Sherm,
Which of these teams are you referring to in my area that win "every year". My L.O. sent 3 8-ball and 1 9-ball teams to Vegas for this August and only 1 player on any of those teams had gone before (he went 4 years ago). We also sent 4 doubles teams and 1 masters team and ony 2 of those players have ever been before and none went last year.
I don't know about your area but in the Greater Cincinnati area this has always been true. I don't think there is any 9-ball leagues or the "Open or Masters" divisions, I've heard there were elsewhere.
Also, as I have commented before, we do not have a sandbagging problem in the league in which i play. The TAP legaue has taken most of those sandbaggers and the others have all quit. You will call me nieve, and maybe I am, but I play pool for the sake of playing pool with my wife and friends ( I am a 7) and have never been forced to "sandbag to stay together" as you call it. We replace a player or 2 every year - because a guy has gone on nights or just doesn't want to play anymore. Then we find a new low end player and we are all good.
I can't call you a liar, I don't know you, but if you say there is no sandbagging problem in your league, you're either naive or have been so used to seeing it you don't even recognize it as such. Maybe your team has been able to stay together because the player have topped out. They aren't capable of improving, even though I find that remarkable that if there is a "7" on the team, your team mates aren't able to learn to improve. I find that "mind boggeling"!
Also, as you have stated before, you belive the 23 rule is designed to split up teams. Again, you will likely call me nieve, but could it be that the primary purpose of the 23 rule is to keep teams from stacking a team so that they don't dominate other teams as happens in BCA and TAP in my area. In fact, the same TAP team won 3 years in a row and their hadicaps went down the third year. I actually played on the BCA team that won every year and our league went from 16 teams down to 6 because of it.
You can believe that BS if you want, but it's just that BS. I've even had LO's come into my bar trying to sell me on having the APA in my bar who explained this as part of the APA's big plan! The "23 rule" is close to being a pyramid scheme, and is only really there to make more teams and more money for the APA! I've never played in a BCA or TAP league, but if they have a "23 rule" I'll boycott them too. If "stacking teams" were the issue, that doesn't say much for their handicap system, does it. If the handicap system worked, the "23 rule" would be totally unnecessary except to divide teams to make more money!
If splitting of teams is a by-product of the 23 rule then so be it. If you have a problem with somebody at the APA making money, then you must have a problem with a capitalist system. They have designed a leqague system that 250,000 + people like and if they make money, then good for them. That is how business works. Is it safe to assume that you sell your produst for a profit.
"So be it " hell! That's stupid! And I don't begrudge anyone making money, I just don't like to be gouged and lied to about why they are gouging me. And what makes you think that the 250,000 league member "like the system"? I don't know a single person in any of the APA leagues I've played in that like the system! Most play because it's the only game in town. That's whats so sad!
As for the APA in genreal, it has been said in many posts (and i know you have read them because you seem to have a lot to say to APA Operator on many occassions) the success of an individual league is mainly up to the L.O. In my area, the L.O.'s are great. They put alot back in to the league and they should get paid becuase that is their business and they do a good job at it. There may be some area's where the L.O. sucks and if that is the case, that is too bad because players will miss out on what they could otherwise have.
In my area we've had some bad LO's and some terrible ones. I can't speak for the ones now from a personal perspective because I've been boycotting the league for about 10 years. But I also played in the league for over 10 years and was NEVER at any time happy with it, but I hoped in the beginning that we could change it from within. That didn't work, any complaints about the rules, especially the stupid "23 Rule" always fell on deaf ears! I went so far as to purchase the franchise for the "Heart Of Ohio Pool League" back in the 90's and frankly I've never seen anything so easy to sell! We were eating the APA's lunch the first year and Lunch & Dinner by the second year! All I had to tell the bar owners was that "It's not the APA. They don't punish teams for improving!" For 2 years I ran it pretty much single handedly and I wanted out! I don't begrudge the LO's making a decent living, they certainly earn it! But the guys at the top, Terry Bell and Larry Hubbart are getting stinking rich! And I wouldn't even care about that if they did it without the "23 Rule"! That is what ruins the league play. They're no longer playing pool, they're playing a numbers game to keep their handicaps where they need to be so their team can stay together. The concept of breaking up a team of guys who have played together for a season or two and improved their game a SL or 2 in that time and gone over that magic number of 23 is in my mind outrageous! Maybe they don't want to play on a different team with new and different players, their only option is to play that sandbagging game. There are even books out there that tell team captains how to manipulate their team into the Nationals in Vegas! To say this doesn't happen is very close minded and naive.
Bottom line, the APA is only what you make out of it. If you are looking to make money, wrong league for you. If you are looking for a good time with a fair chance to win a trip (or a small amount of cash in my area) then the APA is lilely for you. Not everyone will like it but for someone who is in the pool business to suggest that we should all boycott the APA is pretty dumb in my opinion. While I don't have any numbers to prove this, I would guess that the APA brings more NEW players to the game than any other organization. If i am wrong, could somebody please tell me who brings in more "grassroots players"
Regards,
Leagueguy
