Mike Sigel forfeit in World 14-1 - Matchtime changed from 1 to 11...
- Thread starter Roy Steffensen
- Start date
My educated guess is he has some personal stuff going on and something set him off like the time change,pretty simple really. 
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=111220
Charlie Williams started this thread explaining what happened!
Charlie Williams started this thread explaining what happened!
I had to play a guy by the name of Harold Dollar aka Fat Harold... @ 11 and he didn't show til 1. Someone had told him the wrong time he said. The TD asked me if i wanted to still play since my next match was shceduled a few hours later anyway and we had time to play it. I said sure. Even though Fat Harold was one of the strongest players i have ever seen at the time. I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt since he had alot riding on the tourney. Of course he won but i felt i did the right thing. I mean does it really matter when you play as long as you have time before the next scheduled match?
I don't think so and also who wants to win by forfiet anyway right??
I don't think so and also who wants to win by forfiet anyway right??
tigerseye said:
If i show up on time, and i read the board right, and my opponent didn't, is that my fault? I'm supposed to do him a favor and accommodate him cause he messed up?
Um, NO!
Rules are in place for a reason.
You know, if you had taken the forfeit, maybe, just maybe, the guy who did it, would try a little harder to get there on time the next time.
I'll take a forfeit any day, and gladly rub it in the guys face.
The only way i'm going to listen to someone else trying to talk me out of it is if THEY coughed up the money to pay my entry fee.
doing the guy a favor, HA, what a joke......
tigerseye said:
Not my problem.
If they show up on time, i will gladly play and win or lose, but if they can't manage that.
F@#K EM!
I distinctly remember one time where i had to play a NAME player at the Derby, where he was put on the clock, and EVERYONE that knew him was looking for him.
He went on to be 10 minutes later then the 15 minutes they gave him.
I proceeded to lose 7-5, and then he went on to win the 9 ball tournament.
Would they have done the same for me?
No.
Why have the rules in place if your not going to use them?
So because of that, i have no mercy or stomach for niceties in pool when it comes to forfeits.
If the guy is late, forfeit him.
If the guy is gonna bi.tch and complain that i had to win by forfeit, then i will gladly rub the fact that by him being late and me getting the forfeit, i moved up in prize money, and am now going to go out and eat a nice juicy steak as a result of his generosity, and i'll make sure i thank him repeatedly as i stuff my face.
The way i look at it, if i have the power to enforce a forfeit, if i choose not to and do the guy a favor, and the guy goes on to do well in the tournament as a result, he needs to toss me some jelly. I now am entitled to some of his prize money for looking the other way when it came to his incompetence.
If they don't agree with that. FORFEIT!!!!!
tigerseye said:
The rules are quite clear about the penalties for players who show up late for their matches but I don't see any problem with a person choosing to wait a while longer for his already late opponent to show up. In the same breath I don't see any problem with a player saying that they do not want to wait for their opponent after the published waiting time.
I enjoy playing matches so I might wait a bit for my opponent to show up but may flip-flop depending upong my opponent. This is where it pays to be a nice guy. A nice guy, I might extend the waiting time, depending upon my own physical state and my state of mind. A person known for being a jerk will get no leeway from me when it comes to waiting for them to show up.
Some players intentionally wait until the last possible minute to show up at the match. That isn't very good sportsmanship IMO.
I won't intentionally rub anyone's face because they failed to show up on time but that's just me (and that would include the most despised pool player in the tournament). We all want to win, some more than others but everyone enjoys a win. A win against a playing opponent is far sweeter than a win against Mr. Bye. A loss is a loss and losses suck deep pond scum.
JoeyA
Wow; Wish All You Sigel Fans Showed Up
I Was There From The 23rd Through The Finals Last Night And Wish All The People Who Like Sigel And Are Convinced He Was Screwed, He Was Not, Would Have Attended This Tournament. Dragon Promotions Did A Great Job And Sigel Was His Typical Rude But Entertaining Player. He Broke A Rule That Prevented Players From Practicing After Their Match Was Completed On A Tournament Table. Of Course That Rule Doesn't Applied To "hook" As He Was Banging Balls After Completing His Match, Talking To The Audience While The Match On The Next Table Was At A Critical Stage Bothering The Competitors. A Real Gentleman Competing in the match asked Sigel To Leave As The Rules Dictated As His Mouth Was Bothering The Adjoining Players And Sigel Made A Funny Face Initially Ignoring The Request. This Gentlemen, Me, Would Have Escorted Mr. Sigel In Any Way He Chose, Off The Table Area To Permit The Other Match To Conclude Fairly.
There Is No Denying Mike Sigel's Talent But He Is A Rude, Selfish Person When Things Don't Go His Way. Deep Regrets For Any Personal Issues He May Have But His Conduct Can Not Be Ignored For Any Reason. Next Year Sigel Fans, Support This Great Tournament; Even My Wife Enjoyed The Week And She Hates 14.1.
I Was There From The 23rd Through The Finals Last Night And Wish All The People Who Like Sigel And Are Convinced He Was Screwed, He Was Not, Would Have Attended This Tournament. Dragon Promotions Did A Great Job And Sigel Was His Typical Rude But Entertaining Player. He Broke A Rule That Prevented Players From Practicing After Their Match Was Completed On A Tournament Table. Of Course That Rule Doesn't Applied To "hook" As He Was Banging Balls After Completing His Match, Talking To The Audience While The Match On The Next Table Was At A Critical Stage Bothering The Competitors. A Real Gentleman Competing in the match asked Sigel To Leave As The Rules Dictated As His Mouth Was Bothering The Adjoining Players And Sigel Made A Funny Face Initially Ignoring The Request. This Gentlemen, Me, Would Have Escorted Mr. Sigel In Any Way He Chose, Off The Table Area To Permit The Other Match To Conclude Fairly.
There Is No Denying Mike Sigel's Talent But He Is A Rude, Selfish Person When Things Don't Go His Way. Deep Regrets For Any Personal Issues He May Have But His Conduct Can Not Be Ignored For Any Reason. Next Year Sigel Fans, Support This Great Tournament; Even My Wife Enjoyed The Week And She Hates 14.1.
Dear Petard,
Yes, Mike Sigel can be rude, crude and socially unacceptable. Like John McEnroe, people love to hate him. No Argument :thud: !
Sorry to disagree with you regarding DP. They did a terrible job disseminating information. Their web site was at least a day behind the entire event. No updates, no live streaming, no payouts, no nothing:bash: !
When you're faced with a lack of information, opinions are formed from past knowledge. I've known the captain for nearly forty years. In all those years, I never knew him to miss a match. Never! I'd bet most of us "Sigel lovers" would agree with that.
In the future, please, please don't scream so loud! My eyes are having trouble focusing on your post so early in the morning:smilewinkgrin: .
Lyn
Yes, Mike Sigel can be rude, crude and socially unacceptable. Like John McEnroe, people love to hate him. No Argument :thud: !
Sorry to disagree with you regarding DP. They did a terrible job disseminating information. Their web site was at least a day behind the entire event. No updates, no live streaming, no payouts, no nothing:bash: !
When you're faced with a lack of information, opinions are formed from past knowledge. I've known the captain for nearly forty years. In all those years, I never knew him to miss a match. Never! I'd bet most of us "Sigel lovers" would agree with that.
In the future, please, please don't scream so loud! My eyes are having trouble focusing on your post so early in the morning:smilewinkgrin: .
Lyn
cardiac kid said:
Running a tournament is far different than notifying the public of results to please the remote fans. If more local people paid their way to the tournament, perhaps more staff could be added to provide more prompt media results for interested fans. It took 2 local Dr.'s to donate money for their love of 14.1 for this tournament to happen. With the tens of millions of people in the local area, the attendance was pathetic and then all the "know it alls" complain about Dragon. 31 of 32 got it right........... I flew 2000 miles to watch for the 3rd year and will be there until I croak. Perhaps Hook received special treatment in the past but this was his fault; Danny was there along with 30 players who listened to the plan; maybe Mike was talking when he should have been listening?
PETARD said:
About the match times, there are some posts on this forum written by those who were there on site at this event.
They state something different happened than what you have posted.
I was not there, but I hear your pain. It does suck that pool is not supported by a fan base large enough to sustain the sport. Welcome to American pool where pool is cruel to its own.
The existing lot of professional American players is dwindling. Soon there will not be very many events on American soil, as the American professionals will have to emigrate overseas to pursue their pool careers.
We can all sit back and watch LIVE lawn mower races and hot dog eating contests on ESPN here in the States and pool matches that occurred months ago where they sometimes don't even mention the prize payout monies because it's too damn embarassing.
JAM
PETARD said:
AZ manages to provide results from across the country. It's as close as a telephone. I'm sure Mike is tired of hearing complaints about tournament results he may not have been asked to post.
PETARD said:
As that is the advertised added money, what is DP's reason to be involved? Why would many of the best 14.1 players in the world travel across the pond to play in an event where only one or two players can make money? Somethings not right here! Perhaps my government has finally made me paranoid!
PETARD said:
How much promotion was done in and around Greater NYC and Philadelphia? I drove to Philadelphia to play in a UPA event several years ago. There were so few spectators the players out numbered them. No local promotion was the answer we discovered. Pehaps there is a reason so few people attended this event. Maybe it was the price of the tickets? Sorry Petard, people have been questioning Charlie's intentions since he started the UPA. Self promotion was high on his list.
PETARD said:
Now theres something we can agree on!
Lyn
Wow - I just returned from the tournament and am just now seeing this thread. I was really looking forward to seeing this rematch since I saw the first match up close from two years ago. It was a great match up and they also bickered with each other the whole time, which made it even more amusing. This year, here is what I know, saw, and heard first hand.
To be clear, for those of you that will say I am a hater or in the bag for one party or the other: 1) I don't know any of the parties involved (Charlie or his staff, Mike, or Danny); 2) I have been to all 3 of these events and just love 14.1, plain and simple. 3) Mike was always my favorite player when I was younger.
This year, I was actually sitting down front at Danny and Mike's table prepared to watch this match and was pretty disappointed when it was called. A few minutes before the match was supposed to start, Mike came in, rather loudly and started complaining about the match times being rescheduled. I thought this was pretty inconsiderate given that there were other matches going on at the time and it was disruptive to the whole room (even though it lasted only a minute or two). He was told very clearly by the Tournament Director (not Charlie - I don't even think he was in the room) that he had 10 minutes to return and be ready to play or he would forfeit. He walked out complaining and never returned. The TD came over and asked Danny what time he had seen the schedule/brackets, and Danny replied around 9:30 or 10, he couldn't remember for sure. Mike never returned, but he had the chance to do so and play and in my opinion he should have. I was disappointed he didn't.
Everyone else made their matches on time for that session, and it doesn't make sense to me at least, that just one match would have changed time slots given there are only 8 tables. No one else mentioned their times being changed that I know of or have heard of. I know Mike said he had people that would vouch for him that his match time had changed. I read earlier here that it was Bobby and John, but I don't know anything about that at all. I saw the brackets earlier that morning on my way back from breakfast, probably around 7:45. I really think Mike may have misread things here, because what I saw was that he was slated for the early match at 11am.
Just to add more context here, in another match, Mike lost the lag by a good 2-3 inches, but insisted after the balls were racked, he had won it. I don't think it was a hustle move to try and get the break either - I really think in his mind he thought he had won it. When he began to argue about it, the whole section sitting around that table had to tell him that no, he did not win the lag. In another match, he was pretty rude to the crowd when they didn't applaud as loudly as he thought they should. He continued to explain how great the shot was and then when no one applauded, he stated several times that he couldn't wait to get out of this place. Someone even replied back to him that "Yeah Mike, that was the shot of the century", which really set him off.
It seems to me what he perceives to be the case in certain circumstances, isn't always the reality.
It sounds like people have a lot against Charlie on this forum, maybe for good reason...I don't really know. It seems like many people have made up their minds about this without being there and seeing what happened. Instead they have decided based on previous events or dislike for Charlie and his company. That too, may also be warranted, but I cannot speak to any of those instances. This is not meant to be negative towards people like Jay or JAM - I enjoy reading posts from both of you and think each of you add to the quality of this forum. Hopefully, you will not take what I am saying the wrong way.
Just my take - I really do think Mike may have misread the time on the brackets.
To be clear, for those of you that will say I am a hater or in the bag for one party or the other: 1) I don't know any of the parties involved (Charlie or his staff, Mike, or Danny); 2) I have been to all 3 of these events and just love 14.1, plain and simple. 3) Mike was always my favorite player when I was younger.
This year, I was actually sitting down front at Danny and Mike's table prepared to watch this match and was pretty disappointed when it was called. A few minutes before the match was supposed to start, Mike came in, rather loudly and started complaining about the match times being rescheduled. I thought this was pretty inconsiderate given that there were other matches going on at the time and it was disruptive to the whole room (even though it lasted only a minute or two). He was told very clearly by the Tournament Director (not Charlie - I don't even think he was in the room) that he had 10 minutes to return and be ready to play or he would forfeit. He walked out complaining and never returned. The TD came over and asked Danny what time he had seen the schedule/brackets, and Danny replied around 9:30 or 10, he couldn't remember for sure. Mike never returned, but he had the chance to do so and play and in my opinion he should have. I was disappointed he didn't.
Everyone else made their matches on time for that session, and it doesn't make sense to me at least, that just one match would have changed time slots given there are only 8 tables. No one else mentioned their times being changed that I know of or have heard of. I know Mike said he had people that would vouch for him that his match time had changed. I read earlier here that it was Bobby and John, but I don't know anything about that at all. I saw the brackets earlier that morning on my way back from breakfast, probably around 7:45. I really think Mike may have misread things here, because what I saw was that he was slated for the early match at 11am.
Just to add more context here, in another match, Mike lost the lag by a good 2-3 inches, but insisted after the balls were racked, he had won it. I don't think it was a hustle move to try and get the break either - I really think in his mind he thought he had won it. When he began to argue about it, the whole section sitting around that table had to tell him that no, he did not win the lag. In another match, he was pretty rude to the crowd when they didn't applaud as loudly as he thought they should. He continued to explain how great the shot was and then when no one applauded, he stated several times that he couldn't wait to get out of this place. Someone even replied back to him that "Yeah Mike, that was the shot of the century", which really set him off.
It seems to me what he perceives to be the case in certain circumstances, isn't always the reality.
It sounds like people have a lot against Charlie on this forum, maybe for good reason...I don't really know. It seems like many people have made up their minds about this without being there and seeing what happened. Instead they have decided based on previous events or dislike for Charlie and his company. That too, may also be warranted, but I cannot speak to any of those instances. This is not meant to be negative towards people like Jay or JAM - I enjoy reading posts from both of you and think each of you add to the quality of this forum. Hopefully, you will not take what I am saying the wrong way.
Just my take - I really do think Mike may have misread the time on the brackets.