Notice to Diamond of no longer delivering pool tables.

[JimS]

Say something now Jim!

You are just wrong to post any of this Glen.

Your business dealings with Diamond are none of the public's business. It's YOUR business, and THEIR business.... and should have been kept that way.

Going out of your way to try to publicly hurt them is wrong. It's not proper. It's not ethical.

This thread makes it clear that you cannot be trusted to do business with because any deal that anybody in the future makes with you is clearly subject to being made public with prejudice.

 

[bandido]

What's your solution?

40 footer loads to a West Coast facility every so often depending on demand and/or demand increase trend. DIAMOND Corp leased property and related equipment (forklift, safety compliance equipment, etc) manned by one multi-tasker (Inventory, forklift operation, plant security/maintenance). This 40 can be transported from their factory using their own trucks or make arrangements with you.

You form a corporation and get investors to capitalize such. Put together a training/safety program and deliver products coming from this West Coast DIAMOND distribution facility. You really need to own this company after your mention of doing other hauling jobs and work on other table brands.

Corporations are treated as individual entity thus shields DIAMOND from liability and you personally.

 

[jay helfert]

Diamond has several trucks at their disposal to deliver large loads anywhere in the USA. Enough said.

 

[realkingcobra]

Diamond has several trucks at their disposal to deliver large loads anywhere in the USA. Enough said.

Thank you Jay

 

[Bigjohn]

Thank you Jay

If your a contractor, why should Diamond provide a truck for you? I can see where they may need to increase your rate but I would think your delivery vehicle is solely your responsibility.

 

[realkingcobra]

If your a contractor, why should Diamond provide a truck for you? I can see where they may need to increase your rate but I would think your delivery vehicle is solely your responsibility.

Because to own the vehicle, and run it all over the country delivering pool tables is a loosing proposition working just for Diamond. Because the costed needed to be charged just to keep from loosing money doing this, the buying customer would never pay, not when they can purchase Brunswick tables at a much cheaper rate for delivery and set up if the customers were forced to pay the rates that were needed to be charged, just to break even. Because the Diamond ProAms and Smart Tables are the ONLY tables in production from any manufacture today...that can't be shipped by normal means, because of their size, weight, and having to be installed in homes and bars with special made dollys. I think everyone thinks that Diamond is the one paying me, and the simple solution is to just..."up my rates to Diamond, to cover my costs"...well, everyone needs to listen to what I'm saying....Diamond does not pay for the delivery and set up of Diamond tables..."the customer who buys the table, pays for the table to be delivered and set up" When the cost of recieving that product exceeds the value of the product in the buyers mind, then you LOSE the sale of that product, because they will shop elsewhere's for a better deal on delivery and set up....from someone else!

So, if I have to work for peanuts, and live in a box truck in order for Diamond to GET that sale, and NOT lose it because of the COST of delivering it...then I feel that Diamond should supply the truck, it's that simple. If Diamond don't want to supply the truck, then fine, Diamond can figure out some other way of delivering the customers pool tables, as I won't be a part of it. It would be an interesting thing see Diamond try selling the REAL cost of delivering pool tables to the buyer!

When the tables don't get bought, and they don't get delivered...I guess then we'll know who was right...won't we, because it won't take long for the real show to begin

Glen

 

[realkingcobra]

To all billiards technicians here on AZBilliards, I have a question for all of you. How many of you would be willing to drive either to Las Vegas, NV..or Jeffersonville, IN to pick up Diamond Smart Tables, or Diamond ProAms...and that includes the 9ft tables as well, with your own vehicles, and deliver them where ever they are heading anywhere in the United States? How many of you have vehicles that could handle the job? How many of you have actually delivered a 9ft ProAm or 9ft Smart Table, and set it up in a home, or bar? How many of you had one shipped to you by a trucking company so that YOU could take it off the truck and install it? Deliveries of these tables go to all 4 corners of the country keep in mind when you answer.

How many of you have ever set up, or handled a 9ft 618lb one piece slate, and installed it in a Diamond Professional table? How many of you would even be willing to try, using of course...your OWN equipment?

How many of you would be willing to do this line of work, if I personally worked with you showing you how I perform these tasks, so that you can take over distribution in your own backyards?

Glen

Please, step up to the plate, I'm looking for some help here

 

[klockdoc]

For your damn information, I idle out about $700.00 a month in diesel every month at night because if I shut this truck off, I can't get it started again, not without someone turning the key over, and me spraying ether in the intake..until it warms up enough to be able to stay runing on it's own AND STILL pay lease on this truck...every month!!!

Glen

Who's hurting who here Jim????

Only read about 3/4 of this thread, but, I cannot understand why you do not purchase your own truck and end this. You can set yourself up as a corporation, and take some of the chances on your own. You mentioned that you spend about $8400 a year in fuel costs to keep the truck running, not including the traveling costs. Why not apply these costs to your own vehicle

It always amazed me when I was plant manager at several different companies. There were always employees who thought that the company would not be able to continue operating once this KEY individual was gone.. It never changed. They were always there, they will always be there. Believe me, they continue to operate when they are gone..

I always mentioned to these individuals, "Hey if you think it is so easy, why let this person take all the money Get all your cash, put up your assets and start your own company." They never do. They just sit there and tell everyone how valuable they are and how they can do it better..

You should get your own truck, buy your own insurance, figure in your costs associated with delivering the tables and sit down and give Diamond your costs as a sub contractor and what you need to charge to continue to do business with them. Then if things don't work out, well, you have to make a living Then you could leave on good terms. Doesn't matter, they have to pay you or pay someone else.

Once I had a business when all I got paid with was with fish. You might have heard of a saying I originated. CARP PER DIEM.. [Seize The Fish] (that's for you Smorgie.)

 

[Bigjohn]

Because to own the vehicle, and run it all over the country delivering pool tables is a loosing proposition working just for Diamond. Because the costed needed to be charged just to keep from loosing money doing this, the buying customer would never pay, not when they can purchase Brunswick tables at a much cheaper rate for delivery and set up if the customers were forced to pay the rates that were needed to be charged, just to break even. Because the Diamond ProAms and Smart Tables are the ONLY tables in production from any manufacture today...that can't be shipped by normal means, because of their size, weight, and having to be installed in homes and bars with special made dollys. I think everyone thinks that Diamond is the one paying me, and the simple solution is to just..."up my rates to Diamond, to cover my costs"...well, everyone needs to listen to what I'm saying....Diamond does not pay for the delivery and set up of Diamond tables..."the customer who buys the table, pays for the table to be delivered and set up" When the cost of recieving that product exceeds the value of the product in the buyers mind, then you LOSE the sale of that product, because they will shop elsewhere's for a better deal on delivery and set up....from someone else!

So, if I have to work for peanuts, and live in a box truck in order for Diamond to GET that sale, and NOT lose it because of the COST of delivering it...then I feel that Diamond should supply the truck, it's that simple. If Diamond don't want to supply the truck, then fine, Diamond can figure out some other way of delivering the customers pool tables, as I won't be a part of it. It would be an interesting thing see Diamond try selling the REAL cost of delivering pool tables to the buyer!

When the tables don't get bought, and they don't get delivered...I guess then we'll know who was right...won't we, because it won't take long for the real show to begin

Glen

Diamond will make changes... but it will take your leaving for them to do it and the new guy will reap the benefits.

 

[Jason Robichaud]

I can understand your problem with running empty. If you just go and drive truck for a company you are getting probably over .40$ a mile empty or loaded.

It sounds like logistics is the problem here more than the truck (even though it has tons of problems). They should have hired an LTL trucking company to ship and hold at your next location (maybe 30 table out there waiting to be installed). They could have shipped tables and have you determine the best and most cost effective route to pick for the next install. I am guessing Diamond sells enough tables that you could find something closer than 1600 miles. That way their customers wouldn't cry about the $2000 delivery charge and when you pickup at the LTL trucking company you can package it to your spec and have them load it on your truck.

If they like your work and you continue to provide good service, they should change their logistic nightmare and keep you! Sounds like the next guy will have the same problem and do the same thing.

Added: This way Diamond would get really good rates from a company for this LTL service. The only complaint the customer would have is time. If they don't want to wait until you are in the area they can pay a quick install charge. I am sure you have been doing this long enough that when diamond ships tables and gave you an updated list you would have an accurate estimated install date that they could give customers. Again if you did have to drive 3000 miles to a customer at least it would be mostly empty miles and save a little in fuel cost. Hope it all works out.

 

[Dartman]

You are just wrong to post any of this Glen.
Your business dealings with Diamond are none of the public's business. It's YOUR business, and THEIR business.... and should have been kept that way. Going out of your way to try to publicly hurt them is wrong. It's not proper. It's not ethical.

Ah, the court of public opinion.
I see related threads on AZ all the time of people complaining about this cuemaker or that retailer, etc.
There's always a mixed reaction from the railbirds. What's right or wrong is an individual opinion.

Glen says that since an accord can't be reached with Diamond then he will part ways and he gave the reason why.
Beyond that he has not made 1 derogatory statement about Diamond - rather - he continues to praise and support the company and product.

While the thread in itself may be questionable (opinion) it's a stretch to say he is trying to hurt Diamond.
On the contrary - maybe it's a good wake up call for Diamond to reevaluate their distribution logistics.

 

[ShootingArts]

hmm

Glen,

That is truly unique. It can hardly be compared to the companies moving millions of dollars worth of precision equipment and setting it up over and over. Matter of fact my brother just left a job after two years. Aside from medical expertise and certification, it required driving a truck with a twenty foot box on it, loading and unloading roughly two-three thousand pounds of medical equipment one to three times a day and caring for this half-million dollars worth of gear. The set up of pool tables is tough? People's lives are riding on the medical equipment being set up right the first time every time. One piece alone weighed fifteen hundred pounds.

I hardly think that you are the only one in the world that can set up a pool table either. When I set up equipment in my machine shop it was level and true to a few ten-thousandths of an inch. I think that is a bit tighter spec's than required of a pool table. I don't set up pool tables, I don't mow lawns, I don't spread dirt on lots. That isn't to say I haven't done these things and couldn't again if I chose. As for weight, some of the machinery I set up for others weighed over six tons, a bit more than 618 pounds. It was considerably larger too.

Diamond subsidizes your truck now so the customer is paying Diamond part of the money for set-up and delivery and paying part of the money to you. The cost won't change if the customer sees all of it instead of part of the cost being hidden in the selling price of the table.

You are a truly unique individual. So is every other person on the face of this earth. If you were to realize that you might get along in the world a little better.

Hu

To all billiards technicians here on AZBilliards, I have a question for all of you. How many of you would be willing to drive either to Las Vegas, NV..or Jeffersonville, IN to pick up Diamond Smart Tables, or Diamond ProAms...and that includes the 9ft tables as well, with your own vehicles, and deliver them where ever they are heading anywhere in the United States? How many of you have vehicles that could handle the job? How many of you have actually delivered a 9ft ProAm or 9ft Smart Table, and set it up in a home, or bar? How many of you had one shipped to you by a trucking company so that YOU could take it off the truck and install it? Deliveries of these tables go to all 4 corners of the country keep in mind when you answer.

How many of you have ever set up, or handled a 9ft 618lb one piece slate, and installed it in a Diamond Professional table? How many of you would even be willing to try, using of course...your OWN equipment?

How many of you would be willing to do this line of work, if I personally worked with you showing you how I perform these tasks, so that you can take over distribution in your own backyards?

Glen

Please, step up to the plate, I'm looking for some help here

 

[realkingcobra]

I can understand your problem with running empty. If you just go and drive truck for a company you are getting probably over .40$ a mile empty or loaded.

It sounds like logistics is the problem here more than the truck (even though it has tons of problems). They should have hired an LTL trucking company to ship and hold at your next location (maybe 30 table out there waiting to be installed). They could have shipped tables and have you determine the best and most cost effective route to pick for the next install. I am guessing Diamond sells enough tables that you could find something closer than 1600 miles. That way their customers wouldn't cry about the $2000 delivery charge and when you pickup at the LTL trucking company you can package it to your spec and have them load it on your truck.

If they like your work and you continue to provide good service, they should change their logistic nightmare and keep you! Sounds like the next guy will have the same problem and do the same thing.

I didn't read all pages so sorry if a repeat.

They will not transport pool tables riding on dollys, sorry Next

Glen

 

[JoeyA]

Why not purchase the 5-10 box trucks and trailer then since you're the sub-contactor. Raise your delivery and installation charge to cover this acquisition expense. Diamond may not want this door-to-door distribution resposibility for obvious reasons, insurance and liability. And since you're the one who has full control over the performance of these duties then you should be solely responsible for such. You do charge just compensation for your services rendered right?

It is just sad to see that one of the last US equipment manufacturers in this sport who supports the sport even during tough economic times should go through this.

My understanding of the situation is that DIAMOND needed to address door-to-door distribution and set-up of their product. And, I'm assuming that you got wind of this and offered to do it but their problem with this was that they don't want to deal with the related requirement and liabilities (insurance and possible lawsuits arising from accidents or incompetence). So nix on employment and associated training expense and OSHA? requirements but go with sub-contracting. At the start, you used your personnal vehicle/equipment as it should be but soon such became inadequate due to the increased demand (=added workload and wear and tear on equipment). This situation then required higher capacity equipment for you to maximize your potential but weren't financially ready for this. To somewhat plug that "hole-in-the-dike" DIAMOND offered an acquisition plan, they lease you make lease payments. Aside from that, you got them to agree to paying for major repair of the vehicle since it was their need to upgrade (inadequate upgrade plan IMO). *This lease-sublease arrangement also rendered the purpose, of the sub-contracting arrangement, as useless because this identifies DIAMOND's ACTIVE involvement in the performance of these paid services should a lawsuit arise from such.

Well, the band-aid solution didn't work so you guys need to sit down and REALLY address this issue. IMO, Supplying the truck is your responsibility but if you aren't financially capable yet then form a company and ask DIAMOND to invest in it. Use that to purchase the needed equipment. I'm sure DIAMOND owners doesn't want to expose DIAMOND Corp. to the liabilities inherent to the door-to-door delivery and set-up part as evidenced by the sub-con arrangement or so they thought.

I know not of a lot of what went on but the above "guesswork", based on supplied info in this thread, may be close enough.

JMO

And what an opinion you have. I like the way you think Edwin. One day I will own one of your cues. If you put this type of thinking into someone else's problems, I can only imagine the effort you put into building cues. Can't wait to see how your new shafts play.
JoeyA

 

[Jason Robichaud]

They will not transport pool tables riding on dollys, sorry Next

Glen

Thats why I said, you can repackage them to your spec. Ship to trucking company request. Diamond would even save a little on dollys if they put them on all tables. Just charge them a packaging fee or something. I did read your post about no dolly... Notice I said re pack.

This could be a good solution to your problem if it isn't too difficult to put these on dolly for your truck. Of course other than them buying the truck and you working hourly.

 

[ScottW]

Glen -

So when a customer buys a Diamond table, Diamond doesn't charge them for the delivery - you do, correct? Do you collect direct from the customer or does the customer pay Diamond and Diamond pays you?

I'm curious how that three-way relationship works. Does Diamond put the customer in touch with you? And do you quote a fee to the customer to deliver and set the table up?

Or does Diamond do the fee quoting and just say "Hey Glen, pick up this table and take it here, here's how much you'll get for the job"?

Mind you, I'm not asking about amounts here - that's none of my (or anyone's) business - I'm just trying to figure out how the process works.

 

[fish on]

good idea

Two things
First I like your premise of the above post of regional deliveries with you being the contractor responsible for the set-up , training and delivery franchiser in charge of local sub-contractors!

second .I went to a pizza shop and they have a surcharge on their products due to the spike in flour prices!

 

[realkingcobra]

Glen -

So when a customer buys a Diamond table, Diamond doesn't charge them for the delivery - you do, correct? Do you collect direct from the customer or does the customer pay Diamond and Diamond pays you?

Diamond collects, then pays me. Sometimes Brian calls and asks me extra for stairs, and can a one piece slate fit in the location.

 

[realkingcobra]

Thats why I said, you can repackage them to your spec. Ship to trucking company request. Diamond would even save a little on dollys if they put them on all tables. Just charge them a packaging fee or something. I did read your post about no dolly... Notice I said re pack.

This could be a good solution to your problem if it isn't too difficult to put these on dolly for your truck. Of course other than them buying the truck and you working hourly.

Diamond dollys at cost...run $600.00

 

[Scott Lee]

Total agreement here! I purchased, disassembled, loaded, transported (over 1500 miles), and reassembled 4 Diamond Pro tables...all of which were perfect before I left the customer's house. That said, I lost money on the deal, even though I purchased the tables used, for a very reasonable cost (because I value my TIME & EFFORT a LOT). The labor involved is far more than I want to do...and as such, I wouldn't do it again!

Anyone working for themselves, who does ANYTHING for a living, for years, for little or no profit, either has NO business sense, or is an idiot. I'd like to think that Glen is neither...but... you gotta wonder! It's one thing to do something you love...it's another to do for free, or worse, LOSING $$$! Who owns this problem? It's certainly not Diamond...

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Glen,

I hardly think that you are the only one in the world that can set up a pool table either.

Diamond subsidizes your truck now so the customer is paying Diamond part of the money for set-up and delivery and paying part of the money to you. The cost won't change if the customer sees all of it instead of part of the cost being hidden in the selling price of the table.

You are a truly unique individual. So is every other person on the face of this earth. If you were to realize that you might get along in the world a little better.

Hu