Jay Helfert resigned as Tourney Director at the US Open
- Thread starter bfdlad
- Start date
JAM -
I can play a little, but I still need some luck in the draw to go very far in any tournament. If I am scheduled to play some no-name and they suddenly bring in Keith or Allen to play me, I would suspiciously feel maligned.
That's the point -- the "appearance of impropriety". And I believe, knowing Jay, that he saw that issue and responded appropriately.
If the tournament "owner" made promises to Keith, and you and Keith relied on that promise to your detriment, you may have a financial quarrel with him. (In Barry's case, it wouldn't be the first, nor the last.)
I can play a little, but I still need some luck in the draw to go very far in any tournament. If I am scheduled to play some no-name and they suddenly bring in Keith or Allen to play me, I would suspiciously feel maligned.
That's the point -- the "appearance of impropriety". And I believe, knowing Jay, that he saw that issue and responded appropriately.
If the tournament "owner" made promises to Keith, and you and Keith relied on that promise to your detriment, you may have a financial quarrel with him. (In Barry's case, it wouldn't be the first, nor the last.)
I definitely see your point and understand exactly what you are saying.
Nobody comes out smelling like a rose, so to speak, in what happened. It's kind of like you're damned if you do and damned if you don't, depending on which opinion you hold.
The lesson learned, I hope, is that tournament rosters the size of the Open need to be checked and double-checked to ensure it is right. The problem with the Open is those free entries to past winners. Some past winners show up, and some do not. Should the promoter call each one who is still alive and ask if they plan on attending in the future? Maybe that's the way to go. I don't know. Allen was told by the promoter that he was included on the roster.
In this happening, Barry dropped the ball, I agree. Jay and Allen were directly affected by the dropping of that ball.
There's a lot of things, too, that go on behind the scenes that aren't out for public consumption on a pool forum.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Jay
What if Barry had come to you discretely and said "I am in an embarrassing position over the fact that I promised an ex champs spot to Allen and I just plain forgot. I feel bad about not being able to keep my word. What can we do?
At that very moment one of the amateur players in the draw (perhaps a friend of Allen's) offers to withdraw so that his friend can play. Would you feel no compassion for your employer, not help him over this situation.
In another scenario - what if Barry insisted that you let Allen play and instead of leaving you took him on head to head. What do you think would have happened next. By now the row is public and players and fans are taking sides. What would happen then?
Would your Poker instincts tell you to raise the stakes, fold or go all in? Would Barry have folded or carried on bluffing ad nauseam?
Jay? Anyone?
What if Barry had come to you discretely and said "I am in an embarrassing position over the fact that I promised an ex champs spot to Allen and I just plain forgot. I feel bad about not being able to keep my word. What can we do?
At that very moment one of the amateur players in the draw (perhaps a friend of Allen's) offers to withdraw so that his friend can play. Would you feel no compassion for your employer, not help him over this situation.
In another scenario - what if Barry insisted that you let Allen play and instead of leaving you took him on head to head. What do you think would have happened next. By now the row is public and players and fans are taking sides. What would happen then?
Would your Poker instincts tell you to raise the stakes, fold or go all in? Would Barry have folded or carried on bluffing ad nauseam?
Jay? Anyone?
Oh, man, that's a loaded scenario and a toughie.
I will be interested to read Jay's reply, if he chooses to write one.
If I had my money invested in the pot, I'd be playing the hand out that I was dealt and then walk away from the table, never looking back.
uttahere:
Especially in pro play. Players will then leave the tournament area (many)create their routine while settling in for play/practice. This information is critical for sleep/eat patterns especially if your from over seas.
Your kidding?
He did nothing wrong?
Jay said he is not in the tournament. Jay says "Allen understood and told me he didn't care if he played or not". Barry manipulates the brackets so Allen can play. Allen plays.
And you see nothing wrong with this.
"And sometimes players never check the chart until they make time to go over to where the chart is displayed. They may be at Q-Masters practicing or enjoying the local sights or visiting with friends or entertaining in their hotel rooms. Not all players scramble to the tournament chart as soon as it is done. They just don't".
And who's fault is that?
Allen's at the U.S. Open 2 days in advance and never checks to see if he is on the signup sheet.
It is quite simple. Allen's ego got the better of him and he chose to play.
And now there are a few on here bailing water on a sinking ship.
Let it be a learning point for all those in any tournament.
Check and make sure you're signed up to play. It's only takes a few minutes of your time.
Don
He did nothing wrong?
Jay said he is not in the tournament. Jay says "Allen understood and told me he didn't care if he played or not". Barry manipulates the brackets so Allen can play. Allen plays.
And you see nothing wrong with this.
"And sometimes players never check the chart until they make time to go over to where the chart is displayed. They may be at Q-Masters practicing or enjoying the local sights or visiting with friends or entertaining in their hotel rooms. Not all players scramble to the tournament chart as soon as it is done. They just don't".
And who's fault is that?
Allen's at the U.S. Open 2 days in advance and never checks to see if he is on the signup sheet.
It is quite simple. Allen's ego got the better of him and he chose to play.
And now there are a few on here bailing water on a sinking ship.
Let it be a learning point for all those in any tournament.
Check and make sure you're signed up to play. It's only takes a few minutes of your time.
Don
I know you have competed in many professional tournaments over the years, as well as invested a lot of dough in the professional tournament trail. As a player, if you traveled to the Open and you were in Allen's shoes, I am curious as to what you would have done.
Still wondering about this, seems like everybody sweeps this comment under the carpet.
Humor...
the guy who runs the $5 weekly tourney at Nick's Ice House refuses to change the bracket once it's drawn.
That's what I was responding to.
I'm not familiar with the all the details by my impression of this whole thing is it's a tempest in a teapot. Some guy who had no chance of winning the U S Open dropped out so an error could be rectified by letting Hopkins - who at this stage of his career also has no chance of winning - take his place. Jay got upset because he was left out of the loop and said "asterisk it, I quit". If they then redrew the entire bracket and disrupted everybody's sleep pattern causing mass chaos then I can see how it is a huge deal but frankly I think it was more a matter of Jay feeling disrespected than anything which actually impacted the tournament.
10 years from now nobody will remember this, they will only remember Cheng winning the U S Open.
It was announced during the 14.1 finals the players wouldn't have to play that night. What harm was done by making this arrangement?
Very insightful post here. The first scenario is not Barry's style. The second one is, however, a smart TD would have realized that what Barry really meant was the first scenario, even though he sounded like the second.
The answer is to read between the lines and respond to him as if he were acting in the first scenario.
The answer should have been: Okay Barry, I hear you, and let me chew on this for a bit and try to figure something out before the matches begin. Maybe then the TD calls on a few of the top players in the event and gets their opinions, or makes a few calls. Then he gathers the troops to try to find a solution -- or, even maybe to confirm that there wasn't a solution. Then after the research was done, report back to Barry with a lot more information and possible scenarios. Then maybe sit down with Barry and Allen together and review the scenarios. Perhaps with more information and a level head, both Barry and Allen would have decided to leave things be. Or maybe a workable solution would have been found that works for everyone. Nobody knows how things would have progressed with more information, calm behavior on the part of the TD, and some logical thinking.
None of that was done.
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Until the game becomes organized, like many pro sports.....the cat's will play, plain and simple.
Since your dealing with Gamblers it's no different than dealing with unscrupulous bankers or insurance companies.
When they hold the cards and create the rules....this is what you end up with. And when they don't like the rules they set, like all disclaimers, they can change the rules at ''any time''.
Nowadays, allot less people are willing to ''stand up'' take a risk and do what's right. Or, maybe they don't understand right from wrong and the rules of common sense, which is not real prevalent nowadays.
Or maybe the TD just does his job and does right by all the players and and makes a principled call.
Lou Figueroa
What makes you think that it wouldn't have wound up that way, but instead with Barry in full agreement? You can be combative and dig your heels in, or you can be smart and try to help someone come to that decision on his own. And who knows... maybe there would have been a workable solution found.
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Just curious, but for illustrative purposes, who would make the final call in the Mosconi Cup on a rule conundrum? Barry Hearn or the tournament director?
If BB had been acting in a sane, smart way I might agree with you, though frankly, if you're going to do the right thing you end up with the same decision.
But BB was inebriated, combative, profane, and being dictatorial. Why would anyone even attempt to coddle someone acting like that, particularly in the middle of trying to run the three-ring circus that is the US Open? Jay wasn't being paid to hold BB's hand and act like Mother Teresa. He was hired to be the TD and along with that comes the authority and moral responsibility to make the tough calls.
Lou Figueroa
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Fran;
Have you ever tried reasoning with an unreasonable, mean, drunk?
If you haven't, then it's understandable that you would be suggesting such optimistic solutions that might fly with a normal person.
Barry isn't normal.
Jay was in a lousy spot.
best,
brian kc
As was Allen.
BTW, I enjoyed your shoo-in/shoe-in post in the other thread.
In this regard, there should be no comma after "mean" (adjective) before "drunk" (noun).