Lawyers, we don't need no stinking laywers

[whitewolf]

The players are idiots because they expect Barry to take all of the risks. I thought Barry was Jewish - they are supposed to be business savy, right?

Why don't the players and Barry agree to share the risks? After all the dust settles and Barry is allowed to keep a reasonable profit percentage, then the players would share what is left over on a percentage basis.

They may need a negotiator to handle this, and then pay a lawyer a minimum fee to finalize the agreement.

This ain't rocket science - all you need is a few creative people to make this happen!!!

 

[dirtybobjr]

Is the US Open in jeopardy ?


I just had the opportunity for the first time to listen to the interview between AZB, Rodney Morris, and Barry Behrman and it looks to me that we're heading for an impasse. Well anyways as long as lawyers are involved.

I really feel that after listening to both sides that i'm split about who I agree or disagree with. I feel for the players because of the economics of the sport, and agree that they should get ALL of their money at the end of their tournament. But I also feel for Barry and believe that he's really pressed for meeting the demands of the players about wanting their money after the tournament ends. I also feel that for the first time in a few years Barry has made himself better prepared to meet his obligations. But what does that mean to the players after several years of Barry not living up to his agreements with the players. So where do we go from here?

Imo I feel that it's time for Shannon Behrman to take a more active and vocal role in the US Open, I believe that her innocence will offer a different perspective for the players to mull over for them to make an intelligent decision. Not that I have a distrust for Barry, but it just lends to a more predictable outcome, I think.

Understanding both ends of the debate I think that if Barry gets the additional support that he needs to run a financially successful event, along with Shannon's endorsement, that should be enough for the players to gamble on and drop the boycott. After all no one wants to see no US Open 9 Ball Championships. No one.

There's a lot at stake for everyone concerned, especially Barry Behrman.
I say it's time to roll the dice and gamble that this will be a successful US Open for everyone.

Billy Incardona"

If the pros aren't gonna show up........... I might just put 5 or 6 top regional players in, who might not otherwise enter, and roll the dice myself! LOL Just stay home and watch the stream........ cost about the same as a trip for the week!

 

[wincardona]

First, thanks for coming by and posting your thoughts.

I had a question i'm so curious to get your thoughts on if you don't mind. How much do you think the level of play at the US open would drop without the best players? Yeah, there wont be that star factor, but I think the level would stay very close to the level with thim. So from a "pure" fan perspective (for lack of a better term), the pool we'll see may be almost just as good. Should us fans care so much?? Believe me, i'm a players guy, I want to see the players do well and get what they want. But I really don't feel the level of play would suffer. Maybe the level of college football could be a good analogy?

If the ABP boycotts the Open not only will we see the level of play decline, but we could very well be witnessing the beginning of the end of the longest running tournament in our country. Why kid yourself, we as fans want to see the highest level of play regardless of the sport we are watching, and to not have the ABP there would be a fatal blow to that tournament. Maybe not so much for this years open because of the huge fan base that Barry and The US Open have created but imo certainly in the years to come.

If Barry is having problems meeting his obligations with all the best players in the world attending, can you imagine what would eventually happen if the boycott actually took place? What could happen would be after the second year of no ABP players the attendance would drop considerably and then after that there would be no US Open.

I don't condone how Barry has handled his business in recent years, but BARRY as we all know him is a very zealous type of a guy, and it was that zealous personality that helped make the Open grow into the most prestigious/popular tournament in our country. I'm not saying that without him we could of still done the things that he did, but if I did I wouldn't be far off. The only other tournament that compares with the US Open in this country is The DCC. Every thing else pales in comparison. Yes I like what Mark Griffin is trying to do and he's possibly one a a very few that could save pool in our country but lets not ever overlook the time, dedication, and love for the game that Barry has put into The US Open to make it what it is today. That's why I suggested that his daughter Shannon should take a more active role in the tournament. Maybe just maybe it's the missing ingredient that could possibly persuade the ABP to reconsider and support the US Open not only for all the players playing today and the younger players that are our future, but also for the great players/people that made the US Open what it is today.

The ABP sent a clear message with their threat to boycott the tournament, every one in the pool world now knows what's at stake if the ABP drops the boycott, it's all part of the process to benefit the fans/players and The US Open.

I say drop the boycott and put the ball back in in Barry's court. Now the man that spend 35 years of his life to do something he wanted to do will have control of the destiny of the great tournament he created. He will know what he needs to do to save his tournament, and we will see not only a desperate man but a dedicated/desperate man working dillgently for the same goal that all the players of today and years past have worked toward. The US Open 9 Ball Championships.

To me this is an easy call for the ABP. Yes the forest is behind the trees.

Billy I.

 

[$TAKE HOR$E]

To me this is an easy call for the ABP. Yes the forest is behind the trees.

Billy I.

But if a tree falls and no one is around, does it make a sound.....:scratchhead:

 

[Neil]

..............

 

[ironman]

If the ABP boycotts the Open not only will we see the level of play decline, but we could very well be witnessing the beginning of the end of the longest running tournament in our country. Why kid yourself, we as fans want to see the highest level of play regardless of the sport we are watching, and to not have the ABP there would be a fatal blow to that tournament. Maybe not so much for this years open because of the huge fan base that Barry and The US Open have created but imo certainly in the years to come.

If Barry is having problems meeting his obligations with all the best players in the world attending, can you imagine what would eventually happen if the boycott actually took place? What could happen would be after the second year of no ABP players the attendance would drop considerably and then after that there would be no US Open.

I don't condone how Barry has handled his business in recent years, but BARRY as we all know him is a very zealous type of a guy, and it was that zealous personality that helped make the Open grow into the most prestigious/popular tournament in our country. I'm not saying that without him we could of still done the things that he did, but if I did I wouldn't be far off. The only other tournament that compares with the US Open in this country is The DCC. Every thing else pales in comparison. Yes I like what Mark Griffin is trying to do and he's possibly one a a very few that could save pool in our country but lets not ever overlook the time, dedication, and love for the game that Barry has put into The US Open to make it what it is today. That's why I suggested that his daughter Shannon should take a more active role in the tournament. Maybe just maybe it's the missing ingredient that could possibly persuade the ABP to reconsider and support the US Open not only for all the players playing today and the younger players that are our future, but also for the great players/people that made the US Open what it is today.

The ABP sent a clear message with their threat to boycott the tournament, every one in the pool world now knows what's at stake if the ABP drops the boycott, it's all part of the process to benefit the fans/players and The US Open.

I say drop the boycott and put the ball back in in Barry's court. Now the man that spend 35 years of his life to do something he wanted to do will have control of the destiny of the great tournament he created. He will know what he needs to do to save his tournament, and we will see not only a desperate man but a dedicated/desperate man working dillgently for the same goal that all the players of today and years past have worked toward. The US Open 9 Ball Championships.

To me this is an easy call for the ABP. Yes the forest is behind the trees.

Billy I.

It will always be the "Tournament Barry Built" Like you I have never agreed with all his decisions but I have been glad it was he faced with some of those decisions and not myself. I always felt his intent was good.
My personal opinion is that Berry is a proud guy who should have at some points asked for help. For some that is a very hard thing to do. i wish him well!

 

[Scott Lee]

Not just that David, but Mark is PLENTY busy running his own stuff. It's not like he is sitting around twiddling his thumbs, looking for something else to take up his time and energy! Good post, and I agree with all of your points! :thumbup:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

We can't place that kind of pressure on one individual. Mark can only do so much. For pool to get its shitt together, it will take a cooperative effort from everybody. Right now, we can't even get together and talk about these issues over a cup of coffee. There is so much work that needs to be done PRIOR to putting any plan into action. It is going to take a lot more than just appointing a savior that we can crucify if or when it all goes to hell in a handbasket again.

 

[C.Milian]

If the ABP boycotts the Open not only will we see the level of play decline, but we could very well be witnessing the beginning of the end of the longest running tournament in our country. Why kid yourself, we as fans want to see the highest level of play regardless of the sport we are watching, and to not have the ABP there would be a fatal blow to that tournament. Maybe not so much for this years open because of the huge fan base that Barry and The US Open have created but imo certainly in the years to come.

If Barry is having problems meeting his obligations with all the best players in the world attending, can you imagine what would eventually happen if the boycott actually took place? What could happen would be after the second year of no ABP players the attendance would drop considerably and then after that there would be no US Open.

I don't condone how Barry has handled his business in recent years, but BARRY as we all know him is a very zealous type of a guy, and it was that zealous personality that helped make the Open grow into the most prestigious/popular tournament in our country. I'm not saying that without him we could of still done the things that he did, but if I did I wouldn't be far off. The only other tournament that compares with the US Open in this country is The DCC. Every thing else pales in comparison. Yes I like what Mark Griffin is trying to do and he's possibly one a a very few that could save pool in our country but lets not ever overlook the time, dedication, and love for the game that Barry has put into The US Open to make it what it is today. That's why I suggested that his daughter Shannon should take a more active role in the tournament. Maybe just maybe it's the missing ingredient that could possibly persuade the ABP to reconsider and support the US Open not only for all the players playing today and the younger players that are our future, but also for the great players/people that made the US Open what it is today.

The ABP sent a clear message with their threat to boycott the tournament, every one in the pool world now knows what's at stake if the ABP drops the boycott, it's all part of the process to benefit the fans/players and The US Open.

I say drop the boycott and put the ball back in in Barry's court. Now the man that spend 35 years of his life to do something he wanted to do will have control of the destiny of the great tournament he created. He will know what he needs to do to save his tournament, and we will see not only a desperate man but a dedicated/desperate man working dillgently for the same goal that all the players of today and years past have worked toward. The US Open 9 Ball Championships.

To me this is an easy call for the ABP. Yes the forest is behind the trees.

Billy I.

You know what Mr. Incardone? I'm glad you said the truth about the players. If you watch lower level competitions, you will see many errors. Even in the finals, some guys take three innings to get out. And thats what will most likely happen if the top guys don't show.

I'm glad that you came in a non threatening way, because I believe thats what it will take to make things happen. Over the course of a few weeks, I've read some of the most degrading things said from "Fans" about Pros. It's funny because its what a lot of these guys play for....not the money.

How can they play for "Love of the game", when the game wants to kick them in the grill? I have never been asked for an autograph, but I'm sure it does wonders to the esteem. I wouldn't trade anything for it. I lied...I'll trade it for a billion dollars.

 

[Scott Lee]

C.Milian...Not trying to take away from what you said, but even in the finals of pro events, you still see some top players taking 3 inning to get out. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen. It's not like they all run out all the time.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

If you watch lower level competitions, you will see many errors. Even in the finals, some guys take three innings to get out. And thats what will most likely happen if the top guys don't show.

 

[deanoc]

i don't understand the whole thing

 

[C.Milian]

I feel Barry in a sense that its probably like losing your puppy after having seen him grow. That must suck. I'm not one to say what he should do, but I've support the US open by buying lots of matches from my favorite players, and would like to see some more if possible.

I'm getting sad

 

[Maniac]

If the ABP boycotts the Open not only will we see the level of play decline, but we could very well be witnessing the beginning of the end of the longest running tournament in our country.

Bill, I agree with most everything you've posted here except this statement. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Texas Open is the longest running tournament in the country (this year will be the 38th running), and possibly in the world.

Maniac

 

[The Chinchilla]

If the ABP boycotts the Open not only will we see the level of play decline, but we could very well be witnessing the beginning of the end of the longest running tournament in our country. Why kid yourself, we as fans want to see the highest level of play regardless of the sport we are watching, and to not have the ABP there would be a fatal blow to that tournament. Maybe not so much for this years open because of the huge fan base that Barry and The US Open have created but imo certainly in the years to come.

If Barry is having problems meeting his obligations with all the best players in the world attending, can you imagine what would eventually happen if the boycott actually took place? What could happen would be after the second year of no ABP players the attendance would drop considerably and then after that there would be no US Open.

I don't condone how Barry has handled his business in recent years, but BARRY as we all know him is a very zealous type of a guy, and it was that zealous personality that helped make the Open grow into the most prestigious/popular tournament in our country. I'm not saying that without him we could of still done the things that he did, but if I did I wouldn't be far off. The only other tournament that compares with the US Open in this country is The DCC. Every thing else pales in comparison. Yes I like what Mark Griffin is trying to do and he's possibly one a a very few that could save pool in our country but lets not ever overlook the time, dedication, and love for the game that Barry has put into The US Open to make it what it is today. That's why I suggested that his daughter Shannon should take a more active role in the tournament. Maybe just maybe it's the missing ingredient that could possibly persuade the ABP to reconsider and support the US Open not only for all the players playing today and the younger players that are our future, but also for the great players/people that made the US Open what it is today.

The ABP sent a clear message with their threat to boycott the tournament, every one in the pool world now knows what's at stake if the ABP drops the boycott, it's all part of the process to benefit the fans/players and The US Open.

I say drop the boycott and put the ball back in in Barry's court. Now the man that spend 35 years of his life to do something he wanted to do will have control of the destiny of the great tournament he created. He will know what he needs to do to save his tournament, and we will see not only a desperate man but a dedicated/desperate man working dillgently for the same goal that all the players of today and years past have worked toward. The US Open 9 Ball Championships.

To me this is an easy call for the ABP. Yes the forest is behind the trees.

Billy I.

I guess what I'm saying is I don't feel the open would suffer in the long run as you say. But you do know a lot more about pool than I do, I know that

But my reasoning is this.... first, even if all the players in the ABP don't show, well... there are heaps of great, top notch talent not on that list. Second, I personally love to see a matchup between a top player and a very strong local player from my area (for me a guy like sam manole, i'd love to see a top player try to fade his game in a race to 11... to me that's exciting). I guess it's poker, call their bluff or don't, and it's impossible to tell if you're going to be right or wrong. But thanks for your thoughts!! I really do agree with most of what you said is the truth, I just happen to think the open would make it without them, and they'd probably come crawling back one day. Best.

 

[vagabond]

........ I personally love to see a matchup between a top player and a very strong local player from my area (for me a guy like sam manole, i'd love to see a top player try to fade his game .......

Sam is just not a strong local player. He is a pro speed player.
If u categorize the pros into UPPER, MIDDLE, and LOWER TIER, Sam Manole falls into Middle Tier pro category.

 

[JAM]

Sam is just not a strong local player. He is a pro speed player.
If u categorize the pros into UPPER, MIDDLE, and LOWER TIER, Sam Manole falls into Middle Tier pro category.

I saw him in Ohio one time at the Glass City Open, and Keith told me that he was not to be taken for granted. He can explode with proficiency at any time on the field of green.

I think what separates the lions from the lambs is consistency. The players whose games are consistent will continue to rise to the top. Some of the lower and middle tier players have moments of greatness, but they're just not as consistent as the upper tier.

Looks like the BCA has stepped into this mess and is offering itself in a mediator role, so no lawyers will be needed, thank goodness. I applaud the BCA's efforts.

My only question is this. Let's say the BCA collects the entry fees, which as we all know many of them will be paid on the day before tournament begins. How on earth will Barry, et al., be able to produce a tournament chart, do the draw and the seeding the day of the tournament? This seems like a communication nightmare. Is the BCA in Colorado? Will somebody from the BCA be on site in Virginia at the Open?

Plus, if the BCA is holding the dough, then how will the players be paid at the tournament site after they are knocked out of the event? Will a check be mailed to them sine die?

Well, these are questions that may have an answer already, but they do make me wonder how the logistics of this are going to be handled.

 

[alstl]

If he can't find more sponsor money another option is to reduce payouts.

 

[The Chinchilla]

Sam is just not a strong local player. He is a pro speed player.
If u categorize the pros into UPPER, MIDDLE, and LOWER TIER, Sam Manole falls into Middle Tier pro category.

I stand corrected, Shane is NOT a "very strong local player," haha. Point really is i'd love to see matchuos like this.

 

[shinobi]

I thought Barry was Jewish - they are supposed to be business savy, right?

It's 2011 and you still haven't caught on that it's ignorant to imply that all people of a particular religion are business "savy" (savvy)? Really?

After all the dust settles and Barry is allowed to keep a reasonable profit percentage, then the players would share what is left over on a percentage basis.

How much money do you think he is making, if any? Especially given the core problem and reason for the boycott is players not receiving their monies in a timely fashion.

This ain't rocket science - all you need is a few creative people to make this happen!!!

It is meaningless to say it's easy when it isn't. From your point of view he probably just needs to ask some other business "savy" Jewish people I suppose, and everything will be made right in a hurry.

 

[whitewolf]

It's 2011 and you still haven't caught on that it's ignorant to imply that all people of a particular religion are business "savy" (savvy)? Really?



How much money do you think he is making, if any? Especially given the core problem and reason for the boycott is players not receiving their monies in a timely fashion.



It is meaningless to say it's easy when it isn't. From your point of view he probably just needs to ask some other business "savy" Jewish people I suppose, and everything will be made right in a hurry.

People in the regular business world make these temporary 'partnerships', for lack of a better word, all the time.

For example, someone may own a flower shop and wants to sell out to his only partner. A reasonable price would be maybe one years worth of net profits, or 10% of gross revenues, or whatever the parties accept as reasonable. You know, the law of supply and demand.

There are lawyers that tackle this kind of stuff EVERY day. Once Barry and the pool players realize that they both need each other, then a deal should be made.

Barry has his records going back quite a while. Let's say to rent the 'arena' costs $100,000. Add in all the other expenses and if everything came to $200,000, and if the projected gross receipts (from past history) are $400,000 that would would yield a gross margin of $200,000, to be split up.

Let's say the players (using the lawyers recommendation) come up with a figure that Barry should be able to keep 10% of the gross revenues (not to exceed say 20% of the net profit), or $40,000 in this case, that would leave the players able to split the remaining $160,000, any freaking way they so choose to do so.

Receipts would be kept in an escrow account. Vendors, help, etc. would get paid first. To get started, Barry would have to take this plan to the bank to borrow some money. He would probably get some kind of insurance to avoid hurricane losses (I'm sure Lloyd's of London would offer something). This may be costly, I am not sure, and it could be a deal breaker and make this arrangement not quite so simple as I stated, but maybe do-able. Maybe with all this risk taking Barry should get a bigger cut, but that is negotiable with the players.

BTW, this is the only way I see this deal happening. Barry sure faces a LOT of risk, and I don't think the players see this, or care.

Regards, WW