Please explain why kamui chalk is a "scam"

[Blue Hog ridr]

Good point Bro. The cure becomes the problem.
If the new toned down version doesn't work as well as the old, then what is the difference between it and BD, Magic or Pre Flag?

I found that it does mark the cue ball significantly. To me, that chalk on the cue ball means it isn't on the tip of my cue for a start.

We are playing on 4 newly covered bar tables in the bar. I can't say that I have noticed any chalk marks on the new cloth tho.

Tip has glazed over twice in a little over a month. Very visible. No previous problem using Pre Flag.

I doubt I am playing any better now than before I started using Kamui. I am still missing easy shots that were pretty much a given.

25 bucks doesn't mean much to me either. Its just the principal of paying it if I can't see any appreciable advantage. And so far I don't

Most people know that I don't care for the USA Kamui distributor much.
Thats an understatement. But that is not why I bought a piece.

I spent enuff time bashing it based on price before I did try it. I bought a piece and if I felt that it did deserve a glowing review regadrless of how I feel about Bertone, I would have given one.

I do like the way it goes on. I know that I can go many shots without chalking. I was able to get over the chalking every shot very quickly.

One of the reasons (main one) that I started chalking with Kamui every shot is to see how long it will last over a regular piece. Right now I feel maybe about the same time frame maybe a tad longer but probably not by much. Not $30 more.

Maybe I will try using it as a base coat as others are doing. Personally, I don't see an advantage to that other than making the Kamui last much longer. Which it will.

Its almost like using BD as a base and Pre Flag over that.

It might make the second coat of chalk stick longer but you are essentially playing with whatever chalk you use as a secondary coat.

Maybe I will see a huge difference when I go back to Pre Flag or BD and in that case, I will buy more Kamui. I somehow doubt it but if it happens, thats what I will do.

I do play a fair game of pool and think after 25 odd years of playing that I should be able to be a fair judge of my games and other shooting enhancements. I am a pretty decent repairman. I can tell the difference between a good playing cue and a great one. Maybe thats just subjective. But in saying that, I also feel that I should be able to judge my game based on two different chalks being used.


One thing that I can mention is that I don't feel the need to go so far out on the cue ball that I am running the risk of miscueing.
I seldom miscue and thats the truth. I have noticed that recently, I have miscued more with Kamui than any other chalk.
Maybe thats just a stupid coincidence, so not a fair judgment on the chalk.

I get all the English I need by going a tip out from center. And thats extreme for me. Usually much less.

I will reserve my end judgment for when I go back to regular chalk when the Kamui is done.

 

[scsuxci]

Question is.. Would people think it's that special if it was priced the same as Masters? I have a strong feeling, most people that have bought it automatically think it's god's gift to chalk because it was expensive.

If it's so amazing why doesn't every pro use it. If it improves your game so drastically you'd think everyone would use it.

Why do pros use different cues,tips,break cues and so on.You would think if Strickland and Fisher used Cuetec cues to win so many titles,why wouldn't everybody?
It all comes down to styles,eyesight,if the player
is a spin player or a potter,banger,or finesse player.
We really don't know what pros use it and what pros don't but if a
player is happy with his game without it doesn't mean it doesn't work,
it just means he or she has found what works for them.
I'm a Huge Predator fan and 1000% believer there product works
and so do thousands of others but there's still people that think its
a crock and won't use them.That still doesn't mean the product doesn't
work,it just means it doesn't work for everybody.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Master Green is nowhere near as good as Master Blue! :groucho:

The only difference is my GREEN is Desert HEAT TREATED in my BACK YEARS 90 DAYS at 110 DEGREES PLUS HEAT.

 

[schmizz]

Why do pros use different cues,tips,break cues and so on.You would think if Strickland and Fisher used Cuetec cues to win so many titles,why wouldn't everybody?
It all comes down to styles,eyesight,if the player
is a spin player or a potter,banger,or finesse player.
We really don't know what pros use it and what pros don't but if a
player is happy with his game without it doesn't mean it doesn't work,
it just means he or she has found what works for them.
I'm a Huge Predator fan and 1000% believer there product works
and so do thousands of others but there's still people that think its
a crock and won't use them.That still doesn't mean the product doesn't
work,it just means it doesn't work for everybody.

MOST Pros use what they are paid to use. It's called Touch of the
Masters Hand. They can take a piece of S cue and make it shoot like the
best cue in the world, because they are that good. It doesn't mean it's
great gear or their personal preferred gear.

 

[DavidMNienow]

The reason Master Blue is the best in comparison to the other colors of Master's chalk is the fact that the Blue outsells all the other colors. The other colors sit on a shelf waiting for someone to buy the color. As a result the other colors dry out and the Blue is more fresh. The color I hated the most when I sold the stuff was Masters Pink. I dont think its available anymore (Thank God) but we had some of the stuff in the store I worked and it hung around FOREVER!!!

 

[RunoutJJ]

Cleary, with all due respect, that diagram is bogus. THAT is definitely nothing more than a marketing ploy. Where your tip ends up after your stroke is totally dependent on your stroke, not what type of chalk you use. If you don't end up straight, you have a flaw in your stroke, period.

Sure isnt... I hate to say it Neil but it does just that. I use to bash Kamui and couldn't believe that it was that much better but I hate to say it.. It really does make that much of a difference. Maybe not to the C to Low Level B but to the higher ranked players there is a MAJOR difference in throw and grip with english. When I used it I had to adjust to make certain shots with throw. Banks where even worse!! A lot of banks I hit where coming up short due to the GRIP I was having on the cueball.

Say whatca want but like the ol saying goes... "Don't knock it till you try it..." or I told you so. Some pride driven folks will stick to their guns and be in denial about it but what can you do. Its hard to swallow your pride sometimes...

Do I agree on the price of Kamui chalk?? Hell no!!!! After trying it out (and liking it) I will be getting a cube to use only in tournaments and gambling sessions. That way it will truly be money well spent

 

[Neil]

............

 

[cubc]

..the stuff was Masters Pink. I dont think its available anymore..

Masters Pink is waaaay better than kamui. I still have some left I'll sell for $600 a cube. It's worth it. I can use a level cue with full force right english and it grabs so well the cue ball will just do laps in the middle of the table without touching a rail until it starts to slow down.

 

[RunoutJJ]

Well, I guess we will have to agree to disagree until someone does a robotic test.

Or better yet you should try it out for yourself :lol:


I know you play pretty sporty so you will be able to tell..

 

[JB Cases]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekGhSBJGmSU

15 shots with Masters and 15 shots with Kamui. With the Kamui the results were better. BUT I was able to spin the ball with maximum right spin with both brands for 15 shots without a miscue and with only one time chalking.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

I use to bash Kamui and couldn't believe that it was that much better but I hate to say it.. It really does make that much of a difference. Maybe not to the C to Low Level B but to the higher ranked players there is a MAJOR difference in throw and grip with english. When I used it I had to adjust to make certain shots with throw. Banks where even worse!! A lot of banks I hit where coming up short due to the GRIP I was having on the cueball.

Actually, this is the exact opposite of what i've seen in the pool rooms.
I've seen high end players use it, and to them, it's just another piece of chalk that costs a lot. No difference in their game at all.

It's the B and C players that are the ones who come up with the claims of it doing this or that.

Guess it depends on which person you talk to. :smile:

 

[RunoutJJ]

Actually, this is the exact opposite of what i've seen in the pool rooms.
I've seen high end players use it, and to them, it's just another piece of chalk that costs a lot. No difference in their game at all.

It's the B and C players that are the ones who come up with the claims of it doing this or that.

Guess it depends on which person you talk to. :smile:

Well everybody has a different touch I guess because like I said I had to re-adjust on certain shot Ive hit a thousand times before. Not to mention the action on got on the cue ball with very little effort..

Com se com sa....

 

[Poolplaya9]

Exactly what I think about! Especially #1 is a very essential statement based on fundamental physical knowledge.

But in the moment I do not agree about #4 and #5. It seems to me that the Kamui chalk 0.98 that I tested several months ago grabs the ball with more security. The differences may be as more as ones stroke is worse. So my experince with those guys of our pool club who are playing on a pretty low technical skill level and usually do pretty often miscue with usual chalk. But here I'm not a 100% sure, it only seems to be very plausible to me. Maybe also an explantion that they are not yet able to chalk reliably enough with a usual chalk.

;-)

I think we may agree even on #'s 4 and 5. To put what I said in #'s 4 and 5 in other words, what I was saying was that it was possible that Kamui does in fact have a little more grab/increased friction, but if it does it is only enough to help with very poorly stroked shots, or with a tip that hasn't been properly maintained. The extra friction, if it exists, is not enough to let someone with a good stroke hit any further out on the edge of the cue ball than they could with masters, and it does not decrease "slippage" that never existed to begin with.

I also agree with you that Kamui may be a better chalk for less experienced players because if it does actually grip a bit better it may save some miscues on poorly stroked shots, and also because it does seem to "coat better" for some people so it may give better tip coverage for someone that doesn't yet know how to properly chalk their tip.

 

[Medalist]

I played 4 hours tonight and chalked about 6 times (just for the hell of it). I could have gone longer without chalking. Using the old school chalk is just so messy. I'm hooked. If I dont lose it its not that expensive. Should last a long time, especially since everyone else is so afraid of it I dont have to share. I keep it in my pocket or my bag only. You have to remember to blow off the excess after you chalk. That prevents the blue skid on the table.

 

[Celtic]

I used to talk bad about it. Didn't necessarily think it was a scam, just thought that it was overpriced and not worth the money.

That is pretty much all I have ever seen people say about the chalk.

A scam implies dishonest marketing and claiming the chalk does something it does not. I have not seen Kamui doing anything like that nor have I seen anyone accuse them of doing so, if anyone has they are in a small minority.

People may claim it is a "rip off" due to the price, and I have seen alot of people say that, but that is a very different accusation then calling something a "scam".

 

[Lumocolor]

Should add masters flag and pre-flag to the test, after all there are plenty of people who'll pay 20 times more for pre-flag and that's never been proven to be different either.

 

[Joshua70]

When I got my 0.98, I had to learn most of the aiming points new. Many players are afraid of this, because they might loose their game for a little while.

With some shots you have less deflection, with some more. Throw also changes.

After alle I aquired it, because I was curious, how fast I could change my preshot- routine (chalking while thinking over the next step).
After I learned to leave the chalk at the seat, I had no items with the old habit after a very short time (two or three racks).

Is it a scam? Difficult to say.
Is it overpriced? I would say yes- but this is Kamui. Don´t they overprice everything?
Would I buy it again- even for that price? Definitely yes.

 

[Hidy Ho]

Non-scientific rambling ...

In Bangkok, I switched back to whatever chalk they use at the pool hall (Masters I think) as I was too lazy to search for Kamui chalk in the pouch. Then in one session, I had a crucial miscue that I immediately blamed on the chalk (it's never me). I scraped the tip clean, found my Kamui chalk and went back to it.

I swear the feedback I get is different. It just seems to grab the rock better. I like the fact that I'm more aware of looking at the tip, chalking like I'm a snooker player and applying the chalk when and where it's needed.

I have in piece in Singapore that someone gave mee about a year ago. This was my main chalk last year. It's getting more close toward end of it's life but served me well for a year. I proably play 20 to 40 hrs per month on the chalk. I'm just amazed that I didn't lose the thing in a year .. that's my proud accomplishment.

The chalk does seem to leave more mark on the whitey .. haven't noticed increased skidding due to this but I do wipe off the whitey quite a bit more.

The cost discussion seems to be similar to single layer vs. multi-layered tips and comparing $0.25 single layer tip vs. $20 multi-layer tip. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[Pangit]

It's great marketing as has been pointed out. It's not exclusive to pool. Put a fancy unique label on something, charge an obnoxious price for it...15-20 percent of the population will buy it. "It must be the best thing since sliced bread". "Look at how much it cost's."???? A fool and his money are soon parted. And then said buyers will make every excuse in the book to "justify" it amongst their friends...You buy it too, then I won't have to support it alone.

Horse Sense!!!

I thought Snake Oil Salesmen were a thing of the past?

 

[scsuxci]

2 Issues

I'm thinking that the main downfall is the price not the performance.
If the Chalk price wasn't an issue,most would agree the product works.
Now if the chalk didn't work at all,I would say its a scam but an over-
priced item doesn't mean its a scam if it works.I think Kamui believes
in this product and has put it so far out of the "normal price range"to
tell people,this product is the best and if you want it your going to
have to pay for it.As far as marking up the cueball,Blue Diamond marks
up my cue-ball bad as well,really bad.Both of these chalks are super abrasive and would explain why they both work well.