Nit/Locksmiths as Opposed to Smart/Shrewd Gamblers

1 Pocket Ghost

1 Pocket Ghost

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The reply by ShootingArts to the "Keith Macready Toughest Gamblers" compelled me to post this thread....

Having been hanging/playing/gambling in poolrooms for 35 years, Imo, I don't think these two character types are at all the same - here's the all-important, huge difference between them....and the way I view poolroom/gambling ethics....

A nit/locksmith wants the nuts, if not the triple nuts, and will not EVER play without them, cuz they're not gamblers, they just like to steal - Any of this poolroom type (and there's way too many of them) that has some money and still operates this way, I have disdain, and 0 respect for......But if they're a total broke just trying to scuffle food money, then I'll cut them some slack.

But conversely, a Smart/Shrewd Gambler is a guy who tries to get the nuts as often as he can, but if he can't, he will still play with an even game, cuz at heart, he's a gambler.....This guy I respect.
 
Well Ghost, I dont think respect has anything to do with it. A guy who makes a living playing pool doesnt take too many chances and if he is, is usually not doing it with his own bankroll. He doesnt care if you respect him or not. He's out to make his room rent. Do you respect the guy that is a locksmith and never hits you up or the gambler that has to hit you up because he gambled and never pays you back. I got a couple loans that you can buy cheap from some pretty good gamblers out there.
Now take Efren if he knows he is in a bad game he immediately lays down his cue. He will not go off.
I guess you have to go further in your definitions of nit/locksmith for me. In poker its an accepted fact that you set traps for weak players-dead money. Why is it in pool youre expected to give a fair game? These are just questions I have in my mind.
 
Yeah I don't know about the whole respect thing either, playing when you know your going to win seems smart to me, and that is all.
 
Pool players that gamble in even games die broke. Pool player for the most part are not street smart. They are in poolrooms night and day. The street is outside. If all you ever hang out with are pool players and take their advice you'll never have anything in life but your cue and a bunch of people saying "he had heart" IMO most have a gambling problem. Johnnyt
 
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Johnnyt said:
Pool players that gamble in even games die broke. Pool player for the most part are not street smart. They are in poolrooms night and day. The street is outside. If all you ever hang out with are pool players and take their advice you'll never have anything in life but your cue and a bunch of people saying "he had heart" IMO most have stupid. Johnnyt
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Watch out, someone may accuse you of calling pool players dumb. :rolleyes:
JoeyA
 
I think what the novice player doesnt realize is that there a people who are "pool players" and then there are people that "play pool". The people that play pool, usually do not have the gamblers instinct and cannot handle the pressure and sometimes are classified as nits. JMO.

Southpaw
 
Like I have said before....in threads like this there are ....

> players trying to make a name for themselves, and will get into a less then perfect matchup to try and outrun the nuts.....or gain some respect.

> Gamblers, who will try to lock you up, and if it wont work, will give you a close to even shot if the game is right....but you wont like it!

> there are losers who will never win, but try damn hard along the way....and help out the road agents in the process...sometimes they are hard to beat!

> and the lock artists....give em the nutz, but its not enough....the nuts + the break....almost.....the nutz and the break, and odds on the $$$.....and they jump up to life!.....:cool:

> and guys like me...I'll play anyone heads up. I don't ask for weight, I rarely give out weight, but I will play as hard as I friggin can for $20, or $200 and NOT complain.....I'm just not sure what to call myself.

G.
 
I agree with you

I agree with you, you missed that I was talking about the way many people think in the other post, not reality. What I am actually talking about are many people's opinion of themselves and others. I have never met a self-avowed nit in the poolroom that would gamble at all. I have met many nits that wouldn't gamble unless they thought they had the stone cold nuts and they thought that made them just shrewd game makers. On the other hand their opinion of others that would not give them the stone cold nuts was always that the people that aren't mad at their wallet are nits!

I respect the guys that make even games or tilted a little their way. These are the shrewd matchmakers with some heart to go with it. True nits are just on the lookout for an easy totally risk free buck and command no respect at all.

Hu




1 Pocket Ghost said:
The reply by ShootingArts to the "Keith Macready Toughest Gamblers" compelled me to post this thread....

Having been hanging/playing/gambling in poolrooms for 35 years, Imo, I don't think these two character types are at all the same - here's the all-important, huge difference between them....and the way I view poolroom/gambling ethics....

A nit/locksmith wants the nuts, if not the triple nuts, and will not EVER play without them, cuz they're not gamblers, they just like to steal - Any of this poolroom type (and there's way too many of them) that has some money and still operates this way, I have disdain, and 0 respect for......But if they're a total broke just trying to scuffle food money, then I'll cut them some slack.

But conversely, a Smart/Shrewd Gambler is a guy who tries to get the nuts as often as he can, but if he can't, he will still play with an even game, cuz at heart, he's a gambler.....This guy I respect.
Click to expand...
 
ShootingArts said:
I agree with you, you missed that I was talking about the way many people think in the other post, not reality. What I am actually talking about are many people's opinion of themselves and others. I have never met a self-avowed nit in the poolroom that would gamble at all. I have met many nits that wouldn't gamble unless they thought they had the stone cold nuts and they thought that made them just shrewd game makers. On the other hand their opinion of others that would not give them the stone cold nuts was always that the people that aren't mad at their wallet are nits!

I respect the guys that make even games or tilted a little their way. These are the shrewd matchmakers with some heart to go with it. True nits are just on the lookout for an easy totally risk free buck and command no respect at all.

Hu
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Yeah Hu, I think we see things the same way.

- Ghost
 
Johnnyt said:
Pool players that gamble in even games die broke. Pool player for the most part are not street smart. They are in poolrooms night and day. The street is outside. If all you ever hang out with are pool players and take their advice you'll never have anything in life but your cue and a bunch of people saying "he had heart" IMO most have stupid. Johnnyt
Click to expand...

With great respect for the Ghost, I have to agree with you...except for the stupid part...Ill-advised maybe.

But we have to define out views in terms of the player's OBJECTIVES.

In many cases, their objective is to GAMBLE and as long as they think they have a chance, they will stack it up.

Those people would rather die broke than not gamble at every opportunity...and MANY got there "druthers".

But if the objective is to WIN money and KEEP it, then even matches are ill-advised at best.

Some speak with disdain about locksmiths...but wait a second. If they get action with the double nuts, which of the two competitors is the smartest??

Truly even matches could be much more quickly resolved by flipping coins...race to 10.

They may make GREAT events for the spectators but are poor business decisions for the players...unless they have stake horses.

There are VERY few professional pool gamblers that have died with any money but a LOT of bookies who do so routinely. Does anyone know any bookies who will bet anyone even? I've never heard of one.

Regards,
Jim
 
sorry, but gambling implies chance and risk, more often than not too much to statistically overcome

someone who gambles too much usually has more balls than brains

at day's end, winners and smart business people play the odds

you seek the right spot, you got the brains
you get the right spot, you got the charisma

egos need to be checked to avoid going broke
 
I like to have the best of the game, or like to think I have the best of the game before I play it. I don't understand why anyone would ever knowingly play a game that they had the worst of. That being said, I will gamble on just about anything from all sporting events to casino games to which color car will go by next.

I guess if it is something that I am doing, ie..playing pool, golf, darts, etc., that I have control of the outcome, then I like to have the better end of the gamble going in. A lot of it has to do with the ability to match up and the fact that you have to leave pride at the door when matching up.

I have won thousands off of people at the golf course who have "vanity" handicaps and don't play as good as they think they do.
 
I consider myself a pretty smart guy and dont put myself into a bad game very often if at all to be honest.I usually know the player and there speed and they know mine.I like to have the edge but will play an even game.I have been called Lenny the Lock and dont mind it because when i do gamble i usually have the best of it or its even money,people never see me in a bad game having the worse of it but sometimes my game might be off and i could lose.Some of the guys we all respect and think are the greatest were lock artist at times,I have heard stories of Johnny Ervolino getting the 5 ball from guys he should have been giving the 5 ball too.I like to tell people i dont gamble when i play,i bet.Its better to underate your game then to overrate it and be in bad games losing your a$$. ;)
 
corvette1340 said:
I have won thousands off of people at the golf course who have "vanity" handicaps and don't play as good as they think they do.
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Reverse sandbaggers! Classic! I take their money on the course STEADY.
 
Gerry said:
Like I have said before....in threads like this there are ....

> players trying to make a name for themselves, and will get into a less then perfect matchup to try and outrun the nuts.....or gain some respect.

> Gamblers, who will try to lock you up, and if it wont work, will give you a close to even shot if the game is right....but you wont like it!

> there are losers who will never win, but try damn hard along the way....and help out the road agents in the process...sometimes they are hard to beat!

> and the lock artists....give em the nutz, but its not enough....the nuts + the break....almost.....the nutz and the break, and odds on the $$$.....and they jump up to life!.....:cool:

> and guys like me...I'll play anyone heads up. I don't ask for weight, I rarely give out weight, but I will play as hard as I friggin can for $20, or $200 and NOT complain.....I'm just not sure what to call myself.

G.
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And the least likely guy to be found sleeping in the back seat of hit car? The lock artist.
 
smashmouth said:
sorry, but gambling implies chance and risk, more often than not too much to statistically overcome

someone who gambles too much usually has more balls than brains

at day's end, winners and smart business people play the odds

you seek the right spot, you got the brains
you get the right spot, you got the charisma

egos need to be checked to avoid going broke
Click to expand...
Well said. When the rent is on the line this is the way it needs to be done.
I never had any problem betting, it's the gambling part most smart players don't like. Most that lost would lose it to someone else if it wasn't to me.
 
they call me a nit cuz I has their moniez + they can keep calling me nit as long as they keep paying :)
 
av84fun said:
With great respect for the Ghost, I have to agree with you...except for the stupid part...Ill-advised maybe.

But we have to define out views in terms of the player's OBJECTIVES.

In many cases, their objective is to GAMBLE and as long as they think they have a chance, they will stack it up.

Those people would rather die broke than not gamble at every opportunity...and MANY got there "druthers".

But if the objective is to WIN money and KEEP it, then even matches are ill-advised at best.

Some speak with disdain about locksmiths...but wait a second. If they get action with the double nuts, which of the two competitors is the smartest??

Truly even matches could be much more quickly resolved by flipping coins...race to 10.

They may make GREAT events for the spectators but are poor business decisions for the players...unless they have stake horses.

There are VERY few professional pool gamblers that have died with any money but a LOT of bookies who do so routinely. Does anyone know any bookies who will bet anyone even? I've never heard of one.

Regards,
Jim
Click to expand...
i've flipped a lot of coins for all i had or maybe all the other guy had ?
but i never had a race to 10?
ps. us oldtimers think you got a little the best of it if you get the other guy to call it.
 
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corvette1340 said:
I like to have the best of the game, or like to think I have the best of the game before I play it. I don't understand why anyone would ever knowingly play a game that they had the worst of. That being said, I will gamble on just about anything from all sporting events to casino games to which color car will go by next.

I guess if it is something that I am doing, ie..playing pool, golf, darts, etc., that I have control of the outcome, then I like to have the better end of the gamble going in. A lot of it has to do with the ability to match up and the fact that you have to leave pride at the door when matching up.

I have won thousands off of people at the golf course who have "vanity" handicaps and don't play as good as they think they do.
Click to expand...

Locally ive gotta take bad games just to get a little action going. When the entire pool hall wants the nuts youve gotta go with the game that is the least tilted against you. So most of the time im playing in uneven games just to get action. Seems sometimes that nobody but me wants to "Gamble" they want a lock. Of course these matches arent toooo lopsided im not running a charity, the matches are still winnable by me ive just got to settle down and focus. Puts the pressure on me which is good and outrunning the nuts is always awesome.
 
TXsouthpaw said:
Locally ive gotta take bad games just to get a little action going. When the entire pool hall wants the nuts youve gotta go with the game that is the least tilted against you. So most of the time im playing in uneven games just to get action. Seems sometimes that nobody but me wants to "Gamble" they want a lock. Of course these matches arent toooo lopsided im not running a charity, the matches are still winnable by me ive just got to settle down and focus. Puts the pressure on me which is good and outrunning the nuts is always awesome.
Click to expand...

And you are an example of my point...which is that the player's objective must be taken into account.

Clearly, you want not only the "action" in terms of competition but also money action and you are willing to risk money on close calls...or maybe even decks stacked against you to get it.

Cool, whatever.

But if your objective is to win money consistently then the so-called locksmiths have it right and you don't.

If you are a card counter, you are not going to bet into a deck that is lean in 10s.

Even if you are just a Basic Strategy player you're not going to hit a 14 if the dealer is stiff.

If you don't have the math you don't bet the cash.

If I'm sweating an underdog match, I'm getting odds on the money or I'm not in. In fact, I don't bet pick 'em matches.

Different strokes for different folks. For my part, I would care JUST as much about beating an opponent for ZERO money as I would if the cash was stacked. I'm not money-involved but rather ego-pride involved.

But no one is right or wrong because we all have different buttons. The only ones who are wrong are those who think that those who won't bet without an advantage (perceived or otherwise) are some kind of jerks.

That is just an intellectually lame attitude. As I said, bookies don't bet without an edge...and while I know several people who have gone into gambling rehab...or should have...I don't know of any bookies who have!

Jail, yes...rehab no!

(-:

Jim
 
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