over 60 years of playing pool

D

deanoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
with lots of memories,but when i read these threads about aiming
tempo and many other ideas,i realize i know nothing about a game
i have been playing all my life

Makes me feel strange to be not only a poor player
but not even knowledgeable

as a kid there were no instructors,and the group of players that i met were seldom interested in giving advice,by the time i reached a certain plateau I mistakenly
made the assumption that instruction wouldn't help

not that i lacked opportunities,i spent time with Jersey Red,Eddie Taylor and others,they showed me a few shots,Billy Incardone explained theories about strategy in one pocket but I never really got the basics,in fact I am not sure what the basics are

Looking back,I wish I had studied under a teacher,and learned to practice properly
 
Thank you Dean. One day I hope to have a reason and the ca$h to pick up the phone and call you. I have a hunch it would a interesting conversation:groucho:

Best,

-Kat,
 
deanoc said:
with lots of memories,but when i read these threads about aiming
tempo and many other ideas,i realize i know nothing about a game
i have been playing all my life

Makes me feel strange to be not only a poor player
but not even knowledgeable

as a kid there were no instructors,and the group of players that i met were seldom interested in giving advice,by the time i reached a certain plateau I mistakenly
made the assumption that instruction wouldn't help

not that i lacked opportunities,i spent time with Jersey Red,Eddie Taylor and others,they showed me a few shots,Billy Incardone explained theories about strategy in one pocket but I never really got the basics,in fact I am not sure what the basics are

Looking back,I wish I had studied under a teacher,and learned to practice properly
Click to expand...
Deanoc....aside from pool you come up with some seriously nice cues:thumbup:
 
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Never too late to learn something new. My mother is learning a new language, and she's 71 years old. She's getting pretty good at it too. Now I have no excuses to slack off on my language skills..

I hope I can play for as long as you, but I started late in life, so there probably isn't too much of a chance of that happening. I bet you have seen some amazing play and interesting things happening in the pool room. I have enjoyed your posts about them.

Good luck to you on your pool journey.
 
Dave-Kat said:
Thank you Dean. One day I hope to have a reason and the ca$h to pick up the phone and call you. I have a hunch it would a interesting conversation:groucho:

Best,

-Kat,
Click to expand...
I've talked to Dean before and didn't have any cash! Dean's a good guy and would talk about a number of subjects.
 
I have a similar story as yours, I was lucky enough to get some great instruction from a guy they called George Dog and from George Rood , I also read everything I can get my hands on and watch instructional videos, and high level matches .
The more I learn, the more I know that I am just scratching the surface.
 
Mr. Dean.........Me Thinks Thou Protest a Wee Bit Too Much........

Dean,

Let me ask you this........what did the great players back in the 30's & 40's do to get better?

Willie started out as a child playing pool but who taught him about aiming and the physics of ball collision, etc. What about the likes of Crane & Greenleaf, or better yet, Cowboy Jimmy Moore, Lou Butera, Grady Matthews, Luther Lassiter, etc. What did they do to get better as players and I'm betting they didn't take any lessons from another player......that's just a supposition on my part,


There's always the temptation to compare players from different eras but are the best players today really better skilled than the great players from the 30's, 40's 50's & 60's? I really don't know the answer if there truly was one but I suspect it's more the Indian rather than the bow or arrow. In other words, with all the sophisticated teaching methods for improving as a pool player, it always comes down to the player. And despite not having the advantage of using today's modern training methods and reference materials, Willie and his aforementioned peers were exemplary great pool players well versed in all the aspects of billiards.

My gut tells me you express way too much humility over your pool knowledge, skills, pool cues, pool tables & memorabilia, and especially the amazing connections and great relationships developed over the years with cue-makers and other craftsmen, world renown pool players......you're a cornucopia of anecdotal road stories that are just priceless to read. Dean, I think you while you might be inclined to lobby for the 7 in a game of 9 ball, in truth, you probably should be instead giving the 8........just a hunch on my part.


Matt B.
 
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Dean,

I guess I was just lucky to have had several good players take an interest in my game starting at 14 years of age.

I learned at the Student center at SMU and there were several players that would help me with straight pool every night.

The rest of the time I practiced with Mosconis' book on the rail.

I tried everything people showed me and rejected what didn't work for me.
What did, I kept and still use today.

Different people learn in different ways.

I learned to play for money when someone took me to play Charlie Clark. I went from playing for 10 cents to 10 dollars a game 9-ball in one day.

Without help I probably would not have learned how to play so fast.

The one thing no one can teach you is how to win. It is different than playing. It comes for inside yourself.

Bill S.
 
Bavafongoul said:
Dean,

Let me ask you this........what did the great players back in the 30's & 40's do to get better?

Willie started out as a child playing pool but who taught him about aiming and the physics of ball collision, etc. What about the likes of Crane & Greenleaf, or better yet, Cowboy Jimmy Moore, Lou Butera, Grady Matthews, Luther Lassiter, etc. What did they do to get better as players and I'm betting they didn't take any lessons from another player......that's just a supposition on my part,


There's always the temptation to compare players from different eras but are the best players today really better skilled than the great players from the 30's, 40's 50's & 60's? I really don't know the answer if there truly was one but I suspect it's more the Indian rather than the bow or arrow. In other words, with all the sophisticated teaching methods for improving as a pool player, it always comes down to the player. And despite not having the advantage of using today's modern training methods and reference materials, Willie and his aforementioned peers were exemplary great pool players well versed in all the aspects of billiards.

My gut tells me you express way too much humility over your pool knowledge, skills, pool cues, pool tables & memorabilia, and especially the amazing connections and great relationships developed over the years with cue-makers and other craftsmen, world renown pool players......you're a cornucopia of anecdotal road stories that are just priceless to read. Dean, I think you while you might be inclined to lobby for the 7 in a game of 9 ball, in truth, you probably should be instead giving the 8........just a hunch on my part.

Matt B.
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---------------:thumbup2:-------------------

Way way TOO MUCH credit given to "instruction".

No one taught Ben Hogan. He dug his swing from out of the ground...

& if not for a schedule issue he may have been the only man to Win the Modern Day Grand Slam in a single year of 1953 & that was after a life threatening head on collision with a bus in which his unselfish effort to save his Wife probably saved his own life.

All Best Wishes for ALL.
 
deanoc said:
with lots of memories,but when i read these threads about aiming
tempo and many other ideas,i realize i know nothing about a game
i have been playing all my life

Makes me feel strange to be not only a poor player
but not even knowledgeable

as a kid there were no instructors,and the group of players that i met were seldom interested in giving advice,by the time i reached a certain plateau I mistakenly
made the assumption that instruction wouldn't help

not that i lacked opportunities,i spent time with Jersey Red,Eddie Taylor and others,they showed me a few shots,Billy Incardone explained theories about strategy in one pocket but I never really got the basics,in fact I am not sure what the basics are

Looking back,I wish I had studied under a teacher,and learned to practice properly
Click to expand...

you know plenty dean......alot of what your talking about is system style stuff that was only made basically to teach/communicate methods to others that could help them.....i've know some very good players over the years that can't explain to really talk about many things they do, they just do.....thats just a natural rote system built from years of trial and error.


Even say "game theory" and "strategy" in one pocket.......you brought up many great players who showed you things, told you this and that.....its all from their viewpoint.

As an example: (hope i dont upset billy somehow :/ ) Billy Incardone is a good commentator, good one pocket commentator....hell he's in the one pocket hall of fame lol. Listen to Billy commentate on Effrens matches.......at times Effren makes him sound like Mitch Lawrence lol. There is the RUB. Effren makes alot of decisions we wouldnt normally even think about....that other great players dont think about lol....but we are all like that, very unique at end of day.

Of all games in pool......yes there are basic rules and bla bla.....but one pocket, must be played within the constraints of your knowledge and abilities....and you must play the game your way......even though we all may make similar moves and such we all play inherently differiently.

Like look at the syle of Buddy Hall an then Effren.....or Effren and Scott Frost....Chip Compton/Joey Grey........

there are obvious bad moves, like alot of the kicks you see newbs going after etc.....but the style and what you do takes a long time to make beccause it all comes off our individual repertoires we build.

Our patterns are all unique. :)

You could just invite me over some time dean :)

practice more begining of rack scenarios, andmore end game scenario like playing last ball one hole or just having a few out there.

The better players are better at start game and end game......thats the cutting edges to the razor if you ask me.

-Keeb'
 
ENGLISH! said:
---------------:thumbup2:-------------------what are you thumbing up?

Way way TOO MUCH credit given to "instruction". what is it with you and teachers/instructors/coaches? You bring up one example from history with Ben Hogan in golf, when there are MILLIONS of people who have benefited from coaching/instruction/teaching across the world in many different niches. I'm always waiting to hear some Bill Bowerman-esq line from you, "dont call me coach, meanest sob i ever met insisted on being called that, you can call me Bill" Are there some bad teachers, coaches, intructors? Hell yes of course. But got dam just like with the oil field, when one thing happens it doesn't mean the entire industry needs be shut down, they dont do it when a plane crashes, or a car.......is that why you never really come out and say something other than personal experience and "if it works for you?" so you dont get labeled as an instructor? Is the word Instructor like kryptonite to you, or does it just bother you like people with a phobia?

No one taught Ben Hogan. He dug his swing from out of the ground...again.....this is BEN HOGAN your talking about, it could be Michael Jordan, Mickey Mantle, Billy Mills, or the dam drummer from Def Leppard with one arm.........there is a common theme among people like this......THEY ARE CHAMPIONS, and a real champion will never be discouraged, they will keep trying untill they get there. Ben Hogans swing didn't come from out the ground, he BUILT it....he worked his ass off day after day....practiced probably till his fingers bled i'm sure......something 99% of the population will never ever do, at best they could trudge along then maybe have a bunch of answers 50 years later......or maybe not because I really havent seen much from you besides "what works for the instructorphobic" and even Mr. Dean who's got many many moon on him especially compared to my spring chicken butt, would like to know more seems like and wishes he could undo not having access to such so many years ago.

& if not for a schedule issue he may have been the only man to Win the Modern Day Grand Slam in a single year of 1953 & that was after a life threatening head on collision with a bus in which his unselfish effort to save his Wife probably saved his own life. filler writing,nothing to do with the price of tea in china....nothing against the great Mr. Hogan.

All Best Wishes for ALL.
Click to expand...


So Dean comes out honest and says he's been playing all his life (which is a long time lol) and doesn't think he's very good, and wish he knew more.

He mentioned he got a little teachings from some one pocket masters in regards to game theory (almost a must unless your just playing them instead lol) but also wish he grasped more.....

no instructors back then, most top players didn't really divulge secrets.....by the time any such opportunity to learn from a professional teacher of the game/s.....he felt like it was too late.

Admits he wished he had studied with a teacher and learned to practice properly........

you never fail to amaze me rick....smh

-Greyghost
 
greyghost said:

So Dean comes out honest and says he's been playing all his life (which is a long time lol) and doesn't think he's very good, and wish he knew more.

He mentioned he got a little teachings from some one pocket masters in regards to game theory (almost a must unless your just playing them instead lol) but also wish he grasped more.....

no instructors back then, most top players didn't really divulge secrets.....by the time any such opportunity to learn from a professional teacher of the game/s.....he felt like it was too late.

Admits he wished he had studied with a teacher and learned to practice properly........

you never fail to amaze me rick....smh

-Greyghost
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Just like your cohorts, you make totally misleading posts full of twists & distortions of the facts of matters with implications & discombobulated none connected dribble.

I gave the thumb up to Bavafongul & NOT to what Dean was saying.

Exactly how young are you & have you received any head injuries while out on the oil rigs?

All Best Wishes for ALL.

PS Digging it out of the ground refers to Mr. Hogan's relentless search for what would become HIS swing. HE is the very one that initially made the comment about himself & how he learned to swing & move the golf ball.
 
deanoc said:
with lots of memories,but when i read these threads about aiming
tempo and many other ideas,i realize i know nothing about a game
i have been playing all my life

Makes me feel strange to be not only a poor player
but not even knowledgeable

as a kid there were no instructors,and the group of players that i met were seldom interested in giving advice,by the time i reached a certain plateau I mistakenly
made the assumption that instruction wouldn't help

not that i lacked opportunities,i spent time with Jersey Red,Eddie Taylor and others,they showed me a few shots,Billy Incardone explained theories about strategy in one pocket but I never really got the basics,in fact I am not sure what the basics are

Looking back,I wish I had studied under a teacher,and learned to practice properly
Click to expand...

I would much rather have all of your pool wisdom and pool experience. I think you can learn everything you need to be great just the way you did, in instructor only helps to speed the process up. You cannot buy all of the experience someone like yourself has for any price.:)
 
ENGLISH! said:
Just like your cohorts, you make totally misleading posts full of twists & distortions of the facts of matters with implications & discombobulated none connected dribble.

I gave the thumb up to Bavafongul & NOT to what Dean was saying.

Exactly how young are you & have you received any head injuries while out on the oil rigs?

All Best Wishes for ALL.

PS Digging it out of the ground refers to Mr. Hogan's relentless search for what would become HIS swing. HE is the very one that initially made the comment about himself & how he learned to swing & move the golf ball.
Click to expand...

so you highlight a part that is correct? lol.....so the thumbs up was actually good then, wow!.... But then you went full retard and got back on the instructor bash game.....all my comments still are perfectly valid. Even more so by the questions/rethoriical statements that bavafongul made about what did those golden players do.......to which i answered that in my comments about Ben Hogan and his swing and such.

But like I said Rick.....no ones working like Ben Hogan, or Rags, or Squirrel, or Taylor, Mosconi etc.......some CHAMPION SOON TO BE IS.......but beyond that.....EXTREMELY RARE.

Just the same that some get lessons, never work on it, never practice....never get better......some I've known have even BOUGHT their own tables for a home...OH I"M GONNA GET SO MUCH BETTER.....years later....same exact donkey they were when they thought it was just a pill that happens with osmosis or something.
 
I want to be in the company of all those other guys.

One day, I hope to meet and play Deanoc some one pocket and give him a spot that he just can't lose at, yet I out-run the nuts. Yep, that's on my bucket list.:D

Legend..............

JoeyA
 
fastone371 said:
I would much rather have all of your pool wisdom and pool experience. I think you can learn everything you need to be great just the way you did, in instructor only helps to speed the process up. You cannot buy all of the experience someone like yourself has for any price.:)
Click to expand...

OTOH, I think being around a champion player/gambler is the best way to learn. I've had bca instructors try to tell me and other people complete nonsense, and even after showing them they are wrong they still insist they are right.
I would rather learn from someobe who "can" as opposed to someone who "teaches"
Jason

Btw, I was not taking a lesson from this person
 
jasonlaus said:
OTOH, I think being around a champion player/gambler is the best way to learn. I've had bca instructors try to tell me and other people complete nonsense, and even after showing them they are wrong they still insist they are right.
I would rather learn from someobe who "can" as opposed to someone who "teaches"
Jason

Btw, I was not taking a lesson from this person
Click to expand...

what happened? i'm not saying your not telling the truth or insuinating it like some people do here....been here a long time most know i'm pretty straight forward. So i'm interested in what was said or whatever? shouldn't be a secret. Because at least with most of the instructors that I know and affiliate and such none has any bad info, i'm not saying it all applies across the board for everyone flat out, but its all good stuff, wether it applicable or should be applied to each individual is a diff story altogether.

of old az horse of the year is proponent of some of that. Born with spina bifida. I think h just turned 38? he's gotten a couple lessons from me and danny smith i think he seen him about ah maybe 4 years ago. and worked some kinks out here and there, some things like in his stance he cant necessarly do like anyone would say off the bat.....but thats real life.

He won state couple years ago i think, so he's no slouch. Kid can play. He was already a good player for most part, but just lackedthat extra consistency.....
 
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