Mark Wilson stands down as United States captain

I don't really understand how one can criticize the technique of Shane Vane Boening- perhaps the best player in the world and if not that a certain top 5. Also, it is difficult to criticize the technique of Rodney Morris as well- how can a guy who has won the US Open 9 ball and 10 ball have such flawed technique?

How can I be critical of Shane and Rodney? Pretty easily when you consider that everybody that's playing is a truly world class talent so everything must go under the microscope in this setting. If all else is equal and one player has a flaw, even a minor one, it's going to rear its ugly head in this environment. So while both players are great in one sense, in comparison to the best in the world I think their technique is lacking.

First Rodney, he is an old fashioned, loosey-goosey, feel player. That's fine and dandy if you are locking horns with a guy for hours on end and can outrun a few mistakes but if every rack needs to be played as if it's hill-hill that style just doesn't cut it. He will inevitably one-stroke a ball at the worst time either overrunning position or missing the ball completely. Jayson Shaw sort of plays this same style but he delivers his cue about as straight as anyone in the world. So as talented as Shaw even is, you can see where this style of play got him in to trouble at the Mosconi.

And Shane.....I know he's a great champion but that long and hitchy stroke of his lets him down seemingly out of nowhere each and every year. Shane has so much going on with his stroke that being comfortable and in rhythm at the table is probably more important that it is for players with more compact and rigid cueing fundamentals -- like Darren Appleton or even more so Mark Gray. I think for Shane to play his best he has to constantly be on the table to keep all these moving parts in line. If you watch Shane closely like I have, you will see his entire arm moves onto a different plane DURING the shot. It may be a small move but like I said we are talking about the best of the best here so all these minor issues come into play.

I didn't even mention Dechaine. That guy has so much talent. He could get a ball better over night if he would just commit to staying still. He literally moves on just about every single shot. If he spent time fixing that he would certainly be more solid under pressure.
 
Maybe some of you can educate me on the expected impact of the Mosconi Cup coach.

As I see it there is no financial incentive for team members to practice together to form a cohesive team. It may actually be just the opposite as these guys are normally competing against one another for a fairly small pot of money on the professional circuit.

Since team members are not selected until shortly before the event what should be expected of a coach to bring to the team?

How much knowledge can be imparted by a coach in the abbreviated time the team is together and how willing are these guys to be coached?

Basically I'm thinking this whole coach thing is overrated since there really is not a system in place to truly build a team.
 
I just think if Mike Page was captain he would use Fargorate for his wildcard picks and we would have the best shot of winning every year that way.
Fargo ratings? Seriously? I thought you were kidding.
 
Maybe some of you can educate me on the expected impact of the Mosconi Cup coach.

As I see it there is no financial incentive for team members to practice together to form a cohesive team. It may actually be just the opposite as these guys are normally competing against one another for a fairly small pot of money on the professional circuit.

Since team members are not selected until shortly before the event what should be expected of a coach to bring to the team?

How much knowledge can be imparted by a coach in the abbreviated time the team is together and how willing are these guys to be coached?

Basically I'm thinking this whole coach thing is overrated since there really is not a system in place to truly build a team.


Winner winner chicken dinner
Jason
 
Maybe some of you can educate me on the expected impact of the Mosconi Cup coach.

As I see it there is no financial incentive for team members to practice together to form a cohesive team. It may actually be just the opposite as these guys are normally competing against one another for a fairly small pot of money on the professional circuit.

Since team members are not selected until shortly before the event what should be expected of a coach to bring to the team?

How much knowledge can be imparted by a coach in the abbreviated time the team is together and how willing are these guys to be coached?

Basically I'm thinking this whole coach thing is overrated since there really is not a system in place to truly build a team.
Agree 100% Coach is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY overrated.
 
Fargo ratings? Seriously? I thought you were kidding.

Basicly they did
1st
2nd
3rd
5th
7th

3 points difference between 7th and 4th. Not sure how she thinks somebody else making the EXACT same picks would change anything?
Jason
 
In case you guys didn't already know, we just interviewed Mark Wilson on ABR. It's worth a listen.

IMO the right coach can help, but I think that the kind of help we need will fall moreso on the shoulders of each player. Nobody can sharpen your skills for you.

That said, I also happen to think that the u.s. needs their own event to challenge Europe in a style or format other than 9ball tiddlywinks.
 
How can I be critical of Shane and Rodney? Pretty easily when you consider that everybody that's playing is a truly world class talent so everything must go under the microscope in this setting. If all else is equal and one player has a flaw, even a minor one, it's going to rear its ugly head in this environment. So while both players are great in one sense, in comparison to the best in the world I think their technique is lacking.

First Rodney, he is an old fashioned, loosey-goosey, feel player. That's fine and dandy if you are locking horns with a guy for hours on end and can outrun a few mistakes but if every rack needs to be played as if it's hill-hill that style just doesn't cut it. He will inevitably one-stroke a ball at the worst time either overrunning position or missing the ball completely. Jayson Shaw sort of plays this same style but he delivers his cue about as straight as anyone in the world. So as talented as Shaw even is, you can see where this style of play got him in to trouble at the Mosconi.

And Shane.....I know he's a great champion but that long and hitchy stroke of his lets him down seemingly out of nowhere each and every year. Shane has so much going on with his stroke that being comfortable and in rhythm at the table is probably more important that it is for players with more compact and rigid cueing fundamentals -- like Darren Appleton or even more so Mark Gray. I think for Shane to play his best he has to constantly be on the table to keep all these moving parts in line. If you watch Shane closely like I have, you will see his entire arm moves onto a different plane DURING the shot. It may be a small move but like I said we are talking about the best of the best here so all these minor issues come into play.

I didn't even mention Dechaine. That guy has so much talent. He could get a ball better over night if he would just commit to staying still. He literally moves on just about every single shot. If he spent time fixing that he would certainly be more solid under pressure.

Great post and spot on.
 
Seeing that the loser of the Mosconi Cup has a guarenteed $10k paycheck, is it too much to ask for the team to get together for at least 1 week before the Mosconi Cup starts in order to practice and bond?

They should actually get together and play a couple of challenge matches with a couple of other strong teams to get used to the format. That would help a lot.
 
It would take a benefactor to fund them for a year.

No gambling, no tournaments.

Live, eat, sleep, work, military style.

Seal-like training for pool players. Drills. Safeties. Jumping. Kicking. Potting.

Rinse and repeat.

Study the tapes. Set up the balls and perform the shots until you get it right.

I don't know how you would simulate the pressure. Short rations if you mess up?
 
It would take a benefactor to fund them for a year.

No gambling, no tournaments.

Live, eat, sleep, work, military style.

Seal-like training for pool players. Drills. Safeties. Jumping. Kicking. Potting.

Rinse and repeat.

Study the tapes. Set up the balls and perform the shots until you get it right.

I don't know how you would simulate the pressure. Short rations if you mess up?

Ummm...let them gamble and play in tournaments?
 
How can I be critical of Shane and Rodney? Pretty easily when you consider that everybody that's playing is a truly world class talent so everything must go under the microscope in this setting. If all else is equal and one player has a flaw, even a minor one, it's going to rear its ugly head in this environment. So while both players are great in one sense, in comparison to the best in the world I think their technique is lacking.

First Rodney, he is an old fashioned, loosey-goosey, feel player. That's fine and dandy if you are locking horns with a guy for hours on end and can outrun a few mistakes but if every rack needs to be played as if it's hill-hill that style just doesn't cut it. He will inevitably one-stroke a ball at the worst time either overrunning position or missing the ball completely. Jayson Shaw sort of plays this same style but he delivers his cue about as straight as anyone in the world. So as talented as Shaw even is, you can see where this style of play got him in to trouble at the Mosconi.

And Shane.....I know he's a great champion but that long and hitchy stroke of his lets him down seemingly out of nowhere each and every year. Shane has so much going on with his stroke that being comfortable and in rhythm at the table is probably more important that it is for players with more compact and rigid cueing fundamentals -- like Darren Appleton or even more so Mark Gray. I think for Shane to play his best he has to constantly be on the table to keep all these moving parts in line. If you watch Shane closely like I have, you will see his entire arm moves onto a different plane DURING the shot. It may be a small move but like I said we are talking about the best of the best here so all these minor issues come into play.

I didn't even mention Dechaine. That guy has so much talent. He could get a ball better over night if he would just commit to staying still. He literally moves on just about every single shot. If he spent time fixing that he would certainly be more solid under pressure.

My point is that the Mosconi Cup doesn't exactly reveal who the most skilled or talented players are. If top notch champions like Morris (although he didn't play poorly this year) and Shane don't shine through, maybe people are putting too much stock in the outcome of the MC. Short races, alternating break, 9 ball on the spot- etc. isn't exactly the truest way to determine who is best.

Perhaps if the game was 10 ball, winner break, longer races the US would still be considered on par with or better than Europe. People are bemoaning how bad the US players are when perhaps one of the main issues is the format.
 
My point is that the Mosconi Cup doesn't exactly reveal who the most skilled or talented players are. If top notch champions like Morris (although he didn't play poorly this year) and Shane don't shine through, maybe people are putting too much stock in the outcome of the MC. Short races, alternating break, 9 ball on the spot- etc. isn't exactly the truest way to determine who is best.

Perhaps if the game was 10 ball, winner break, longer races the US would still be considered on par with or better than Europe. People are bemoaning how bad the US players are when perhaps one of the main issues is the format.
About the "didn't play poorly this year" part, on the first day of play at the MC, he had a total of 10 shots. Of those 10 shots, 5 of them were errors of some sort. On the other hand, based on his match record this year, he was the MVP for the US team.

The MC is at a minimum a race to 55 which seems like a reasonable test. The nine has to go on the spot to avoid a dead wing ball. And if you look at the math (and ignore any hypothetical psychological "momentum" from winner-breaks) the expected match outcomes for winner breaks and alternate breaks are identical.
 
My point is that the Mosconi Cup doesn't exactly reveal who the most skilled or talented players are. If top notch champions like Morris (although he didn't play poorly this year) and Shane don't shine through, maybe people are putting too much stock in the outcome of the MC. Short races, alternating break, 9 ball on the spot- etc. isn't exactly the truest way to determine who is best.

Perhaps if the game was 10 ball, winner break, longer races the US would still be considered on par with or better than Europe. People are bemoaning how bad the US players are when perhaps one of the main issues is the format.





So how many short race events must we lose in a row before we start working on our weaknesses and stop making excuses?

Apparently it's more than 7.
 
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