Ortmann-Hall of Fame

[Roy Steffensen]

Are they the governing body? I thought it was the WPA. I don't understand the hierarchy, I guess. The BCA has made some transformations in the past few years. The WPA seems to desire all tournaments to be sanctioned by them, meaning they get a percentage of the event, I think. What they do with the monies is supposed to promote pool, I had thought.

One question I have today is why there are not two people inducted into the BCA's Hall of Fame like they have traditionally done in previous years? They limit it to one person each year now for the last 2 years.

JAM

WPA is the world governing body. BCA is for America, EPBF is for Europe. Don't know who rules for Asia. (Actually it isn't that hard to understand, if you try to)

EPBF is doing a very good job for Europe. Could of course been much better, but compared to BCA we Europeans are obviously in heaven. (How sad is that...?)

 

[Roy Steffensen]

Are they the governing body? I thought it was the WPA. I don't understand the hierarchy, I guess. The BCA has made some transformations in the past few years. The WPA seems to desire all tournaments to be sanctioned by them, meaning they get a percentage of the event, I think. What they do with the monies is supposed to promote pool, I had thought.

One question I have today is why there are not two people inducted into the BCA's Hall of Fame like they have traditionally done in previous years? They limit it to one person each year now for the last 2 years.

JAM

WPA is the world governing body. BCA is for America, EPBF is for Europe. Don't know who rules for Asia. (Actually it isn't that hard to understand, if you try to. I have posted this in several threads where these issues have been discussed)

EPBF is doing a very good job for Europe. Could of course been much better, but compared to BCA we Europeans are obviously in heaven. (How sad is that...?)

 

[Terry Ardeno]

One question I have today is why there are not two people inducted into the BCA's Hall of Fame like they have traditionally done in previous years? They limit it to one person each year now for the last 2 years.

JAM

I don't know what their protocal is for this,year, however, I do know for a certainty that in years past, every "vender" that bought a booth at the BCA trade show was given "voting rights" as to who / how many got inducted into the BCA HOF. I'm not sure if that part was for WHO got on the ballot or rather WHO (from the ballot) was inducted. Tell me that THAT makes sense???
What's the result of that cavalier attitude towards our great sports all time greats???
Can you imagine...Earl Strickland was on the ballot AND PASSED OVER 4 TIMES PREVIOUSLY before gaining induction! Amazing. The greatest tournament 9 baller EVER is passed over WHILE ON THE BALLOT 4 years!
This is embarrassing to even post this kind of nonsense.

In the April 2006 issue of Billiards Digest, on the bottom of page 12 is a blurb about how the BCA came under criticism for their HOF voting structure.

 

[Terry Ardeno]

I forgot one more thing....

Yes, I AM STILL whining about Earl Strickland having been passed over for that many years.

It was ridiculous.

 

[TheOne]

WPA is the world governing body. BCA is for America, EPBF is for Europe. Don't know who rules for Asia. (Actually it isn't that hard to understand, if you try to. I have posted this in several threads where these issues have been discussed)

EPBF is doing a very good job for Europe. Could of course been much better, but compared to BCA we Europeans are obviously in heaven. (How sad is that...?)

TAP TAP TAP

It really isnt that hard to understand at all, if u want to that is...

 

[azhousepro]

As of this year, the hall of fame nominees and inductees are determined by the members of the billiards media.

Anyone 40 years or older can be nominated during the nomination phase, and then all of the voting members place their votes. Voting members can vote for multiple inductees. The top vote getter is inducted and if the 2nd place vote getter has 75% or more of the vote, they are also inducted.

Mike

I don't know what their protocal is for this,year, however, I do know for a certainty that in years past, every "vender" that bought a booth at the BCA trade show was given "voting rights" as to who / how many got inducted into the BCA HOF. I'm not sure if that part was for WHO got on the ballot or rather WHO (from the ballot) was inducted. Tell me that THAT makes sense???
What's the result of that cavalier attitude towards our great sports all time greats???
Can you imagine...Earl Strickland was on the ballot AND PASSED OVER 4 TIMES PREVIOUSLY before gaining induction! Amazing. The greatest tournament 9 baller EVER is passed over WHILE ON THE BALLOT 4 years!
This is embarrassing to even post this kind of nonsense.

In the April 2006 issue of Billiards Digest, on the bottom of page 12 is a blurb about how the BCA came under criticism for their HOF voting structure.

 

[JAM]

WPA is the world governing body. BCA is for America, EPBF is for Europe. Don't know who rules for Asia. (Actually it isn't that hard to understand, if you try to. I have posted this in several threads where these issues have been discussed)

Here in the United States, I have not seen much by way of publicity, advertisement, or news articles about EPBF. The WPA, yes, I have heard of.

I do not understand your comment "if you try to" unless, once again, there is a tag team of foreign posters trying to flame me. You don't have to like me one bit because I am a patriotic American. That is your right and, of course, opinion. I am not a racist. Your hints and comments are insulting and hurtful, but I think you and your buddy know this. That is why you keep it going. I respectfully request that you do not continue this attempt at making me out something that I am not.

EPBF is doing a very good job for Europe. Could of course been much better, but compared to BCA we Europeans are obviously in heaven. (How sad is that...?)

I'm happy for you.

JAM

 

[Roy Steffensen]

I do not understand your comment "if you try to" unless, once again, there is a tag team of foreign posters trying to flame me. You don't have to like me one bit because I am a patriotic American. That is your right and, of course, opinion. I am not a racist. Your hints and comments are insulting and hurtful, but I think you and your buddy know this. That is why you keep it going. I respectfully request that you do not continue this attempt at making me out something that I am not.

JAM

First of all I have never called you a racist, and I never will. I don't know how you could twist my words "if you try to" to make them mean that you're a racist. You write that my hints and comments are hurtful, so it looks like I have made hints and comments about you being a racist. Can you please tell me what you actually meant, and why you are quoting me when telling that you're not a racist?

I don't mind people being patriotic Americans, and can't quite see where I have written that or that I don't like you either...

My buddy? You mean Craig Riley? You think we gather together just to find out how to flame you? I've met Craig at the eurotour once, and apart from that I like most of his posts, just as I like most of your posts. Does that make you my buddy too then?

What I meant with my post is that in some other threads in the past where this issue has been discussed you have asked what the WPA have done for American pool, and I wrote it back then that WPA is not supposed to organize national tournaments in America. That's the BCA who is supposed to. Tried to find the posts now, but can't find it...

Anyway, the thing is, I have mentioned it before, but it looks like you either can't or won't understand it. I have got the impression that you're a smart woman, so maybe you just doesn't want to understand it, because it makes complaining a little harder...

If you realize that it is the BCA who is supposed to promote American Pool in America and make tours/tournaments for American Pros, not the WPA, then you also realize that it's the American's themselves who is the problem with American pool in America, not the WPA. And that can perhaps be hard to accept for patriotic American's?

 

[TheOne]

First of all I have never called you a racist, and I never will. I don't know how you could twist my words "if you try to" to make them mean that you're a racist. You write that my hints and comments are hurtful, so it looks like I have made hints and comments about you being a racist. Can you please tell me what you actually meant, and why you are quoting me when telling that you're not a racist?

I don't mind people being patriotic Americans, and can't quite see where I have written that or that I don't like you either...

My buddy? You mean Craig Riley? You think we gather together just to find out how to flame you? I've met Craig at the eurotour once, and apart from that I like most of his posts, just as I like most of your posts. Does that make you my buddy too then?

What I meant with my post is that in some other threads in the past where this issue has been discussed you have asked what the WPA have done for American pool, and I wrote it back then that WPA is not supposed to organize national tournaments in America. That's the BCA who is supposed to. Tried to find the posts now, but can't find it...

Anyway, the thing is, I have mentioned it before, but it looks like you either can't or won't understand it. I have got the impression that you're a smart woman, so maybe you just doesn't want to understand it, because it makes complaining a little harder...

If you realize that it is the BCA who is supposed to promote American Pool in America and make tours/tournaments for American Pros, not the WPA, then you also realize that it's the American's themselves who is the problem with American pool in America, not the WPA. And that can perhaps be hard to accept for patriotic American's?

Hey "buddy"

Pretty much bang on Ive tried explaining this before MANY times but I think the reasons you quote seem likely reasons why its not understood.

I'm not sure anyone ever mentioned the word racist because of nationalism, but I understand why many people used it before I agreed with it. I'm pretty sure it was the infamous "Europeans are disgusting" comment!

 

[hemicudas]

Voting members can vote for multiple inductees. The top vote getter is inducted and if the 2nd place vote getter has 75% or more of the vote, they are also inducted.

Mike

Yes, Mike but have those "voting members" changed? Didn't think so. There in lies the problem.

 

[Blackjack]

If you realize that it is the BCA who is supposed to promote American Pool in America and make tours/tournaments for American Pros, not the WPA, then you also realize that it's the American's themselves who is the problem with American pool in America, not the WPA. And that can perhaps be hard to accept for patriotic American's?

That's only hard for some of us to accept, Roy, not all of us.

Jennie, you can visit the WPA website as well as the website for the WCBS and it clearly outlines what these organization do for pool globally.

http://www.billiard-wcbs.org/

http://www.wpa-pool.com/

Currently there are no Americans on the board of the WCBS. If you look at how the WCBS organization is modeled, its foundation is the players/members.

You can see that the WPA is the world body of pocket billiards - under them you will find Continental and National Federations for pool and billiards. The U.S. falls way behind other countries, and North America falls way behind Europe in "organization" at the National and Continental levels.

Why is that?

It is because we are stubbornly arrogant in our attempt to show the rest of the world that we can build a better, rounder wheel.

This is the main reason that pool's popularity is flourishing in Europe and Asia, and in North America we get little respect, if any.

If you look at the WPA, we have one board member representing North America (Ed Smith) and one member representing the United States (Fran Crimi). We have just as much representation as Asia, Europe, Australia, and other countries.

It comes down to supporting the entire sport in the global spectre, not just within the United States. The WPA is not the imperial force of evil that Kevin Trudeau and Mike Sigel painted them out to be. In fact, if Kevin had agreed to the sanctioning - the IPT prizes would have been guaranteed prior to the events taking place and it would have saved everybody a lot of trouble. Kevin's money paid towards sanctioning would have gone right back into the sport in the way of marketing and advertising and the effect would have been tremendous. IMO, trying to go it alone and establishing themselves as a private business instead of powerful member of the international and global billiard community was the major strategical error that has led the IPT to where it is today.

Its real easy to sit back and say that the WPA does nothing when you are sitting in the United States. That boat won't float very well in Europe and Asia where the game has experienced PHENOMENAL growth since the WPA was founded in 1988-89. Jorgen Sandman (President of the WCBS and one of the founders of the WPA) has done more for the worldwide growth of the games of pool and billiards than anybody in history, yet many Americans wouldn't know who he was if they tripped over him.

 

[JAM]

Thanks for the extraordinary explanation, Blackjack! That is quite helpful for those who desire to gain an understanding of the hierarchy. I had never seen that before.

Funny thing about Forum Culture is when people take poster's words out of context, then cut-and-paste to emphasize their words out of context, the flames inevitably come forth.

This thread has done it for me. I'm sick and damn tired of arguing with Craig Riley, et al. I contributed to this thread with what knowledge I had, and also I learned a great deal from reading the posts written by others, like the one Blackjack just wrote.

I would appreciate it very much if the innuendos and other nonsensical comments made by foreign posters who do not like me would cease and desist. I am only on this forum to have an enjoyable experience, share what bits of knowledge I may have as well as learn from others. I am not here to argue and don't like having to endure some of nasty comments, some of which are blatant lies and falsehoods, keep coming forth. In other words, leave me alone. This forum is big enough for everybody to enjoy. The innuendos are deliberate attempts to keep a flame brewing that I have no desire to be a part of. I cannot say it any more clearer than that, but I have said it, once more, to establish a record on this thread for future innuendos thrown my way.

JAM

 

[NYC cue dude]

TAP TAP TAP

Finally a factual post on the subject of the governing bodies of pool.

Thanks David.

Rg

 

[JAM]

That's only hard for some of us to accept, Roy, not all of us.

Jennie, you can visit the WPA website as well as the website for the WCBS and it clearly outlines what these organization do for pool globally.

http://www.billiard-wcbs.org/

http://www.wpa-pool.com/

Currently there are no Americans on the board of the WCBS. If you look at how the WCBS organization is modeled, its foundation is the players/members.

You can see that the WPA is the world body of pocket billiards - under them you will find Continental and National Federations for pool and billiards. The U.S. falls way behind other countries, and North America falls way behind Europe in "organization" at the National and Continental levels.

Why is that?

It is because we are stubbornly arrogant in our attempt to show the rest of the world that we can build a better, rounder wheel.

This is the main reason that pool's popularity is flourishing in Europe and Asia, and in North America we get little respect, if any.

If you look at the WPA, we have one board member representing North America (Ed Smith) and one member representing the United States (Fran Crimi). We have just as much representation as Asia, Europe, Australia, and other countries.

It comes down to supporting the entire sport in the global spectre, not just within the United States. The WPA is not the imperial force of evil that Kevin Trudeau and Mike Sigel painted them out to be. In fact, if Kevin had agreed to the sanctioning - the IPT prizes would have been guaranteed prior to the events taking place and it would have saved everybody a lot of trouble. Kevin's money paid towards sanctioning would have gone right back into the sport in the way of marketing and advertising and the effect would have been tremendous. IMO, trying to go it alone and establishing themselves as a private business instead of powerful member of the international and global billiard community was the major strategical error that has led the IPT to where it is today.

Its real easy to sit back and say that the WPA does nothing when you are sitting in the United States. That boat won't float very well in Europe and Asia where the game has experienced PHENOMENAL growth since the WPA was founded in 1988-89. Jorgen Sandman (President of the WCBS and one of the founders of the WPA) has done more for the worldwide growth of the games of pool and billiards than anybody in history, yet many Americans wouldn't know who he was if they tripped over him.

That truly is a great post, Blackjack, and I gave you good rep for it because I had never known much about those organizations.

I notice they spelled "Organisation" wrong!

JAM

 

[Roy Steffensen]

Great post David!

JAM: I'll leave you alone on the forum, though I feel it's you that take my words out of context As I said, I believe you're a smart woman and I like most of your posts, so hope you will continue to share stories in the future too. By the way, thanks for the bad rep, much appreciated!

 

[TheOne]

Thanks for the extraordinary explanation, Blackjack! That is quite helpful for those who desire to gain an understanding of the hierarchy. I had never seen that before.

Funny thing about Forum Culture is when people take poster's words out of context, then cut-and-paste to emphasize their words out of context, the flames inevitably come forth.

This thread has done it for me. I'm sick and damn tired of arguing with Craig Riley, et al. I contributed to this thread with what knowledge I had, and also I learned a great deal from reading the posts written by others, like the one Blackjack just wrote.

I would appreciate it very much if the innuendos and other nonsensical comments made by foreign posters who do not like me would cease and desist. I am only on this forum to have an enjoyable experience, share what bits of knowledge I may have as well as learn from others. I am not here to argue and don't like having to endure some of nasty comments, some of which are blatant lies and falsehoods, keep coming forth. In other words, leave me alone. This forum is big enough for everybody to enjoy. The innuendos are deliberate attempts to keep a flame brewing that I have no desire to be a part of. I cannot say it any more clearer than that, but I have said it, once more, to establish a record on this thread for future innuendos thrown my way.

JAM

Geez talk about pot and kettle, you've bashed me in 3 threads recently before I ever even entered, stop trolling me please. I ignored you in two but can't keep ignoring you.

If you don't like this topic stop bringing up "buckinghm guards", "blue blooded purists", "certain foriegners", "hating my avatar", etc etc and as for wanting other players to "smash me" how sad was that comment. Without a doubt the first time I have ever seen anyone on this forum wanting another member to lose. You just wont let it go, get over it your "out of context" excuses dont wash with me.

You attack anyone that disagrees with you and give them negative rep!

Live and let live

PS
I have posted this link and diagram several times before for JAM!

 

[SpiderWebComm]

That truly is a great post, Blackjack, and I gave you good rep for it because I had never known much about those organizations.

I notice they spelled "Organisation" wrong!

JAM

That's the correct spelling in Europe. Just like Authorization is spelled Authorisation-- S replaces the Z.



Dave

 

[sjm]

That's only hard for some of us to accept, Roy, not all of us.

Jennie, you can visit the WPA website as well as the website for the WCBS and it clearly outlines what these organization do for pool globally.

http://www.billiard-wcbs.org/

http://www.wpa-pool.com/

Currently there are no Americans on the board of the WCBS. If you look at how the WCBS organization is modeled, its foundation is the players/members.

You can see that the WPA is the world body of pocket billiards - under them you will find Continental and National Federations for pool and billiards. The U.S. falls way behind other countries, and North America falls way behind Europe in "organization" at the National and Continental levels.

Why is that?

It is because we are stubbornly arrogant in our attempt to show the rest of the world that we can build a better, rounder wheel.

This is the main reason that pool's popularity is flourishing in Europe and Asia, and in North America we get little respect, if any.

If you look at the WPA, we have one board member representing North America (Ed Smith) and one member representing the United States (Fran Crimi). We have just as much representation as Asia, Europe, Australia, and other countries.

It comes down to supporting the entire sport in the global spectre, not just within the United States. The WPA is not the imperial force of evil that Kevin Trudeau and Mike Sigel painted them out to be. In fact, if Kevin had agreed to the sanctioning - the IPT prizes would have been guaranteed prior to the events taking place and it would have saved everybody a lot of trouble. Kevin's money paid towards sanctioning would have gone right back into the sport in the way of marketing and advertising and the effect would have been tremendous. IMO, trying to go it alone and establishing themselves as a private business instead of powerful member of the international and global billiard community was the major strategical error that has led the IPT to where it is today.

Its real easy to sit back and say that the WPA does nothing when you are sitting in the United States. That boat won't float very well in Europe and Asia where the game has experienced PHENOMENAL growth since the WPA was founded in 1988-89. Jorgen Sandman (President of the WCBS and one of the founders of the WPA) has done more for the worldwide growth of the games of pool and billiards than anybody in history, yet many Americans wouldn't know who he was if they tripped over him.

Nice post, Dave. Obviously, this structure is well known to those of us who have participated in the administration of our sport.

Still, I think you have understated the results we've attained here in the US. No doubt, the BCA has fumbled some issues in recent years, at times to the detriment of pro pool, but the growth of pro pool is not the appropriate measuring stick for the growth of our sport. Pool at the amateur level in America is thriving, and great growth is being experienced at lesser levels of competiton such as APA.

The biggest amateur events are drawing twice, even three times, the fields they drew just a decade ago, and more pool is being played in the bars of America than ever before. Women have, in recent years, become a very large contingent in pool's amateur scene.

So, while I'll agree that the national pool organizations in America could and must do more, I think their contributions are significant and should not be overlooked.

 

[JAM]

Geez talk about pot and kettle, you've bashed me in 3 threads recently before I ever even entered, stop trolling me please. I ignored you in two but can't keep ignoring you.

If you don't like this topic stop bringing up "buckinghm guards", "blue blooded purists", "certain foriegners", "hating my avatar", etc etc and as for wanting other players to "smash me" how sad was that comment. Without a doubt the first time I have ever seen anyone on this forum wanting another member to lose. You just wont let it go, get over it your "out of context" excuses dont wash with me.

You attack anyone that disagrees with you and give them negative rep!

Live and let live

PS
I have posted this link and diagram several times before for JAM!

Why is it that you take offense at bringing up Buckingham Guards? They are known to have an expressionless face, and I used that analogy when describing pool players who compete with this tableside demeanor.

I have not attacked anyone. Rather, it is you that keeps it going.

And for the record, since you have brought it up, I believe your avatar is demeaning to women. I have received PMs from posters on this forum who agree with me that it is degrading to look at, as well as a GOOD REP from one poster who agreed with me. Those surgically enhanced breasts on that poor woman are deformed-looking. No women matures with breasts that look like those, perfectly round like hockey pucks. Another avatar you had displayed an image of a woman on all fours on a pool table with a man behind her shooting with a cue stick aimed at her rear area. If you want to know what is disgusting, that is humiliating for women to have to look at.

I'm not a racist, Craig. I am a Riley-ist today. If I want to pull for every other player in a tournament to succeed besides you, that is my prerogative. It has nothing to do with racism or nationality.

JAM

 

[JAM]

That's the correct spelling in Europe. Just like Authorization is spelled Authorisation-- S replaces the Z.



Dave

Thanks, Dave, but I kind of knew that! I was just kidding around.

Actually, though, it would seem that the European organizations have set up a pool structure that maybe they would like Americans to adhere to, though, as so many of already stated, the American pool tournaments is where many of the European players desire to hang their cues.

I asked one European champion at a Skins Billiards Championship in Atlantic City why he liked playing pool in the United States, and he said -- and I quote -- "Because there are many more opportunities available for pool players in America."

And so there you have it. If this is the way most people think, it is a shame that the BCA does not exert more interest, to include monies, into professional pool. They include international players in the BCA Open each year by having their representation in about half of the 64-player field. I have not read about or learned of any European organizations which provide the same platform for American players.

Some may disagree with my opinion, but that is the way I see it. Europeans come here to compete much more often than Americans go to Europe to compete. If the European entities are intent on elevating pool as a sport worldwide, they should exert a little more effort to include Americans in their events, giving pool players in America something to shoot for over in Europe.

JAM