicapped kid that carried out your groceries to the car,
and put them in your car for you?

A jelly is a recognition of a good effort that benefited you. And yes,
sometimes you might just be helping someone out that needs it, and
you know they do. I never send anyone home completely busted. I will
throw them something. Maybe not a lot, but something. I have paid
for cabs for a player before so he could get home, or so he could get
something to eat. I know what is like to be busted flat, and with no
more sure money coming to you for quite awhile.

 

[ironman]

That's probably a good enough reason right there. I've followed this debate since the start and you answered your question with that question above. Pool players, for the most part, stay broke. You shouldn't feel obligated to give them anything when they win money for you in a calcutta, especially the $75 you mentioned before, but when the time is right, a "jelly roll" goes a long way. As far as why a player wouldn't buy themselves in a calcutta, well, sometimes they just don't have the money to do so. I played in a tournament once where I bought myself for $40, nobody knew me, which was nice , and Buddy Hall went for about $1,600. Keith also played in this tournament and I'm guessing he went for at least a $1,000. I don't know if either of them bought themselves but if they did, they lost money because I won the tournament and got $1,700, maybe $1,800 back from the calcutta. Another time, I sat and watched Keith go broke at Underdog's place before Hard Times opened in Bellflower one night and afterward, he and I went to the Commerce Club and I staked him playing Pai Gow Poker. Just for the action, that's all it was. Needless to say, it wasn't Keith's night and I went broke. A few months went by and I ran into Keith again at Yankee Doodles in Long Beach and without saying a word, he handed me what I had lost, which was about $1,100. The night I went to the card club with Keith was the first time I had met him, the night he paid me back was the 2nd time. So, I know what Keith's character is all about, he knows what it's like to be on both ends of the pool players life because he's been there. So, back to the "jelly", sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do Baby's Arm, help a guy out when he's down, that's all. No, if you win $75, of course the guy has nothing coming. Unless he's hungry, buy him a cheeseburger. Wow, I didn't plan on writing this much, oh well, that's all I got to say on this matter. Peace, John.

I would bet that when you went for $40 and Buddy went for $1600 was in San Antonio Tx at Galaxy. I think I even remember the outcome.

 

[Rude Dog]

I would bet that when you went for $40 and Buddy went for $1600 was in San Antonio Tx at Galaxy. I think I even remember the outcome.

Well, you'd win that bet Ironman. Ahhh, the good ole days!