Mika/Williams SBE

tuda said:
can you imagine the superbowl not being played, and the 2 teams just chopping the money for seats, and commercial endorsements?

basically the same thing in my opinion... they should have been disqualified, and money withheld...
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This was my original opinion...but in all fairness.....

If one player is wiling to play....he should get first money and the title...
...the no-show should get zilch....
..and second place money can be added to next event.
 
pt109 said:
This was my original opinion...but in all fairness.....

If one player is wiling to play....he should get first money and the title...
...the no-show should get zilch....
..and second place money can be added to next event.
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While it would be nice if this could be done, I just don't think they would have the legal standing to do it (that is unless they have somehow communicated this policy to the players in advance, which in a previous post is exactly what I suggested that they start doing).
 
Maniac said:
Er....uh...the problem with chopping/dumping is that there are spectators who may have traveled a long way and paid to get in to watch them play.

Hell, why don't the entire list of tournament entrants just split the purse equally amongst thenselves and just skip the whole damn tournament???

Maniac (beginning to dislike pro pool more and more as time goes by, and I'm sure I'm not alone)
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I agree wholeheartedly that players shouldn't chop in the finals of a pro event, where there are spectators and sponsors counting on those matches happening.

With that said, I do take issue with your use of the term "chopping/dumping". Those two things are in different galaxies with regard to the participants' motivations and the amount of disrespect shown for the sport and fans. They should not be slashed together as if they are similar or interchangeable concepts.

Aaron
 
Aaron_S said:
I agree wholeheartedly...with your use of the term "chopping/dumping". Those two things are in different galaxies with regard to the participants' motivations and the amount of disrespect shown for the sport and fans. They should not be slashed together as if they are similar or interchangeable concepts.

Aaron
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Agreed...I wouldn't consider what they did 'dumping'. They blew the final off, plain and simple. Thoguh they did shit in the face of the event and all involved, still not 'dumping'.

And they got all the money too.

I have no problem with redistributing prize money or savers, but for Pete out loud, give the fans and sponsors what they paid for.

I know there are a million excuses why it happened and I don't believe any combination of them was valid.
 
Black-Balled said:
Agreed...I wouldn't consider what they did 'dumping'. They blew the final off, plain and simple. Thoguh they did shit in the face of the event and all involved, still not 'dumping'.

And they got all the money too.

I have no problem with redistributing prize money or savers, but for Pete out loud, give the fans and sponsors what they paid for.

I know there are a million excuses why it happened and I don't believe any combination of them was valid.
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Speaking of "chopping", that was some interesting work you did on my post, LOL.

Aaron
 
Poolplaya9 said:
While it would be nice if this could be done, I just don't think they would have the legal standing to do it (that is unless they have somehow communicated this policy to the players in advance, which in a previous post is exactly what I suggested that they start doing).
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Common law will give you a case....enough that the offending parties
might not want to risk a law-suit...they aint got a lock in this spot.
 
Black-Balled said:
I agreee w/ your 'use'!
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Oh, I get it now. Must be a little too early on a Monday morning for me to pick up on the crafty quotology. :embarrassed2:

We recently had a local tournament that started at 1PM on a Saturday. At 5AM Sunday morning the two finalists were staring bleary-eyed at each other and decided to chop it up. I've seen enough similar situations to generally give a pass to players who chop, but a local tournament running 5 hours over schedule is a lot different than a pro event with sponsors and paying spectators in the mix. Not sure what can be done to fix those situations, but it definitely shouldn't happen in that sort of event IMO.

Aaron
 
Black-Balled said:
Agreed...I wouldn't consider what they did 'dumping'. They blew the final off, plain and simple. Thoguh they did shit in the face of the event and all involved, still not 'dumping'.

And they got all the money too.

I have no problem with redistributing prize money or savers, but for Pete out loud, give the fans and sponsors what they paid for.

I know there are a million excuses why it happened and I don't believe any combination of them was valid.
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Since Mika and CW got a payday without having to work for it, they are making the sponsors and private donators out to be suckers. This chopping of the prize fund tarnishes the image of our sport and should not be tolerated.

However, in all fairness, having multiple events at the SBE only invites scheduling conflicts wherein players may have to choose which event is more advantageous to play in or drop.
 
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Aaron_S said:
With that said, I do take issue with your use of the term "chopping/dumping". Those two things are in different galaxies with regard to the participants' motivations and the amount of disrespect shown for the sport and fans. They should not be slashed together as if they are similar or interchangeable concepts.

Aaron
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I was not speaking of the act that occured at the SBE with the 14.1 Challenge but moreso with past pool tournaments in general implying that the paying fan does not get his/her money's worth whenever a final match is either "chopped" OR "dumped". First off, the match SHOULD be played for the paying customers/pool enthusiasts sake and secondly the match should be played with BOTH players playing with 100% effort and heart, with the purpose of winning the event. Anything less is cheating the fans, the sponsors, the promoters, and the game of pool in general.

I firmly believe that many on this site are in agreement with this.

Maniac
 
Maniac said:
I firmly believe that many on this site are in agreement with this.

Maniac
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It is possible to split the money and still play for the glory. I have no problem with that.

But when one player loses on purpose, that is shiiiit.
 
I'm just going to throw out my opinion since I haven't seen it expressed in my scanning of these threads (though I could have missed it):

1) I don't care.
2) My opinion of Mika or CW has not changed.

The goings-on of professional pool players does not affect my local pool scene (or me) in the slightest. Next year, if I have some extra money, I will donate to the 14.1 challenge as if this never happened.

-matthew
 
May I ask how much did Fury put into the event? I think i was told it was around $1-2k added total.
I think there will still be sponsors willing to help the event if a few pullout.

It seems to me there were alot of "loose" rules and scheduling. So i dont think players can be faulted completely if organizers didnt set specific times for matches. Who wants to wait 2-3 hrs on maybe a match will start?


carter1984 said:
First let me remind everyone that the Fury 14.1 Challenge was not an officially sanction event by either Allen Hopkins or the APB. From the expo point of view, that explains why there was no time designation for a finals to be played so that it didn't overlap and interfere with any other pro event finals, and why it isn't mentioned along with all the other tournaments in the website and program guide. It has been run entirely off of fan donations, with fans donating as much as $1000, and sponsorship, with volunteers providing the energy and sweat to pull it off. The money raised from both sponsorship and donations covers the expenses of the event, and whatever is left goes to the prize fund, along with the entry fees from the participants.

The event has attracted more participants, players, and exposure each year it has taken place. I have hoped that it would grow to the point where the promoters could approach Allen Hopkins about having it become an "official" event at the SBE just as the Artistic, Carom, and Players Championships are. That could only work once it was shown to be a true "event" drawing plenty of attention in the form or participants and spectators. That would help alleviate some of the issues with timing.

Yes, Fury is reassessing the role they play by putting their name on the event, however that is not to say that they are pulling their sponsorship. This debacle has obviously demonstrated that there are changes and improvements that need to be made. In defense of Charles Eames and Steve Kurtz, the event promoters, they are doing this not for money, but for the love of 14.1 and to help raise awareness of the game as a discipline of pocket billiards. They are not professional promoters, and unfortunately I think the situation being discussed was part of the learning curve for them. I think they learned a lot from this years event, as it was bigger than the previous years and they had to adapt on the fly to a number of circumstances. All that being said, they have done a great job of pulling this off since it's inception. However, like any other "live" event, it will not ever be without its hiccups along the way.

The sad truth of the matter though, is that due to the outcome of the event this year, it IS going to be harder for them to pull in fan donations and more sponsorship dollars. Almost all of those who invested their time, energy, and money are upset at how things turned out.

I think it would have benefited both players, and the event promoters, to consider what the effects not having a streamed finals match would have on their future endeavors. For Mika and CW, this didn't mean a thing other than a few extra dollars in their pocket. For the event promoters, it means a lot of headache they did not anticipate and possible having to work even harder to solicit the funds necessary for next years event. For the fans and sponsors, it shows a complete lack of respect for the money they invested to see world class championship 14.1. In addition, as someone pointed out earlier, the sponsors were robbed of exposure that they "paid" to receive.

Not a single pro player is "entitled" to any payout. They only get to do what they love when fans support their efforts. Their actions this year pose to damage the reputation of the event, its sponsors, promoters, and the players themselves. All parties involved might have considered this before acquiescing to the "no win" situation that has been described.

The Fury 14.1 Challenge has offered a very unique opportunity at the expo. Not only is admission to watch free, but no other event at the expo allows amateurs and pros to intermingle so effortlessly and with little or no cost. This is worthy of preservation, as it is the amateur players that make a difference. It is them, not pro players, gamblers, hustlers, or road players, that will spend money buying sponsor's products and paying admission prices to see pro events, thereby fueling the billiards economy for those not selling home tables and equipment. Keeping these folks engaged and happy should be the primary goal of any event. This years challenge fell short of that goal, but hopefully the promoters can again adapt to make sure that all those who invest their time, money, and energy will not suffer a similar situation in the future.
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krupa said:
I'm just going to throw out my opinion since I haven't seen it expressed in my scanning of these threads (though I could have missed it):

1) I don't care.
2) My opinion of Mika or CW has not changed.

The goings-on of professional pool players does not affect my local pool scene (or me) in the slightest. Next year, if I have some extra money, I will donate to the 14.1 challenge as if this never happened.

-matthew
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If I have any extra money, I will support one of the vendors and buy something from them. I am not donating next year. Sorry.
 
here is another thread complaining about what we all already know. nothing will change from this. the fact of the matter is Mika is not contractually obligated to play this tourny or that tourny. plain and simple the ABP is a joke. We all know it. In another year or so when the disbanned, we'll say the same thing about the next BS group they throw together.

The reason why the women have the contracts is because they are women. No more, No less. the masses don't want to watch two homely dudes play pool...

and finally, can we stop with these treads. they really are just a avenue in which to vent frustration that we all agree with, but unfortunatly will never change. they are about as played out as player (X) in thier prime matching up with player (Y) in thier prime. It's bench racing at best and accomplishes nothing.

How about a thread on how to raise funds and organize pool into something that is more like golf, tennis, or any other singles sport?

just my little $.02,

Justin
 
jhanso18 said:
and finally, can we stop with these treads. they really are just a avenue in which to vent frustration that we all agree with, but unfortunatly will never change.
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And what's so bad about people venting frustration if that's what they need or want to do?

If you don't like these types of threads then don't open them.

After all.........it's a discussion forum.

What else is an old, retired fart like me gonna do in all his spare time anyway? Shoot pool???

Maniac
 
jhanso18 said:
...and finally, can we stop with these treads. they really are just a avenue in which to vent frustration that we all agree with, but unfortunatly will never change.

How about a thread on how to raise funds and organize pool into something that is more like golf, tennis, or any other singles sport?
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Oh the irony. As if that has never been discussed before. Talk about banging the same drum... Wow.
 
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