Matlock is tired of all of the lies..

[Thecoats]

I'd like to see any bar table player match up against Warren Kiamco in a long set, my money is on Kiamco

Scotty Townsend beat Warren in an 8 ahead on the bar table last year at the Shooter's during the weekend of the big 10 Ring Ball Tourney. This was the famous match where Warren's stake horse was trying to negotiate the spot and Scotty said said you can shove the 8-ball up your azz let's just play even. Scotty proceeded to snap it off in about in about three hours, it was a great match to watch both players played very well and there were several swings in the score during the match.

I am not sure if Scotty would have done the same with David, but that is just my opinion.

-don

 

[Scott Lee]

No disrepect to Mika, but until Larry is dead, there will never be more than ONE "Ice Man"...and that is Larry Hubbart. Mika did not pen this name on himself (I believe it was some 'turkey' commentator), but, imo, he should have nixed it, out of respect for Larry Hubbart!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

In the 70s the original "Ice Man" Larry Hubbart, was a monster bar table player. Dave, has said Larry beat him on the bar table for serious money.

 

[Keith McCready]

With all due respect. If you beat david in OKC in under an hour, i guarantee you would got another 1 or 2 sessions fired right back at you. During this time, if you could beat David,you could bust the whole state of Oklahoma. I assure you; the okies thought David Matlock was the greatest thing next to sliced bread. He had some of the biggest pockets at that time. Several oil men who thought they were being naughty for staking pool players and got their rocks off, doing it. And if you did indeed beat him like you said you did, I promise they would be flipping the coin for the next set. Now Keith i do remember when you beat James Walden handily for about 10,000, i was in OKC when you did it, didn't see it but i heard about it. I think you could have the games and the guys confused. Because David says it never happened this way.

Clint, I never said it took an hour to play David in Oklahoma.

I did say that it took less than an hour at the Childress tournament. That was not in Oklahoma. I played David twice in Richmond, Kentucky, one 5-ahead set and one 10-ahead set the next night. Big Dean backed me playing David the 10-ahead set for 5,000. I remember it very well. He gave me a thousand dollars out of 5,000. I wanted to throw up.

It is kind of funny that David remembers the environment in Kentucky during the 5-ahead set but not remember the 10-ahead set the next night. Ask David about the gaff f*ing table in Dallas. Every time he broke the balls, he made 3 and 4 balls on the break, and every time I broke the balls, I made zero. The cueball would go straight up in the air, squat, and I made zero for hours and hours and hours and hours and hours. It was like a buzzer went off every time he broke the balls. They would drop in the pockets. Every time I broke, nothing. I still believe to this day that that was a buzzer table at Springer's house.

I know all about the oil men and all the backers that David had because I gambled with every one of them.

I am going to try to call David up this week and straighten this out. I don't want him to ever think I am talking trash about him. He is my friend. I ain't trying to start a war. I like David a lot.

I have all the respect for David in the world, but David never played me in my prime. I was in my prime in the '70s, not the '80s, just to set the record straight, since everybody seems to want to get the facts out there. Let's not forget that I gave Larry Hubbart the 8 and 9 right before he went to Oklahoma City and beat David -- even. I beat him two 8-ahead sets faster than you can blink for 4 dimes apiece. I'm not sure what all this means, but that's the way it was. I was there.

 

[Scott Lee]

JAM...You're correct for many teachers, but not all. Randyg is considered one of the best (if not THE best) teacher anywhere on the planet, who just happened to play the best pool of his life, last May in the BCAPL, taking 2nd Place in the national tournament, in his division. That's pretty decent playing skills, if you ask me! He has also played on teams that have won national championships, in past years.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Ch They can talk the talk, but unfortunately, the teachers may not be able to walk the walk.

As one example, Keith always refers to his "feels" for some shots. Try explaining what a "feel" is. That's why we need teachers. :grin:

JAM

 

[Scott Lee]

Sorry Jenny, but if the shoe fits... You, of all people, should be acutely aware of the comment I made, which is especially true for players who 'grew up' during the drug/alcohol induced haze of the 60's, 70's, & 80's. It has been mentioned here many times, about great players being "juiced" on one thing or another, and playing superpool. Perhaps I should change the term 'most' to 'many'. For that I apoligize...although I was there, and I still stand by my statement.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

You do seem to stereotype pool players in the same light, Scott. That doesn't quite seem fair.

JAM

 

[uwate]

I have noticed that some of the old school players say "I gave him the 8 and 9" in nineball. What does that mean ..give you the 9?

 

[JAM]

Sorry Jenny, but if the shoe fits... You, of all people, should be acutely aware of the comment I made, which is especially true for players who 'grew up' during the drug/alcohol induced haze of the 60's, 70's, & 80's. It has been mentioned here many times, about great players being "juiced" on one thing or another, and playing superpool. Perhaps I should change the term 'most' to 'many'. For that I apoligize...although I was there, and I still stand by my statement.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

When the shoe is on the other foot, it kind of rings a little different jingle, depending on the topic.

Just like all teachers of pool are lobsters on a field of green may rub some teachers the wrong way, it is the same with pool players. Not all of them were smoking, snorting, and getting drunk in the '60s, '70s, and '80s. I am acutely aware of that fact because I know some who would never touch the stuff and played good. Cigar Tom Vanover from Baltimore was one of them.

JAM

 

[Scott Lee]

JAM...Right! That's exactly what I said! MOST of them were smoking, snorting, and getting drunk. You name ONE person. Name 100 (out of the 'top' 1000 players...and that would still be only 10% that played sober), and you have a leg to stand on. I'm not badmouthing anybody! That was the way of the times, and recreational drug use was more the norm, than the exception. I'd be lying if I said I didn't 'partake' then either! BTW, for the record, tobacco/nicotine is a drug too (as is aspirin)!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Not all of them were smoking, snorting, and getting drunk in the '60s, '70s, and '80s. I am acutely aware of that fact because I know some who would never touch the stuff and played good. Cigar Tom Vanover from Baltimore was one of them.

JAM

 

[JAM]

JAM...Right! That's exactly what I said! MOST of them were smoking, snorting, and getting drunk. You name ONE person. Name 100 (out of the 'top' 1000 players...and that would still be only 10% that played sober), and you have a leg to stand on. I'm not badmouthing anybody! That was the way of the times, and recreational drug use was more the norm, than the exception. I'd be lying if I said I didn't 'partake' then either! BTW, for the record, tobacco/nicotine is a drug too (as is aspirin)!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I have been trying to live a healthier lifestyle for the past five or six years by eating well-balanced meals, limiting my red meat to once a week, et cetera. We have fresh vegetables at every dinner, steamed usually.

I am having trouble with my sleep. I can't sleep more than four hours tops, without waking up. When I was younger, I could sleep ten hours, no problem.

I just gave up the cigarettes this past February. I quit drinking alcohol in 1978.

I refuse to give up my coffee, but I know that has to soon go as well because of my heart. I love my triple-shot, one pump of sugar-free vanilla, skim with whipped cream lattes. And yeah, it's an addiction. :grin:

JAM

 

[jay helfert]

Has David or Keith won a bar table championship? Just curious. Ive tried to find the info but was unable. If not, does anybody else find that more than just a little interesting? I did see that Matlock has played in them and not won. To claim to be the best ever you have to pass more than just the "I" test. I saw Matlock play and he was the best, I saw Keith play and he was the best. It would be more than just a little contradictory to me if the actual recorded results from tournaments say they were not the best in that tourney.
Say what you will regarding tournament play vs cash play. I play a lot of poker and pool, in tournaments you get one shot to show your best. You don't have the luxury of just pulling out wads of money to play again. So what, you get to keep gambling with someone until you finally win or scare them with a lot of money? That to me isn't putting yourself under pressure. NOT being able play endlessly because of money is. In a tournament it doesn't matter how many rich oil backers you know. They can't help you. You need to do it, you get one chance to beat your opponent, each match, and thats it.
Having one chance to beat someone and failing to me trumps just playing and playing until someone gives up. And again recorded results have to be able to speak louder than stories. ESPECIALLY, when they don't match up. If your the best, your the best in a tournament or a cash game, period.

David has won MANY! And continues to do so from time to time. Keith has won several also, including a couple of big ones. Don't think for a minute that their skills didn't translate to tournament play. It's just that Keith especially didn't focus on tournaments. He preferred to go find the guy who won the tournament and empty him out. It was easier that way. He only had to beat one guy to get all the money. :wink:

 

[jay helfert]

I'd like to see any bar table player match up against Warren Kiamco in a long set, my money is on Kiamco

Let me put a call into Jason Kirkwood. You can back Warren and I'll back Jason. Okay?

 

[RunoutalloverU]

I'm surprised that you think that way! According to your theory, the best in the tournament always wins! We all know that is not true. I've beaten Jason Kirkwood in a tournament, does that make me better than him??? I don't think so.

Tournaments are short races. Competent players are capable of beating champions in a tournament. I'm proof of that. But would I gamble with those chamions?? NO WAY! Why not? Because they are WAY better than I am.

I get my break working, and get a couple of good rolls, I can beat a champion in a race to 7 or 9 once in a while. But those rolls aren't going to hold up, and in a race to 40-50, I am going to get slaughtered.

So, just because someone may not hold a lot of titles in tournament play, does NOT mean that they are not the best player.

If we had a reading comprehension test on this website, half of the members would fail. The best in the tournament doesn't always win. However, if you claim to be the best bar table player in the world for a number of years you should have a tournament championship (this means one) to show for it. And Ive never heard Jason Kirkwood claim to be the best in the world...so bad comparison. And competent players are capable of beating champions in a tournament. Sorry, but I think you overlooked something that is kind of funny. The reason they are called (clear my throat) champions is because they have won a.....CHAMPIONSHIP. So they had to win at some point, either once or numerous times. And in that tournament, they didn't get beat (twice in some instances) by anyone competent or great.

 

[jay helfert]

Scotty Townsend beat Warren in an 8 ahead on the bar table last year at the Shooter's during the weekend of the big 10 Ring Ball Tourney. This was the famous match where Warren's stake horse was trying to negotiate the spot and Scotty said said you can shove the 8-ball up your azz let's just play even. Scotty proceeded to snap it off in about in about three hours, it was a great match to watch both players played very well and there were several swings in the score during the match.

I am not sure if Scotty would have done the same with David, but that is just my opinion.

-don

With players at this skill level, the 8 ball means virtually nothing on a bar table, maybe 1%. To win you've got to be able to beat the guy even. And Scotty knows that.

 

[RunoutalloverU]

David has won MANY! And continues to do so from time to time. Keith has won several also, including a couple of big ones. Don't think for a minute that their skills didn't translate to tournament play. It's just that Keith especially didn't focus on tournaments. He preferred to go find the guy who won the tournament and empty him out. It was easier that way. He only had to beat one guy to get all the money. :wink:

Which years did they win the bar table championships, is there somewhere that this is archived? And that strategy to play the guy that won the championship is the way to go.

 

[smashmouth]

Jason over Warren? what do you know that I don't?

 

[Scott Lee]

Jay...Boy, ain't that the truth! LOL When I ran into Keith at the Burlington, IA tournament (10/75), I almost have to think he lost early in the tournament on purpose, to go "empty" everybody in the green room at the hotel... because that's exactly what he did. When I played him, he had a BR that would choke an elephant. He had beaten a LOT of top players, for a LOT of $$$! I got VERY lucky to relieve him of several hundred in a few minutes (with a huge spot).

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

It's just that Keith especially didn't focus on tournaments. He preferred to go find the guy who won the tournament and empty him out. It was easier that way. He only had to beat one guy to get all the money. :wink:

 

[jay helfert]

Clint, I never said it took an hour to play David in Oklahoma.

I did say that it took less than an hour at the Childress tournament. That was not in Oklahoma. I played David twice in Richmond, Kentucky, one 5-ahead set and one 10-ahead set the next night. Big Dean backed me playing David the 10-ahead set for 5,000. I remember it very well. He gave me a thousand dollars out of 5,000. I wanted to throw up.

It is kind of funny that David remembers the environment in Kentucky during the 5-ahead set but not remember the 10-ahead set the next night. Ask David about the gaff f*ing table in Dallas. Every time he broke the balls, he made 3 and 4 balls on the break, and every time I broke the balls, I made zero. The cueball would go straight up in the air, squat, and I made zero for hours and hours and hours and hours and hours. It was like a buzzer went off every time he broke the balls. They would drop in the pockets. Every time I broke, nothing. I still believe to this day that that was a buzzer table at Springer's house.

I know all about the oil men and all the backers that David had because I gambled with every one of them.

I am going to try to call David up this week and straighten this out. I don't want him to ever think I am talking trash about him. He is my friend. I ain't trying to start a war. I like David a lot.

I have all the respect for David in the world, but David never played me in my prime. I was in my prime in the '70s, not the '80s, just to set the record straight, since everybody seems to want to get the facts out there. Let's not forget that I gave Larry Hubbart the 8 and 9 right before he went to Oklahoma City and beat David -- even. I beat him two 8-ahead sets faster than you can blink for 4 dimes apiece. I'm not sure what all this means, but that's the way it was. I was there.

Don't worry about it Ether. Your Legend is made! And so is David's. None of us posting on here can hold your cue, or his.

I did beat you once getting the 8 and the break. You were about 17. Do you remember that one? You made me pay for my sins a few times
though.

 

[Scott Lee]

Good for you! Congratulations on living a more healthy lifestyle! I hope Keith is following in your footsteps...although past overindulgence often catches up with us, as we age!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I have been trying to live a healthier lifestyle for the past five or six years by eating well-balanced meals, limiting my red meat to once a week, et cetera. We have fresh vegetables at every dinner, steamed usually.

I am having trouble with my sleep. I can't sleep more than four hours tops, without waking up. When I was younger, I could sleep ten hours, no problem.

I just gave up the cigarettes this past February. I quit drinking alcohol in 1978.

I refuse to give up my coffee, but I know that has to soon go as well because of my heart. I love my triple-shot, one pump of sugar-free vanilla, skim with whipped cream lattes. And yeah, it's an addiction. :grin:

JAM

 

[jay helfert]

Which years did they win the bar table championships, is there somewhere that this is archived? And that strategy to play the guy that won the championship is the way to go.

David has been winning bar table tournaments since the 1980's. All over the Midwest! Keith won his big ones back then also. And a couple even earlier.

I'm not talking about national championships. I'm talking regional events, full of good players. These tournaments are not easy to win, and you have to be a champion to win one. David has won dozens! Keith not so many, but he did get a few good ones back in the 80's that I recall. He would remember them better than me.

 

[jay helfert]

Jason over Warren? what do you know that I don't?

Nothing, I just happen to like Jason in that match up. Of course I have to call him first to see if he likes himself. :grin: