Playing Safe

SpiderWebComm

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member

CueTable Help



This came up in a game last night and I wanted to ask everyone how they'd play a safety here. I'm not sure of the exact layout, but it's something like this.

I have a certain "go-to" safety here and someone said...."No, no... you should do _____." So, I thought it'd be interesting to hear what everyone else would do--- and then I'll say what the other suggested move was and that'll likely open up a healthy discussion.

Thanks,
Dave
 
OK, I'll take a stab at it. Assuming the 6 is frozen to the 13 I'm going to hit slightly to the right side of the 6 with a touch of high right english and send the 13 to the rail, sticking the cue ball to the 6. The only thing to worry about is making sure there is no shot on the 1 ball for your opponent. The benefit is that you'll loosen up more balls and create another problem (the 13) or threat as Stu says. In fact it might be possible to get the 13 off the rail and out so that it is makeable in the side pocket (probably need a fast table for that though). Your opponent will only have shots toward the corner pockets and it won't be easy for him to leave you without a shot unless he does something with an intentional foul.

Otherwise, the 9 and 4 are a little loose so might not be good options for shooting into. You could clip the 1 and go to the middle of the foot rail, but you could be in trouble if you go too far and get straight on the 5. Same if you shoot too softly and give a shot on the 10. With the 6 ball option above, you won't risk anything like that AND you'll be creating more problems for your opponent.
 
Dan White said:
OK, I'll take a stab at it. Assuming the 6 is frozen to the 13 I'm going to hit slightly to the right side of the 6 with a touch of high right english and send the 13 to the rail, sticking the cue ball to the 6. The only thing to worry about is making sure there is no shot on the 1 ball for your opponent. The benefit is that you'll loosen up more balls and create another problem (the 13) or threat as Stu says. In fact it might be possible to get the 13 off the rail and out so that it is makeable in the side pocket (probably need a fast table for that though). Your opponent will only have shots toward the corner pockets and it won't be easy for him to leave you without a shot unless he does something with an intentional foul.

Otherwise, the 9 and 4 are a little loose so might not be good options for shooting into. You could clip the 1 and go to the middle of the foot rail, but you could be in trouble if you go too far and get straight on the 5. Same if you shoot too softly and give a shot on the 10. With the 6 ball option above, you won't risk anything like that AND you'll be creating more problems for your opponent.
Click to expand...

I was a little lazy with cuetable-- I tried to setup the bottom row a little curved to prevent your move because I know that option wasn't available last night. Pretend you couldn't stick to the 6 as you described. I should have been a little clearer in my post and better with my diagram.

Dave
 
SpiderWebComm said:

CueTable Help



This came up in a game last night and I wanted to ask everyone how they'd play a safety here. I'm not sure of the exact layout, but it's something like this.

I have a certain "go-to" safety here and someone said...."No, no... you should do _____." So, I thought it'd be interesting to hear what everyone else would do--- and then I'll say what the other suggested move was and that'll likely open up a healthy discussion.

Thanks,
Dave
Click to expand...

I see nothing real tricky. The only thing I see is hit the 5 and draw back against the 11 or near the 11-4.


If you hit into the 6-13, the 6 might drift out and you may leave the bank on the 1 , anyway.

School me!
 
Dave:

Depending on the angle here, I think you have a classic One Pocket safe that applies here, in 14.1.

Here's how: bank the 5-ball towards the "upper" side pocket, using low-left english. Aim at the 5-ball full in the face, and hit the shot hard enough to send the 5-ball towards the "upper" side pocket (see if you can pin it against the "upper" long rail), and gently draw the cue ball onto the 11-ball. The low-left english on the cue ball will "stiffen" (read: reduce the bank angle of) the 5-ball so it doesn't go further up-table, and at the same time, send the cue ball towards the pack. If you've played One Pocket before, you'll know this shot -- it's a classic. And when it's executed correctly, you'll pin your opponent to the side of the pile, with no view of the 5-ball. Obviously, the opponent may now elect to start the intentional foul process, and you'll have to deal with that.

This is a "touch" shot to get right, and if you (not you personally, Dave, but the royal "you" to the readership) have not played One Pocket before and are not familiar with these types of "pin him to the pack" safeties, you'll want to practice these. But once you get the feel of these, they come in really handy!

Thoughts?
-Sean

P.S.: EDIT -- I just noticed Dennis posted the same shot. Sorry about that!
 
Last edited:
sfleinen said:
P.S.: EDIT -- I just noticed Dennis posted the same shot. Sorry about that!
Click to expand...

Sean- Sort of the same shot, but yours sounds like it would have been executed with a bit more precision than my haphazard offering. For example, you had an idea exactly where you want the object ball to go and exactly where you want to pin the cue ball and hearing this explained is an education to me.

If we got the right shot, that is. :cool:
 
bump

Spidey: So, tell us what you did or should have done.

Steve Kur, Mike Grosso, and other straight pool enthusiasts:

What would you do and why!?
 
dmgwalsh said:
Sean- Sort of the same shot, but yours sounds like it would have been executed with a bit more precision than my haphazard offering. For example, you had an idea exactly where you want the object ball to go and exactly where you want to pin the cue ball and hearing this explained is an education to me.

If we got the right shot, that is. :cool:
Click to expand...

Sorry for seeing this only now, Dennis. Thanks for the good words. Although a big 14.1 fan, I'm still amazed at what playing 1-hole has done for my straight pool game. It forces you to be constantly aware of the ball paths of multiple balls -- cue ball included. And bones-up your caroms, banks, kicks, etc. in the process as well (even though, combos excluded, they may not, or rarely, be used in straight pool). Straight pool enthusiasts know (and are constantly reminded by the higher echelon players) to always look "at the pack" to look for dead balls, etc. Well, for me, playing 1-hole seem to hone-in this endeavor, to the point where shots that are normally overlooked or dismissed -- such as kicking into the pile to drive a dead ball to the pocket -- just kind of jump out at me now.

Anyway, enough of that. We are talking about safety play here, and I'm curious as to which one Dave played, as well as what others would play.

-Sean
 
For safe, play the 5 any way you can to leave it in the middle of the end rail to the right.

But if you can't make the 5 in the corner more than half the time, you need to practice your long shots. If you are more than 50% on the 5, you should shoot it and get position on the break.
 
I'm always looking for tips in playing safe, so I'll put my ideas out there & see what people say.

CueTable Help

 
Last edited:
mosconiac said:
I'm always looking for tips in playing safe, so I'll put my ideas out there & see what people say.

[...WEI snip...]
Click to expand...

Thanks mosconiac! That's exactly the shot Dennis and I were describing. (I admit, we should've included a WEI diagram.) It's a classic one pocket safe, and requires a bit (just a bit) of "touch" to make sure you get the right amount of draw back into the pile. Too much, and you sell out the 1-ball (for a bank or a cut); too little, and you sell-out the 5-ball.

Also, as Bob mentioned, that 5-ball is *very* "cut-able" into the bottom-right corner pocket, and is a shot many players should be familiar / practiced with.

-Sean
 
All of the suggestions are good. I've always tried to put myself into a position where I can have the best chance of winning the safety battle in the end--- not just shooting a 100% guaranteed shot where the incoming player has no shot (that might give him a gimme shot to put me in a bad spot).

I like to take the risk, say 75-80% success rate, to get frozen to the bottom rail (below the rack) right out of the gate by shooting the 5 up table and locking (or very close to) the CB to the center diamond under the rack.

The opponent is then forced to tick the 1, and repeat the position; however, he/she has the chance of scratching, rolling too far or not far enough. The 5, many times, gets bumped into a position that can be made with an over-shot roll off the 1... setting up the possible break on the remaining ball.

Although bumping the 5 up table and drawing into the rack isn't bad as it saves the day for the time being, I think bad stuff can happen two moves later. Your opponents next shot will undoubtedly be the gimme-tick to freeze the CB to the end rail (where I would want to be to begin with) and that forces you to tick the 1 to repeat the position. Now, the order is switched up--- maybe you roll too far, not far enough, etc.

Also, by drawing into the rack, if you don't suck it into the hole -- you can sell out on the 5 often with an easy shot into either corner-- depending on how it's hit. Or, by barely drawing it back too far (barely below the rack), you setup a bank shot that even a non-banker would try because it's as easy a bank as banks come and it provides a natural setup for the break shot.

NOT SAYING ANY OF THIS IS RIGHT/GOSPEL--- Just letting you know how I think.

The opponent I mentioned earlier liked to shoot the 1 and spin two rails into the BASE of the rack-- leaving both open balls available as possible shots to open the rack or leave the possibility open that he'd have those available. This, of course, could lead to problems later. My move is always ticking the CB back to the position I mentioned earlier and now the opponent is forced to tick the corner of the rack and repeat the position which could sell out on either loose ball or create an unwanted loose ball which is doom.

As I mentioned--- this is all philosophy and the tightness of the table plays a strong part in how you play safeties. On a tighter table, I'd let Bob shoot that 5 to the bottom right corner for $20 / shot just to see what happens. Might bust me, maybe not - but it'd be fun to watch (I mean this totally in jest).

So this leads to my discussion point-------->

For safeties--- in similar scenarios--- do you strive to create distance to the rack and kiss the rail (lower %, say 75-80%) or do you strive to take the 100%er and just lock the CB to the rack immediately??

I'm asking because I really don't know the RIGHT answer--- I just know that I always strive to kiss that bottom rail and be in a better position than my opponent in round 2. If there's an open ball up table and you're kissing that bottom rail--- have at it. Most non-pros miss that shot on a 4.5" pocketed table than make from that position.

What does everyone else think? Please understand, I'm NOT knocking how anyone plays safeties here and there are no right answers without knowing the exact equipment, your opponent, etc. I think it's philosophical based on your aggression level.

Dave
 
Last edited:
SpiderWebComm said:
I like to take the risk, say 75-80% success rate, to get frozen to the bottom rail (below the rack) right out of the gate by shooting the 5 up table and locking (or very close to) the CB to the center diamond under the rack.
Click to expand...

I was going to post this, but you beat me to it. I would rather put the cue ball near the foot rail by cutting the 5 uptable and spinning the cue ball to that rail for the same reasoning you use. Maybe right, maybe wrong, I dunno.
 
There's never a guarantee that a safety will come out perfect anyway. In this position, I'd bank the 1 and play for a break shot on the 5 or even the 10. The 1 is a very high percentage make shot IMO.

If I had to play safe, I'd consider thinning the left side of the 1 with a lot of left english, slow rolling the CB to double the pocket and nest itself behind the balls.

I think either of those shots is much easier than trying to draw off the 5 and freeze to the rack.
 
This one's pretty natural, but I'm not so sure it limits my opponent's options as much as the 5B safe posted earlier. If I hit it poorly, page 2 results.

CueTable Help

 
Last edited:
You have a point, but I guess I just keep looking at how easy that 1 ball bank is and worry that if I play a draw off the 5 and the CB should roll off the rack and leave the 1 for my opponent, I'd be kicking myself for not shooting it in the first place. :)

The safety off the 1 looks like the speed lies well to double up the 1 and 10. But .... honestly, I don't think I'd consider a safety for long anyway, I'd still bank the one. I like the shot. :)
 
Mosconiac--

That's a great example above and purpose for my original post. You would choose to tick the 10 and come into the stack (as do many) and I would prefer to tick it and try to kiss the CB to the center of the short rail underneath the rack.

I wonder if Schmidt, Harriman or Lipsky would chime in and provide insight because I really wanna know.

Dave
 
As others have said I would bank the 5 but probably with a stop shot as I don't want to open up the rack by drawing back into it.

CueTable Help

 
dmgwalsh said:
I see nothing real tricky. The only thing I see is hit the 5 and draw back against the 11 or near the 11-4.


If you hit into the 6-13, the 6 might drift out and you may leave the bank on the 1 , anyway.

School me!
Click to expand...

I'm with dennis here on this shot !!!

i would also like to be schooled

-Steve
 
SpiderWebComm said:
...I would prefer to tick it and try to kiss the CB to the center of the short rail underneath the rack...
Click to expand...
Dave: I think you are correct. Placing the CB on the rail handcuffs the incoming player with respect to hiding "under" the rack again. I've been using more of that lately (I also remember someone saying "the first one to get the CB up table, wins").

I think players start out thinking it's better to freeze them on the stack because it's a larger position zone when you have balls up table that you need to hide from. A lesser player would be far more likely (and more confortable with) landing between A&B as shown below.

CueTable Help

 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top