25K divided by 128 players = $195 added p/plyr per marketing poop
13.8K divided by 80 players = ACTUAL $172 added p/plyr....( $23 ) per plyr
$23 x 80 plyrs =( $1840 )
doesn't account for the $550 mia
was the ladies entry fee the same as the men?
Issues Blowing Up At The Tornado Open
- Thread starter John Disque
- Start date
25K divided by 128 players = $195 added p/plyr per marketing poop
13.8K divided by 80 players = ACTUAL $172 added p/plyr....( $23 ) per plyr
$23 x 80 plyrs =( $1840 )
doesn't account for the $550 mia
was the ladies entry fee the same as the men?
Not surprising is the worst sports state for spectators bar none outside collage football
1
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Griffin has a point, instead of just limiting the field to pros open it up to amateurs with a handi.
Have more players, shorter early matches and longer matches towards the finals.
There are tons of amateurs that sign up for events, give them a handicap and your field list might just match up amateur events.
The amateur money is where players might actually be able to afford to lose, so its a good mix.
Why keep amateurs away from the pros, invite them to events with a spot.
You could even do away with amateur events and just integrate them into pro pool events.
That would be a pool tournament of all generations, all skills and all nations.
Great Point Griffin. Double Kudos for the suggestion.
The people that love the game can play it with the people that play it to live.
Have more players, shorter early matches and longer matches towards the finals.
There are tons of amateurs that sign up for events, give them a handicap and your field list might just match up amateur events.
The amateur money is where players might actually be able to afford to lose, so its a good mix.
Why keep amateurs away from the pros, invite them to events with a spot.
You could even do away with amateur events and just integrate them into pro pool events.
That would be a pool tournament of all generations, all skills and all nations.
Great Point Griffin. Double Kudos for the suggestion.
The people that love the game can play it with the people that play it to live.
Viv anint no young hoppe.
It's all good I guess it's no different than my line of work these days Scott. Boy when they need me they scream.....but when I pipe up about safety issues. All I get is bashed and get told about money/jobs. Smh
Told u there was lots of similarities....and I am in a much more powerful industry where "the player" well let's just say we have no voice. I think I only stick around because half the time I'm trying to save the facilities and the workers. When I flip the switch and go back to the game we all love....it's like everyone takes it just to save the game, cuz it sure ain't saving ourselves lol.
Much love for the real players shakers and movers.
Grind hard hard,
-grey ghost
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Hi Mark,
Hope you don't mind if I make a couple comparisons between the Men's 10 Ball event at the Tornado Open and the CSI USBTC Open 10-Ball which was recently completed in August.
Entry Fees
TO - $500
CSI - $150
Number of Entries
TO - 80
CSI - 74
CSI - 74
So despite an over 3 times entry fee of the CSI event, the Tornado Open still managed to get 6 more players. And let's not forget about the CSI US Open 10 Ball that took place in July. $350 entry, and how many players did it get? Oh that's right, 52.
I highly doubt whatever issues occurred at the TO were because they used 9' tables.
Great comparison, it highlights the importance of player fees in relation to tournament payouts.
Let's make a new rating for players. A rating for players to decide if a tournament event is worth playing in.
call it the prize to entry coefficient (PEC), there is a secret formula, its complicated.
assume first prize is $10,000 with an entry of $500, then the PEC is 40
If first prize is $500 with an entry of $100, then the PEC is 5.
If first prize is $200 with an entry of $100, then the PEC is 2.
(PEC is first prize divided by entry fee)
Players have to decide which events to attend. A good way to compare tournament prize payouts is the PEC score.
It should help pros and amateurs decide what events have the best payoff given the entry fee. Pros play with events of PEC score more than 10, less than 10 means the event is recreational or suited to players that don't have hotel and travel expenses.
Let's make a new rating for players. A rating for players to decide if a tournament event is worth playing in.
call it the prize to entry coefficient (PEC), there is a secret formula, its complicated.
assume first prize is $10,000 with an entry of $500, then the PEC is 40
If first prize is $500 with an entry of $100, then the PEC is 5.
If first prize is $200 with an entry of $100, then the PEC is 2.
(PEC is first prize divided by entry fee)
Players have to decide which events to attend. A good way to compare tournament prize payouts is the PEC score.
It should help pros and amateurs decide what events have the best payoff given the entry fee. Pros play with events of PEC score more than 10, less than 10 means the event is recreational or suited to players that don't have hotel and travel expenses.
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In my 12 years on this site, this is the best post I've ever read. Post of the decade. Post of the year candidate. Not sarcasm.
I appreciate the comparisons, however you are missing a few very important ingredients. Because of casino scheduling issues, CSI was not able to announce the dates until very late and the dates we were forced into were very close to our nationals - so there was a lot of confusion. In addition, we conflicted with Turning Stone (that was our fault, but the casino kept changing dates and over the few months of negotiating, Turning Stone announced their dates and we missed it).
We apologize for that and it will be avoided in the future. We either had to accept the 'bad' dates or to cancel the event. - We were not willing to cancel - and we paid for it.
Also, our added money was FAR below the Florida event.
So the Tornado Open had months to advertise, had massive added money, had basically no conflicting events. but was on 9' tables. We had to move from Reno (where it had been for over 20 years). We were smaller but we also feel it will grow.
The dates for 2017 are Dec 7-16, in Las Vegas. We will have plenty of time to promote and have no conflicting events. Then we will compare numbers.
Keep in mind CSI had several 96 and 128 man fields in conjunction with our nationals on 9' tables with less added money. My opinion is that it is harder and harder toi fill most 9' events. But that is my opinion.
I realize you like shooting 'zingers' at me - I hope you pool game gets as much attention. All I want to do is get more people playing pool. I don't determine what they play on, I only react to what they play on.
Mark Griffin
We apologize for that and it will be avoided in the future. We either had to accept the 'bad' dates or to cancel the event. - We were not willing to cancel - and we paid for it.
Also, our added money was FAR below the Florida event.
So the Tornado Open had months to advertise, had massive added money, had basically no conflicting events. but was on 9' tables. We had to move from Reno (where it had been for over 20 years). We were smaller but we also feel it will grow.
The dates for 2017 are Dec 7-16, in Las Vegas. We will have plenty of time to promote and have no conflicting events. Then we will compare numbers.
Keep in mind CSI had several 96 and 128 man fields in conjunction with our nationals on 9' tables with less added money. My opinion is that it is harder and harder toi fill most 9' events. But that is my opinion.
I realize you like shooting 'zingers' at me - I hope you pool game gets as much attention. All I want to do is get more people playing pool. I don't determine what they play on, I only react to what they play on.
Mark Griffin
80 players
80 players at 500 each 40,000
Total event payout 50,000
Would make it 10,000 added?
If they were pulling $195? lets call it $200 for simple math times 80 $16000
So the players basically paid $16K of the $25K added based on simple math? For the mens event.???>>>>Event added $9000 to the mens event.
What was the added based on a full field? $200 times 128? $25,600
Pretty sure the FLYERS mentioned payouts based on FULL FIELD of 128 for the men and 64 for the womens event.
Confused yet?
80 players at 500 each 40,000
Total event payout 50,000
Would make it 10,000 added?
If they were pulling $195? lets call it $200 for simple math times 80 $16000
So the players basically paid $16K of the $25K added based on simple math? For the mens event.???>>>>Event added $9000 to the mens event.
What was the added based on a full field? $200 times 128? $25,600
Pretty sure the FLYERS mentioned payouts based on FULL FIELD of 128 for the men and 64 for the womens event.
Confused yet?
Truth be told, a veteran pro player spoke with Tony, and after their conversation, Tony decided it was best to remove the original post. After reflection on the situation, Tony thought it best to delete that original post.
I respect your words as I believe you do feel that way. I may not agree, but I respect your right to have that opinion. You don't post under false identities and/or multiple identities.
My opinion is that you cannot paint all pro players with the same brush. It is stereotyping. There are some really good people out there who play professional pool, people who do care, people who help others, people who try to promote pool and put it in a better light. Scott Frost comes to mind.
You may not like pro players, but I do believe they deserve a modicum of respect, those who have achieved high levels of pool playing. That doesn't mean you have to kiss their feet and bow down to them, Lou. Just a modicum of respect for their skills. After all, this is a pool forum.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The existing lot of professional players is dwindling. Soon there will be no professional pool. The leagues today are where it's at as far as mainstream America. There may be a day that the game of pool falls into the category of croquet, a game remembered from long ago.
But while pool is still played professionally, I choose a different stance on how I view pro players.
Again, I like that you post under your own name and don't create multiple identities. And I'll just leave it at that. This ain't my first rodeo on pool forums, as you know, and I'm not just talking about AzBilliards.
After speaking to my other half about what happened to that one guy, he agrees with you, Lou. He said that if they took his money, even if he said he wasn't showing up, they should have still kept his name on the roster. Otherwise, if they removed his name, he should have gotten a refund.
Some promoters refund a percentage of the free if the cancellation is not within a certain time frame.
Hi Mark,
You would know more about the logistics, so I'll take your word on the reason for your previous events being so short this year. Although the 2015 US Open 10 Ball took place around the same time of the year (end of July), and also had less than 80 players (77).
I see. the men were unhappy because more money should be added.
Your point is valid.
How much money is. Viv losing, was overall spectator attendance low, even for finals?
Your point is valid.
How much money is. Viv losing, was overall spectator attendance low, even for finals?
80 players at 500 each 40,000
Total event payout 50,000
Would make it 10,000 added?
If they were pulling $195? lets call it $200 for simple math times 80 $16000
So the players basically paid $16K of the $25K added based on simple math? For the mens event.???>>>>Event added $9000 to the mens event.
What was the added based on a full field? $200 times 128? $25,600
Pretty sure the FLYERS mentioned payouts based on FULL FIELD of 128 for the men and 64 for the womens event.
Confused yet?
I would guess Vivian is/was just the 'face of the tournament' and the Seminoles took any and all losses.
She is brave for pushing for the event three years strong.
I understand they don't make money when the seats are empty, but does it actually cost them money? Seems like it would just be a wash.
Even if it is a loss, I would think some of it would be offset by some players staying at the hotel, and most players gambling in the casino.
We'll know for sure if they hold the event next year.