Legendary Muscle

[freddy the beard]

Danny Di

DiLiberto was probably the most undercover tush-hog because of his small size. He had a lightning punch that could knock down a wall. In his seventies he still has an unbelievably fast punch.

the Beard

 

[Thecoats]

Pretty common in the midwest

Tush Hog? I've been around in 7 different decades and that one got by me. Sounds so friggin gay for a tough guy-reminds me of 'Rump Wrangler' If i was a Tush Hog, nobody better call me that.

I have lived in Texas, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Missouri and Kansas and tush hog is a fairly common term for tough guy in these parts of the country.

 

[Jack Madden]

I have lived in Texas, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Missouri and Kansas and tush hog is a fairly common term for tough guy in these parts of the country.

Same in Arizona in 60s and 70s, but Phoenix has become a major city because of the transplants from Chicago and CA (not to mention Mexico and beyond) so not sure that term is used much anymore.

 

[fan-tum]

You don't need to be unimposing to get stiffed. Welcome to the large and non-exclusive club of stiffees.

 

[midnightpulp]

DiLiberto was probably the most undercover tush-hog because of his small size. He had a lightning punch that could knock down a wall. In his seventies he still has an unbelievably fast punch.

the Beard

He was a pro fighter wasn't he?

That's why I think he would've drilled Daddy Warbucks if they went to the bathroom to "work it out" but I'm sure Danny knew Hubert wouldn't have fought fair.

 

[Matt_24]

You don't bring fists to a gunfight.

 

[freddy the beard]

Fought fair?

He was a pro fighter wasn't he?

That's why I think he would've drilled Daddy Warbucks if they went to the bathroom to "work it out" but I'm sure Danny knew Hubert wouldn't have fought fair.

Danny was an undefeated (16 wins) pro fighter. He had to quit because he hit so hard he destroyed his knuckles and hands. However, taking nothing from Danny, Hubert was probably the toughest sonofabi*ch in the country with a gun or his fists. But he was 70 at the time, and he probably would have pulled one of his 3 pistols on Danny. On top of all that, Hubert usually had a few killer bodyguards lurking around.

the Beard

I have reorganized and updated my blog for easier scrolling. Take a look.

 

[avmaster]

I'll be around for 7 decades in 3 more years and I don't think I ever heard the term before I came on AZBilliards either. Maybe it depends what part of the country your from. We called them weight or attitude changers. If he was carrying it was "I'll bring some heat along just in case." Johnnyt

I'm still 6 away from 7 decades, I've never heard that one either. I was pretty much under any road players radar. For me it was my backup guy, and, yeah, packin heat....

My backup guy got involved in Va one time. Played a kid for a few sets of 9, he went away in a pout. Came back with a buddy from the shipyard that was a black belt in karate and a local bad dude. He hollered at me and when I turned around he went into a flying kick that my guy, DAO, got in front of. The kick landed in DAO's chest, the guy went to the floor, rolled, and when he came up he was shocked to see DAO still standing. DAO grabbed a handful of his throat with his right hand jerking him up off the floor and slaping him on the ear with his left, then back on the other ear. The guy was bleeding from both ears. DAO carried him in his right hand out the door and put him on the sidewalk telling him never to come back. DAO walked back in rubbed his chest and says to me, "damn, that hurt" The next day he had a bruise on his sturnum that was black, purple, green and ugly.

DAO was 40 something at the time, 6 foot, 280 lbs, had a 54 " chest. This was 1967 I think.......

I asked him later why he didn't just hit the clown. He said he was so mad, if he'd hit him he'd a killed him.

 

[Matt_24]

We were at the poolroom one time and this guy was in there who was a local thug, drug-dealer, gun-toting, fist-fighting, awnry dude. He was real big too. Like 6 3' and probably 200lbs all muscle.

Anyhow, one day he was on the pay phone talking to some girl and getting so mad. He was referencing that some dude had, well, been with her, and was getting so worked up. I mean he was screaming, and tears were in his eyes (tears of madness and anger)....we all just tried to pretend like we didn't see him, it was very intimidating. He was yelling and having this outburst for a solid 5 minutes and I was hoping that everyone just left him alone, which they did...LOL. He finally hung up and stormed out.

It doesn't sound like a big deal in words - but it was actually quite a sight to see. This monster (who you knew was a bad dude) screaming, cursing, and crying at his girlfriend. I thought, " The idiot who messed with this dude's girl is in deep doo-doo." after seeing how he was acting.

I've seen plenty of other fights and stuff in pool rooms, but this one stands out more to me.

 

[satman]

I had a friend of mine, who used to do the road, tell me about how they'd deal with the local Tush-hogs. They'd get into town on Thursday night and find out who the tush hogs were. On Friday night they'd slip them a little mickey in their drink and it was stuff that would give them the shi!s for a couple of days.
Not that I support any kind of drugging people, but seemed like a way to get them out of the picture. Always keep a close eye on your drinks. There are still a few of those people out there.

 

[uwate]

DiLiberto was probably the most undercover tush-hog because of his small size. He had a lightning punch that could knock down a wall. In his seventies he still has an unbelievably fast punch.

the Beard

Just a year ago or so I was in Hollywood Billiards in South Florida and Danny was in there telling some war stories with a few railbirds around him listening. Danny starts to talk about something to do with fighting and to demonstrate he puts up his hands, clenches them into fists and then fires a few jabs in the direction of a nearby railbird. it was almost like those chinese kung fu movies where the guys throw a punch and the air around goes fhoooooom. Danny still has some quick hands, thats for sure.

 

[Matt_24]

Here is a cool story. There was a guy who played around our way who was about 5 ft. 5 and a martial art's expert (and tough little bastard). He put a phone book against this guy's chest one time, did some kind of open hand punch against the phone book and put this guy on his butt, gasping for air. The guy had a huge red bruise on his chest for a week afterwards. The little guy said if he could just hit him like that, that solid, with no phone book it could potentially kill him. Crazy stuff.

I think MasonH might remember the guy - his name was Randy something. Short, stocky, balled guy with red hair and facial hair. Played REALLY good pool and nice guy!

 

[Johnnyt]

One weekend night in 1960 during a bad snowstorm I walked into a place called the Parkview Lounge in Rockville Center, Long Island, NY. They had two bar tables there that always had $5-$10 action on weekends. If I were around the area I?d always stop in for two or three hours to pick up $50 to $100 on the table.

This night when I walked in, there was a friend of mine at the bar, Blondie the bartender, and about five others sitting at the bar. The place was dead because of the snowstorm. I notice on the back pool table ?Punch Drunk Charlie? was knocking balls around. Charlie was a local heavyweight who mostly just was a sparing partner. I know the Floyd Patterson camp use to use him when Floyd was training in the area. Floyd is a nice guy and use to live in the next town to the North.

This guy was very unstable. You never knew what or who would set him off. So knowing all this, dumb-ass me goes back and asks him if he wanted to play some $10 a game 8-ball. He says yes and we play. I beat him the first game and ask for my money. He says he quits and walks to the bar and plops his butt down. I ask him for my $10 again and he says I?m a hustler and he?s not paying. I swing the cue I?m holding at his head butt first, forgetting it was one of those fiberglass breakaway cues they tried in NY for awhile to cut down on bad head injuries and deaths.

Anyhow I nail him with my homerun swing and Kenny my friend shatters a beer bottle to the other side of his head. I?m waiting for him to slide to the floor so I can do a tap dance on him and I can take my money. He just shook his head a little and started to get up. Kenny and I ran for the front door with Charlie not far behind yelling, ?I?m going to kill you JT?. This was about one in the morning. It was still snowing hard, the main road in front of the place had no traffic at all on it. You could have shot a cannon down it w/o hitting anything.

I had dress shoes on that froze like two miniature snowboards in seconds. I couldn?t get any traction and this monster is breathing down my neck. Somehow we kept ahead of him until we got around the back of the bar and got in Kenny?s car and took off with Crazy Charlie trying to bunch the window out. We both stopped in a bar in the next town and slammed down a few quick boilermakers to calm down. I checked to see if I needed to change my underwear, but was OK in that department.

Two nights later I?m coming back from Queens or Brooklyn with two big friends of mine. I know we had been at a dance club and feeling no pain. We were all hungry so stopped at the White Castle in Lynbrook for some belly-bombs. Bobby and Jr. give me their money and I go in to get the burgers. As I come back out in the revolving glass door with the sack of burgers I look in the other compartment of the door and see Punch Drunk Charlie looking at me trapped in the door. He looked like a Pitbull that hadn?t ate in a week.
Thank God by the time he got a hold of me Bobby and Jr. got him off me and convinced him to leave me alone. So no $10 and the next week I went in the Parkview Lounge I owed $30 for two bottles of booze that she said got smashed with my flying pieces of cue. Johnnyt

 

[jrhendy]

Okay, we all know about the great roadmen, champions, hustlers, even the backers, but how about a shout out for the unsung heroes of high-stakes pool: The Muscle.

What's a 120 pound hustler to do if his opponent stiffs him? Without Muscle, that ten pack he put up to win 5k means nothing.

Freddy B, Jay H, Johnny T, I'm looking to you guys here. Let's hear some good stories about those looming figures with crossed arms who may not be able to play with a cue, but sure know how to use it, if you know what I mean.

I wasn't around for this one, but it is a great story. Clem was a Filipino about 5'5 or so and 130/140 pounds. I met him at California Billiards in San Jose in the early 80's. Clem was an action guy. He bet the horses, would play a little pool and gamble at just about anything. His good friend Sonny told me this story about Clem and a guy Clem was flipping coins with at Palace Billiards in San Francisco. The bet had gone up to $100 a flip & Clem was stuck seven or eight hundred dollars. He got on a lucky streak and won all the money back plus a hundred ahead. He was paying off after each flip when he lost, and when he finally got ahead, the guy says "I owe you". Clem said - you mean you owe me and your going to go get the money right now or you just owe me. The guy, who was pretty good size looked at this little guy and said "I just owe you". Clem walked over to the cue rack and pulled a cue out. The guy got ready to fight and Clem said, No, (handing the cue to the guy) this cue is for you cause you are going to need it. If I don't get paid I'm taking $100 out of your A**. The guy handed the cue back and Clem got his money. John

 

[Rick S.]

Anyway, the game finally went off in Asheboro, NC with two guys (Derek Leonard, aka Chewtobacco, and some bookie) I layed it down pretty good, but apparently Chew and the other guy didn't like it because they bolted on the sixteenth hole down $1450 each while we were hitting our approach shots. We went after them but when we got to the clubhouse they had left there carts in the parking lot and hauled ass.

Played that course several times! It was one of my favorites because the greens were always PERFECT.

They have since 'remodeled' the 16th hole.

I had the virtually the same thing happen to me at Tanglewood course. Got stiffed the same way. The guy ran to his car (he was in first 4 some) and was long gone before we got there.

We had a regular (7-8 players) group that played 1-2 times a week. One of the guys was Eddie Garris (owner of Coliseum Billiards) These guys loved to gamble....

I miss those guys terribly!

Rick S.

 

[jay helfert]

DiLiberto was probably the most undercover tush-hog because of his small size. He had a lightning punch that could knock down a wall. In his seventies he still has an unbelievably fast punch.

the Beard

He fought under the name Danny Toriano in the 50's and early 60's. I think he had 14 fights and never lost one. Maybe twelve ended in knockouts. Like Freddie said, he kept breaking his hands and couldn't fight for months. Angelo Dundee was his trainer and they remain friends to this day.

Danny may have had a few hundred fights outside the ring. I don't know if he lost any of them either. I only was a witness to one such encounter. A big bruiser was giving Danny a hard time in a pool room in Vegas years ago. Danny warned him to calm down. I turned my back for a moment to say something to a friend of mine and I heard a loud "splat" like noise. It was the sound of fist meeting face.

And face didn't like it, because the next thing I saw was the bruiser laying on the ground moaning. It was a one punch knockout, and I missed it. Danny was standing there looking at the guy, and looked around at everyone staring at him. To no one in particular he said "I warned him, didn't I?" A few people may have nodded their heads, but no one said a word.

Danny walked over the the bar and told the bartender to get a wet towel for the guy to stop the bleeding. I'll never forget that sound. SPLAT!!

 

[alstl]

If you are looking for pool related stuff don't read this, but the toughest guy I've known personally was a marine from Brooklyn named Gutierrez. I was in the Navy but I had the same MOS as some Marines and I went to an advanced school with this guy. When I saw "Knockaround Guys" the Vin Diesel character reminded me of Gutierrez except Vin Diesel was hurting people for money and Gutierrez hurt people just because he enjoyed it. Even in Vietnam he would go out of his way to get in fights, mostly in rear areas, but dangerous because everybody had a weapon over there. The kind of a guy who could get you in trouble just by being with him, but when the $hit hit the fan you were glad this guy was on your side. As crazy as he was I liked him.

On a different level, Sonny Liston was one of the most famous enforcers in St Louis history. I never met him but I've heard plenty of stories about him. Never learned to read or write and the mob owned his contract as a fighter which isn't surprising because he was working for the mob when he was outside the ring. A legitimate tough guy if there ever was one. like another St Louisan Louie Roberts, the official story of Sonny's death is disputed by some.

I know not pool related but a couple of tough guys.

 

[Terry Ardeno]

I notice on the back pool table ?Punch Drunk Charlie? was knocking balls around. Charlie was a local heavyweight who mostly just was a sparing partner. I know the Floyd Patterson camp use to use him when Floyd was training in the area. Floyd is a nice guy and use to live in the next town to the North.
Johnnyt

Johnny,
Floyd was a nice man. Very humble & soft spoken but he also had a warrior's heart. I got my picture taken with him when he was at one of my fights in Pittsburgh.

Anyway, are you talking about "Crazy" Charlie Norkus? Floyd's chief sparring partner was a guy named Sherman Overton Jr, who fought under the name of Amos "Big Train" Lincoln. Charlie Norkus was Floyd's back-up when the Big Train was too sore!
Norkus died in 1996.

 

[midnightpulp]

Johnny,
Floyd was a nice man. Very humble & soft spoken but he also had a warrior's heart. I got my picture taken with him when he was at one of my fights in Pittsburgh.

Anyway, are you talking about "Crazy" Charlie Norkus? Floyd's chief sparring partner was a guy named Sherman Overton Jr, who fought under the name of Amos "Big Train" Lincoln. Charlie Norkus was Floyd's back-up when the Big Train was too sore!
Norkus died in 1996.

Did you use to box, Terry?

Looking at your pic, you got some guns. Ever consider dropping everything and working as muscle?

 

[Terry Ardeno]

Did you use to box, Terry?

Looking at your pic, you got some guns. Ever consider dropping everything and working as muscle?

The only thing I box now is my Accu-Stats tapes when we're moving, cleaning or painting!
I'll PM you.