classiccues said:
Let's talk about accountability. Since we all are buying and selling, where do you draw the line at factual representation? This is coming from another thread and I am just curious to how you would act as the buyer and / or the seller? You buy a cue from a dealer or person, and they tell you one thing.. but you find out something different? Where do you think the accountability lies? Really you can only trust the person you bought it from, so what happens if down the road an issue pops up?
Accountability lies with the seller who sold you the cue. Had one instance where we bought a late "Gus" from somebody who turned out to be a liar. The cue turned out to be a real early Barry. Price was marginal and it wasn't a bad deal then as a Barry, so we didn't pursue anything....but this brings up a good point. If you buy a Paradise at a Rich price, then you shouldn't be upset if it turns out the be a Rich. I feel the same way about other things....i.e. a Kers vs an early SW or Omega. If you buy a Gus or a Bushka for $20k and it turns out to indeed be a Verl Horn, then you obviously have a problem. But if you buy it as a Gus in today's market for $2k, then you have no reason to be upset at anyone. You were trying to steal it.
classiccues said:
You buy a cue as a South West, you sell it the same way.. two owners later it's really a KC. It comes back to you, what do you do?
Personally I would try to work something out with my original purchaser to make the deal right and ensure that things would be taken care of down the line.
classiccues said:
A person selling a cue has it misrepresented on their site, do you owe it to your friends to point it out to them, on a forum? If you don't like the dealer should you tell him anyway?
Wow, much touchier one here !! This forum is not so good in that there are obvious preformed alliances where some uninformed buyers sometimes pump up certain sellers/dealers who might have questionable experience, motives, and ethics. Unfortunately the scene is such that to bring light to these issues and/or correct something that's blatantly wrong in any manner here on the forum more often than not makes you, the discloser look bad. Many people know this, therefore won't post publicly as to their true thoughts. IMHO things like this problem makes the community here weak. Why go out on a limb when you will take the heat ?? I suspect this thread won't get a whole lot of opinions either, but I would like to be proven wrong. This is also close to being the reason why some of our most revered cuemakers refuse to post here.
And yes, people should regardless of whether they like or dislike the dealer....but as I said, sometimes being correct comes with an associated cost.
Private messages sometimes don't work with those that do not wish to be called into question.
classiccues said:
You buy a Paradise, but find out its a Rich cue. Is it your fault for not doing due dilligence? What if the seller really didn't know either way and says hey thats how I bought it?!?!?! Are you stuck?
Yes, I feel that all buyers owe it to themselves to be more informed. Dealers obviously should be able to show people why something is A or why not B, but unfortunately some may talk like they know when they really don't. If any seller (dealer or non-dealer) really doesn't know either way, then you as a buyer should not be paying premium for the item anyway. That's foolish. And yes, you probably would be stuck in that scenario. But especially if you are a dealer, you owe it to the industry, your customers, and other collectors and buffs down the line to represent your items as correctly and diligently as you possibly can. And when someone who knows something about an item that has exchanged hands numerous times corrects you, then imo you don't be an a$$hole ***** about it.
Another thing to remember with collectibles, not all things can be authenticated. Something may have had some work done at some point, cuemaker may be so esoteric, etc. That's not a bad thing.....but this certainly explains why cues that are known to the masses and have been formally authenticated by reputable experts and/or other associated documented/documentable provenance should command the premium prices. And other cues that may have had some work done along the way shouldn't command those premium prices.
classiccues said:
Would you expect a stick to go 4-5 owners back to get rectified?
Just curious to see what other people would do in this situation.
JV
No, I personally would not. Would probably just chalk it up to another learning experience (who to trust, who not to buy from, who else might have known and was in on it, etc.) But if the cue had exchanged hands where several people were involved in an outright collusion to deceive and I had severely overpaid for something that was not what is was purported to have been, then yes, your damn right I'd hope that I was taken care of by someone who was in on the scam. I would like to state here for the record that I don't personally know of any situations like this one just above, but like others probably, I too have heard rumors about funny Bushkas leaving the states soon after the COM.
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Joe, this is a great forum topic....shame it had to come out of the other thread. People should be open and honest, that's what can make this place a great forum and community. For the most part it self-polices itself, but sometimes that is an option that does not work....unfortunately.
