Is Efren Reyes Good For Pool??????

[Russ Chewning]

IMHO, and somewhat in line with what Bernie is saying, but not as obtusely.. We need someone young, good looking, with the personality of Minnesota Fats, and the skills of Efren.

Someone that interesting could really get things going on TV. That would bring sponsorship.

Also, make a movie where Mike McD and Worm from "Rounders" change careers and become pool hustlers. That way, Worm can show how players who always look for the lock never make money, and Mikey can show how if you just beLEIVE in yourself, you can spot Dave Matlock the orange crush on a barbox in a race to 20 ahead, and still come out a winner. Then, everyone will see how easy it is to make money at pool, and come flocking to the pool halls.

Russ

 

[crosseyedjoe]

I do understand where Bernie is coming from. I'm a Filipino. I posted before that the only descent way pool will get air-time is when Paris Hilton join the tour.

However, he is approaching it the wrong way. No one(OK, some, probaly 10) liked Pete Sampras, but there is Agassi so tennis never went into slumped when the old greats stopped playing. Aside from Efren, there are other endearing players in the tournament. Not that Efren is not interesting.

What pool needs is a good marketing strategy. Even if Jeaneth Lee wears a thong during tournament, no one will watch it if it's not marketed properly. In this day in age we create a market by niche marketing. Then we choose a marquee personality. True, it might not be Efren Reyes.

Pool is a very blue-collar sport. It has a very "unfashionable" perception. Golf is huge because it is a game played by elite people who have the money. Even without Tiger Woods golf will be forced upon us because of elitistic ideals.

My point is that Efren Reyes or not doesn't matter. It's the number of sponsorship that matters then marquee player next.

Pool community has to learn something from the NASCAR people.

 

[ironman]

WOW!!! I am speachless...I have never commented about your inclusion into the IPT out of respect and trying to stick with what my mom told me, being, if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all. Well my friend, you asked for it. Let me ASK YOU A QUESTION....DO YOU think your inclusion, considering your level of play, is a good thing for the IPT, a tour trying to represent itself as a tour with world class pool???? Never mind, save yourself the embarrassment of answering this question, we all know the answer!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!

Ever see the movie One Flew Over The Cukoos Nest? Now I know how McMurphy felt at the group therapy session.

 

[ineedaspot]

I actually think Efren could be marketable to the US public as a champion. He's definitely different from the average Joe, which is good. I don't think the American public needs champions that are American or young or fit any particular mold. The IPT has tried incite WWF-style trash-talking, and Efren is not so good in that sense. But I don't think the WWF approach is necessarily the best thing, and Efren's mild manner where he's always laughing and scratching his head could go over well if marketed correctly. You have all these cocky sharpshooters from all over the world with huge intimidating breaks, and then a little smiling 52-year old filipino beats them all and says "I got lucky" in broken English.

I also think part of the problem is that KT tried to market Sigel as the great master of pool, and so the greatness of Efren wasn't really conveyed in the OLN show. KT said on OLN that Efren lists Sigel as his pool hero, but he forgot to mention that everone else's pool hero is Efren. On the live broadcast, when players were doing commentary, you got a much better sense of how much reverence the pool community really has for Efren. I think every single player who commented on any of Efren's matches started the commentary by saying they thought Efren was the best player in the world and probably of all time. Also, during the match they kept bringing up Efren stories, and I think the aura of Efren's greatness came across pretty well. I think he's got a much better overall story than Sigel, starting from the whole Cesar Morales thing and so on.

 

[DaveK]

It is totally unfair to compare Efren Reyes to Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods in that respect. Sure, you can compare those three in terms of dominance in their respective game/sport. But you can't expect a foreigner to achieve what Jordan and Woods have done here in America.

You'd have to convince Maria Sharapova of that. To boot she is one of those "evil empire" people !

I think :
Efren good
8-bennie bernie bad

Dave

PS

 

[Island Drive]

You'd have to convince Maria Sharapova of that. To boot she is one of those "evil empire" people !

I think :
Efren good
8-bennie bernie bad

Dave

PS

Good point, except she's been living in FL since she was under 10

 

[macguy]

WOW!!! I am speachless...I have never commented about your inclusion into the IPT out of respect and trying to stick with what my mom told me, being, if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all. Well my friend, you asked for it. Let me ASK YOU A QUESTION....DO YOU think your inclusion, considering your level of play, is a good thing for the IPT, a tour trying to represent itself as a tour with world class pool???? Never mind, save yourself the embarrassment of answering this question, we all know the answer!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!

Worst then that, many of the players that got picked may have deceived the IPT with their actual resumes. The IPT should not even pay players like Bernie and dump them because it is obvious they lied about their abilities. There was nothing the IPT could do but they can sure kick them out now and replace them with actual worth while players. These players defrauded the IPT as far as I am concerned and should not be paid the show up money and told not to come back.

 

[sjm]

As shocking as the original post is, I'll try to address it's core question.

In so many ways, Efren is great for pool. His competitive greatness, unprecedented vison and limitless creativity at the table ensure that any pool player who watches will be overwhelmed by his wizardry. To me, he's the most interesting player to watch of the last 40 years, and has raised the bar for all professional pool players. Efren is a role model as a person, who has given back to his family, friends, and countrymen generously and with great compassion. Through his charity, villages and towns in the Philippines have been saved in the aftermath of natural disasters.

In another way, however, there's a side of me that feels that the fact that the world's best pool player is a fifty-something who sometmes seems a bit frail reduces the likelihood that pool will be marketable to those who aren't serious about pool. In my perfect world, the best pool player would be young, handsome, and ostentatious, a social butterly often seen with stars, and would be dating Paris Hilton or some other similarly visible sex symbol. Now that's a guy who can get pool some headlines.

For now, however, the maginficent Reyes is what we've got, so let's enjoy the majesty of his play.

 

[Steve Lipsky]

where does this leave us? i don't know. it would be nice to fix a tournament so austin murphy wins it ,so overnight, pool becomes something the general publics wants to view, but we just can't fix tournaments, until then austin will have to win it on his own skill,and once done, the world will tune into pool to watch "the kid" beat the grown ups, soon maybe one day we will hear this, "is austin murphy in the next tournament dad?"

Um, didn't a 16-year-old just win the World Championships, and "beat all the grown-ups"????

That did nothing for pool.

The average person has no clue how difficult pool is; you think a 16-year-old winning the WC is going to change that? It actually makes us look more mickey-mouse than ever to the average person. "Who's your current world champion?" "A 16-year-old." "Oh, I see. Must be a tough game."

- Steve

 

[Travis Bickle]

Way to go Bernie! You got some responses!

Whoever compared Efren with Sampras made a good point. Except that Efren's maybe a more compelling figure with his hard-scrabble background. And while Pete played with heart and flair, I don't think even he had half as much style and grace as Efren.

A short series of clips showing Efren at his Magician best could sell him to a lot of general viewers, I'd bet.

 

[cuesrus]

The most ridiculous post ever goes to....Bernie Fiend
What's your story? What's your gimmick?
You are a "C" player that scammed his way on to the IPT!
You took a spot away from a pool professional with a well written plea!
You have gotten crushed by any and all comers!

But wait Bernie knows what is good for the game!
Get real!!!!
You are clueless. Nobody respects your opinions because they are outlandish.
You must have watched a lot of WWF when you were a little kid.
Here is a hint... Wrestling is Fake!

Back to Efren, If Tiger didn't win everything in sight , he wouldn't be a big story. How many black professional golfers are there? Name them...
Efren wins, he is revered by pool players worldwide.
Pool has been around for many years and will continue to be.
Pool does not need to be Football or Golf.

Leave the sport of pool alone! Bernie
Please..

Rob

 

[8-ball bernie]

let me say it again, efren reyes is the greatest pool player that ever walked the face of the earth,and i am the second worst IPT player, after ryan keller,ok there i said it! now, onto the subject at hand, will moms and family members tune into see efren reyes win, or austin murphy? hmmmmm, don't think too hard!! LMAO!!!!!!!

 

[pooltchr]

I'm thinking back to the finals of the KOH...we have Mike "the mouth" who has been spouting off about how he is the greatest, that no one can touch him, women are weak and can't play the game, etc...and then this quiet, unassuming middle aged, non-descript guy with a shy smile comes along and cleans his clock. Anyone who didn't know anything about pool, but happened to see any of this would have been pulling for Efren to shut up the loud mouthed guy. Well, it happened. It's a great story line, and would have done a lot for the game if enough casual pool players had seen it.

Is Efren good for pool? You bet your a$$ he is! Is Earl? Jeanette? Ewa? MS? They are all good for pool, because they all have marketable qualities in addition to their skill as pool players. They have personalities that could be used to promote the game. We finally have someone putting the events together. They need to find a marketing company that can see the potential, and use it to make people WANT to watch.

Bernie, what do you have to offer?

Steve

 

[Cameron Smith]

In my opinion Efren is very likeable, he makes the game look effortless and his personality does show when he plays. He is not flamboyent but neither is Roger Federer but he is definitely great for tennis.

I don't know what bernie is talking about in regards to Tiger beating the rich white golfers. The rich white golfers have always been the amateurs not the pro's. I can't think of too many pro golfers who came from rich families, it's like any other sport.

Back to pool. We do not need to be searching for a character or a marketable face in pool. We already have lot's of interesting players and lots of good looking players. All we need to do is spend some time giving their personalities some air time.

 

[ballball]

Well he's humble, kind, a giving person that created his life out of nothing. He's in the hall of fame, the #1 recognized person in his own country and "always" thinks of others. Your probably right he doesn't sound like a pool player to me, someone else should of been this good, but whom? Boy I sure wouldn't want to raise a child to have all the qualities of a person like Efrem would you?? I found your post narrow m****d.

For me let the cue do the talking!

 

[JoeyInCali]

Is Efren good for pool?
Go to any tournament Efren is playing in.
Count how many people went there to see him.

 

[jay helfert]

the question here is a deep and important one. is efren reyes good for pool?
the answer that i give is NO!

you see, i see it this way, there is the skill of the person and then there is the person of the person. let me go further~~

if tiger woods was white and rich and played the exact same way he plays, would golf be as huge as it is now? NO! why not? because, the public wanted to see a young black kid stick it to the rich white man! that's what made mothers and daughters and people who otherwise would have not tuned into view golf, view golf. you see, no one cared that tiger was so talented, but they cared that he was beating the white rich men, this was appealing to us little poor folk, to the common man struggling, it was refreshing to see, that a young black kid, could kick the big bad white rich men at their own game, this is the essence of why golf is so freakin huge, not talent, but the person of who and what tiger woods stands for in the world of discrimination and justice.

i raise another question, if the beatles wer'e bald fat 60 year old men without english accents, and picked their nose on television would the world have freaked out so much? NO! we would have said, hey great music, but then the world would have moved on.
BUT~~~~~~ the beatles wer'e cute, hairy,great accents,young youthful with tons of humor, making them the most sought after entertainment act in history, yes their music was genius, but we bought the entire package.

this leads me back to my original question~~~~ is efren reyes good for pool?

the answer is clearly NO!
his persoanlity does not come through,and there is nothing the general public cares about, so what if he is the greeatest pool player ever, it means nothing,there is no "appeal" to the general public. thus, no one cares. he is in deed , the greatest all around player that ever lived, and in the phillippeens, he is GOD,however, in america, he is an unknown pool player who will remain so.

pool needs a women champion, or some young perhaps handicappped kid, something that mom's and people of all walks of life can sink their teeth into, and ask, "is so and so playing in this tournament?" the general public doesn't care if efren reyes is playing in the next IPT event, however the general public does care if tiger woods is playing in the next golf tournament, ask yourself WHY? i told you my opinion why.

where does this leave us? i don't know. it would be nice to fix a tournament so austin murphy wins it ,so overnight, pool becomes something the general publics wants to view, but we just can't fix tournaments, until then austin will have to win it on his own skill,and once done, the world will tune into pool to watch "the kid" beat the grown ups, soon maybe one day we will hear this, "is austin murphy in the next tournament dad?"

This is like asking if pool tables are good for pool. No, we can play on the floor.

 

[tfdr]

just imagine if efren did not learn to play pool..what would be the state of pool nowadays??

will it be better or not?
the level of play seeq quote below(Creativity, stuning kicks and banks) ?

the stories about coming to America?
would Earl or sigel be the common favorite of all players aspiring and professional alikes??

anyway

think this was an excerpt from Scott Grissms book that also featured Bata:

He was a skinny guy with a thin mustache and no teeth. To most folks, this Caesar Morales looked like a dreamer without a chance, some local hero or small-time hustler who thought he could ride a few bar room triumphs to success on the pro billiards circuit. Maybe he was Mexican, or Filipino뾥e didn't say and no one asked. This was the 1985 Red's 9-Ball Open in Houston, Texas, $10,500 to the winner, where billiards' best came to win, not make friends.

Morales stayed inconspicuous; the guys he came with did not. They were making bets, saying not only would Morales and his $10 cue win his matches, but he would beat the finest shot makers and gamblers in the country by two, three or four racks, in a race to 11. Ludicrous. No rookie no-name could pull that off. Besides, pool was an American game. Sure there were good players from Europe, Japan and Taiwan, and there was a sportswriter, John Grissim, who'd been to the Philippines and claimed there were guys in that country, like a kid named Efren Reyes, who could beat anyone anywhere. But the Americans were still dominant. And yet Morales' buddies were throwing out crazy odds, "giving three or four games on the wire," recalls former pro player and promoter Jay Helfert. "The top American players didn't have to win the match, all they had to do was win seven games. Everybody was jumping on it, betting thousands of dollars. And he was beating player after player 11-3, 11-2, 11-4. I said, 'Who is this guy?'"

This guy won the tournament. And he cleaned up in the back room, during the big-money action that starts when the crowds go home. Before the fans left, though, the mystery shark signed a few autographs. Only then did he reveal himself, signing not Caesar Morales, but his real name, Efren Reyes.

or that if he merely hustled??
there was a story that wihile hustling he plays left handed and still milked everybody but when opponenst starting to ask ludicrous handicapp,
then he would request that he would use his right hand.

 

[bobson_215]

or that if he merely hustled??
there was a story that while hustling he plays left handed and still milked everybody but when opponents starting to ask ludicrous handicap,
then he would request that he would use his right hand.

LOOOL!!! this one is familiar... so many street smarts!

 

[ballball]

Pool w/out Efren is like

Basketball w/out Bill Rusell or Michael Jordan
Golf w/out Arnold Palmer or Tiger Woods
Tennis w/out Bjorn Borg or Roger Federer....need i say more