Old versus New

freddy the beard

freddy the beard

Freddy Bentivegna
Silver Member
I just remembered an incident that occurred at Bensingers in the 60s that confirms my belief that the old-timers were a different breed, and much tougher to beat. Isadore "Pony" Rosen was playing Polack Vince the Killer, a game of 3 cushion billiards, 25 points for $10. They were playing even. Pony came up, ran 13 billiards, and then astonishingly, played a deliberate safety and ended his inning! Staring at a frozen Q ball and the other 2 balls 10 feet away, a flabbergasted Vince called Pony a long string of nit-names. Since only a handful of players in the history of the game had ever ran a 13, the purist in Vince couldnt understand how Pony could sacrifice his chance at immortality for a stinkin 10 dollars. Pony's honest reply was typical of the mind-set of the Depression-era hustler, "Why should I shoot? I didnt have a good shot."

the Beard
 
Amen brother! Whether it was pocket billiards or 3-C, the older players were definitely better. They were playin' for keeps back then. If they missed, their families (or themselves) could easily go hungry! Even today's top 3-C players worldwide do not run 13 very often! IIRC the world record is somewhere around 30-something, which is astonishing! I've personally witnessed 15 in a row, which simply blew my mind! My high run EVER is only a measly 7! Beautiful game to see it played that way!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
immortality is fine

Immortality is fine but it doesn't pay the rent. Seldom does competition play equal the intensity of a gambling match when both players need the money.

Hu


freddy the beard said:
I just remembered an incident that occurred at Bensingers in the 60s that confirms my belief that the old-timers were a different breed, and much tougher to beat. Isadore "Pony" Rosen was playing Polack Vince the Killer, a game of 3 cushion billiards, 25 points for $10. They were playing even. Pony came up, ran 13 billiards, and then astonishingly, played a deliberate safety and ended his inning! Staring at a frozen Q ball and the other 2 balls 10 feet away, a flabbergasted Vince called Pony a long string of nit-names. Since only a handful of players in the history of the game had ever ran a 13, the purist in Vince couldnt understand how Pony could sacrifice his chance at immortality for a stinkin 10 dollars. Pony's honest reply was typical of the mind-set of the Depression-era hustler, "Why should I shoot? I didnt have a good shot."

the Beard
Click to expand...
 
Tell me freddy...

How many mornings did you "Have the wolf kicking you in the mouth with not the money for a coffee or a sinker"?

One of my favorite lines from McGoorty.

Now that is tough.

Ken
 
freddy the beard said:
I just remembered an incident that occurred at Bensingers in the 60s that confirms my belief that the old-timers were a different breed, and much tougher to beat. Isadore "Pony" Rosen was playing Polack Vince the Killer, a game of 3 cushion billiards, 25 points for $10. They were playing even. Pony came up, ran 13 billiards, and then astonishingly, played a deliberate safety and ended his inning! Staring at a frozen Q ball and the other 2 balls 10 feet away, a flabbergasted Vince called Pony a long string of nit-names. Since only a handful of players in the history of the game had ever ran a 13, the purist in Vince couldnt understand how Pony could sacrifice his chance at immortality for a stinkin 10 dollars. Pony's honest reply was typical of the mind-set of the Depression-era hustler, "Why should I shoot? I didnt have a good shot."

the Beard
Click to expand...

You'll love this one. Pancho is in The Billiard Den and is playing a sucker $5 9-Ball. They play all day and about Midnite the guy quits stuck $180! The time is $16 and the poor sucker looks at Pancho and asks "Can you get the time?" Pancho's reply "Time, what time, I thought we were playing for the time!" :)

You gotta love it. They ended up splitting the time. That was the best Pancho would do.
 
I remember the story about Cliff Thorburn playing some guy called Canadian Dick. Cliff said he knew he was in for a long match when Dick layed out 3 pairs of socks as he was getting ready to play! I think the match lasted 54 hours.
 
Of course they were. We all know they had to walk barefoot in the snow uphill both ways 20 miles just to get to the pool hall...
 
freddy the beard said:
I just remembered an incident that occurred at Bensingers in the 60s that confirms my belief that the old-timers were a different breed, and much tougher to beat. Isadore "Pony" Rosen was playing Polack Vince the Killer, a game of 3 cushion billiards, 25 points for $10. They were playing even. Pony came up, ran 13 billiards, and then astonishingly, played a deliberate safety and ended his inning! Staring at a frozen Q ball and the other 2 balls 10 feet away, a flabbergasted Vince called Pony a long string of nit-names. Since only a handful of players in the history of the game had ever ran a 13, the purist in Vince couldnt understand how Pony could sacrifice his chance at immortality for a stinkin 10 dollars. Pony's honest reply was typical of the mind-set of the Depression-era hustler, "Why should I shoot? I didnt have a good shot."

the Beard
Click to expand...

I've always thought winning a smaller amounts every time, beats waiting for the big win.
 
freddy the beard said:
I just remembered an incident that occurred at Bensingers in the 60s that confirms my belief that the old-timers were a different breed, and much tougher to beat. Isadore "Pony" Rosen was playing Polack Vince the Killer, a game of 3 cushion billiards, 25 points for $10. They were playing even. Pony came up, ran 13 billiards, and then astonishingly, played a deliberate safety and ended his inning! Staring at a frozen Q ball and the other 2 balls 10 feet away, a flabbergasted Vince called Pony a long string of nit-names. Since only a handful of players in the history of the game had ever ran a 13, the purist in Vince couldnt understand how Pony could sacrifice his chance at immortality for a stinkin 10 dollars. Pony's honest reply was typical of the mind-set of the Depression-era hustler, "Why should I shoot? I didnt have a good shot."

the Beard
Click to expand...

A similar story that I always get a kick out of is this one from the Wikipedia entry on Irving Crane:

"Highlighting Crane's both cautious approach and mastery, Mike Sigel, one of pool's most illustrious players, reportedly asked Crane to play one day when Sigel was a young player. Crane assented and after Sigel broke, Crane ran 200 balls and then played a safety."

Run 200 balls and then play safe. Now that's strong.
 
Kind of like

when you think you have the 'best of it' and play a lockup safety, and your opponent steps up plays a 3-4 rail kick, with a lock up safety back! And you go, 'Oh oh'!!!
 
Funny stuff Fred. Thanks for sharing.

It reminded me of something that I can't remember who said it (but I want to say it was Grady)...anyway, he said instead of running 150 & out on his opponant, he wanted to run 149 and then play safe while corner hooking his opponant! I wish I could remember who said that, but I too am getting older. I'm pretty sure that Jay or you or someone else will recall who said that though. I'm fairly certain it was Grady, but I may be wrong.
 
Terry Ardeno said:
Funny stuff Fred. Thanks for sharing.

It reminded me of something that I can't remember who said it (but I want to say it was Grady)...anyway, he said instead of running 150 & out on his opponant, he wanted to run 149 and then play safe while corner hooking his opponant! I wish I could remember who said that, but I too am getting older. I'm pretty sure that Jay or you or someone else will recall who said that though. I'm fairly certain it was Grady, but I may be wrong.
Click to expand...

Grady is a little sadistic that way. Sounds like something he might say. On camera too.
 
And he did say it on camera. He was teasing one of his fellow commentators (you all know who), that this is probably his ultimate fantasy, having the guy 149 to nothing and corner hooked. :D
 
It's Grady's line

Terry Ardeno said:
Funny stuff Fred. Thanks for sharing.

It reminded me of something that I can't remember who said it (but I want to say it was Grady)...anyway, he said instead of running 150 & out on his opponant, he wanted to run 149 and then play safe while corner hooking his opponant! I wish I could remember who said that, but I too am getting older. I'm pretty sure that Jay or you or someone else will recall who said that though. I'm fairly certain it was Grady, but I may be wrong.
Click to expand...

It belongs to Grady, but he uses it in different situations. He also used it to describe Chicago style 1pkt and bank players.

the Beard
 
I miss the rascal

jay helfert said:
You'll love this one. Pancho is in The Billiard Den and is playing a sucker $5 9-Ball. They play all day and about Midnite the guy quits stuck $180! The time is $16 and the poor sucker looks at Pancho and asks "Can you get the time?" Pancho's reply "Time, what time, I thought we were playing for the time!" :)

You gotta love it. They ended up splitting the time. That was the best Pancho would do.
Click to expand...

Ah, the good old days. God punished Pancho for his sins, however. He had the worst behaved kids in the history of civilization. When he was staying at my house I caught his 10 year old grandson, Benjie, stealing $200 from him. The kid got busted when he put the bills in his shoe and my dog dug 'em out and was running around the house with the money in his mouth. True to the hustler code I didnt snitch on the kid but I made him put the cheese back. The same kid was barred from Chris's Billiards for life at age 5, for scarring up the billiard chairs with a knife.

the Beard
 
I'm unimpressed

Especially with the high runs of the old days. Playing on 5" pockets, which as I understand it was commonplace kind of changes things don't you think?

The 3C run is very impressive though.
 
maxeypad2007 said:
Especially with the high runs of the old days. Playing on 5" pockets, which as I understand it was commonplace kind of changes things don't you think?

The 3C run is very impressive though.
Click to expand...

Where does the idea come from that 5 in pockets were the norm?
I've played for decades - no room, that had serious players,
that I ever saw, had any tables with 5 inch pockets.
Have you ever seen one?

Get impressed - prior to 1950, Pro 14.1 was played on 5 x 10s
with 4 1/2 in pockets - Mosconi and Crane both had runs
over 300 on that kind of table.

Let us know when you run 10 on a 5 x 10.

Dale<who whishes he had been there>
 
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