Possible cheating AzB'er at Denver Open last night?

I'm starting to get the idea maybe. Bill thought Tommy made a bad hit in the first rack...................Tommy plays the "no ref, call goes to shooter" card, so then bill plays the same card right back with the beads?
Two wongs don't make a white?
dave
 
Tokyo-dave said:
I'm starting to get the idea maybe. Bill thought Tommy made a bad hit in the first rack...................Tommy plays the "no ref, call goes to shooter" card, so then bill plays the same card right back with the beads?
Two wongs don't make a white?
dave
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Dave,

First of all, it was very nice meeting you yesterday. But I think you are mistaken accusing Tommy of playing the "no ref" card.

There was a difference of opinion and they did get the tournament director for that call and HE made the decision that there was nothing he could do because he didn't see it, not Tommy. However, I'm guessing that Bill thought he was right. But this kind of thing happend all the time, at that point I don't think either was trying to cheat, they believed what they believed.

Again, I did not see that questionable hit, but I did see Will involved in the discussion. I will not be commenting on this anymore, I do not like bumping negative threads, I just wanted to let you know the details as I knew them.

Dave
 
Even though I know both these guys (Bill for a long time). there is nothing I can really add to this thread. Sometimes funny things happen in the heat of battle. Some a lot worse than this! That's about all I can say. Ultimately you must learn to protect yourself in the course of a game.

I've had players try to cheat me and beat me a million different ways, usually in money games. Sometimes I argued and sometimes I just let it go, knowing I would eventually win anyway. In a tournament match, you better damn sure know the game score and the ball count at all times. Period! If not, that's your fault.
 
We often play partners with money on the 5 ball and on the 10 ball. I can't recall how many times someone would get to racking and ask "who made the 5 ball?". In many cases, we'd just say "fuhgetaboutit, no one gets credit for it."

Let Bill get his day in court before the guillotine is sharpened and put in place. I'm confident the picture will change hue. I sure hope so anyway!
 
Not that it matters now but, It is my understanding the second camera for the stream shows the foot rail of the table this match went down on. If so inclined someone could check the video and see how many racks were broken after the lag. Ultimately it was up to the opponent to stop the match and get the TD right away. I was there and heard everyone talking about it but I did not see the match myself so I cannot offer my opinion on what happened.
 
jrhendy said:
I agree with you Frank. It has been years, but as you know whenever he came up from Long Beach it was to try and get you or me down. Like you, I have played Bill many times without a problem.

I believe he was trying to make a point about getting away with calls when there was not a referee present.

I would like to hear his side.
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i am with you John I would like to hear Bill's side of this. I have known Bill for better than 25 years and he will do what he can to win and is going to play very hard. He is a good player who has been around for a long long time and knows every rule there is. A cheater though?? I hardly doubt it! He may have made a mistake, there is a big difference. Who hasn't?
I would like to here his side but he may not dignify his stance here.
I would not blame him!!
 
10-Ball Match Controversy

Chris Byrne said:
Not that it matters now but, It is my understanding the second camera for the stream shows the foot rail of the table this match went down on. If so inclined someone could check the video and see how many racks were broken after the lag. Ultimately it was up to the opponent to stop the match and get the TD right away. I was there and heard everyone talking about it but I did not see the match myself so I cannot offer my opinion on what happened.
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I wasn't too far from you Chris and saw the entire situation unfold.

What happened?
 
no guillotine sharpening here.

I just find it a little odd that Bill has been on here 3 or 4 times so far today, with this thread on the front page and he hasn't responded.

He did, however, post this afternoon on the "Old 9-ball players vs the New" thread.

Could this be the proverbial elephant in the living room, being ignored?

It would be nice to hear his side.

Best,
Brian kc
 
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dabarbr said:
I've gambled with Bill many times and never did I get the impression from him to be anything but an honest gentleman. We need to wait to hear from Bill to get his side of the story. Something in this story is not right.
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Besides anyone wanting to confront him better di it from about 6 feet away, he has one hell of a reach.LOL!
 
JB Cases said:
On one of Lenny's streams Mark Griffen was playing someone in Arizona a RACE to 2 in one pocket and Mark wins the first game and the other player wins the second game and the other player then thinks he won the match - AND MARK AGREES!!!!!
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This very thing happened in a match I was watching. It was a race to 2 and Player A wins the first game, then Player B wins the second game and says he's won the match! Player A doesn't remember if it's the second or third game and they argue for a while. Player B is totally convinced they've played 3 games and he's won 2 of them!

Finally, the figure it out based on who won the flip (it was alternate breaks). It's amazing how you convince yourself of something that never happened.

I'm sure we've all done that sort of thing before though.
 
All the people who said lets wait and see what a nice honest guy like Bill has to say for himself are still waiting. Think about it, a Dippy denial like the cat pissed all over my homework doesn't work very well. Might as well just tell the truth, I thought I got cheated so I cheated back acha. Too bad cheating with a grey area bad hit isn't as nasty as cheating with manipulating the score.
 
Samiel said:
This very thing happened in a match I was watching. It was a race to 2 and Player A wins the first game, then Player B wins the second game and says he's won the match! Player A doesn't remember if it's the second or third game and they argue for a while. Player B is totally convinced they've played 3 games and he's won 2 of them!

Finally, the figure it out based on who won the flip (it was alternate breaks). It's amazing how you convince yourself of something that never happened.

I'm sure we've all done that sort of thing before though.
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I think it happens when we 'count' a game in our head that we were sure we were going to win but then lose it.
 
Don't remember the score, was early in the set. TK was shooting the two in the corner gearing it in (because the 8 was letting him only see the face of the 2 ball yet, very makeable shot, he was somewhat elevated in his bridge due to an interfering ball. The object ball being shot at was more than a ball below the interfering 8 ball maybe 2 balls -. During his shot he grazed the 8 going in but still made the 2 ball, I called a foul. He said he didn't and matters escalated, why, because TK wouldn't admit the 2 ball was past the 8,he didn't want to talk about the shot at all! I asked him way more than once about where the two ball was in relation to the 8, he would not respond to my question. I got hot and I affected Tony's Piazzas game next to me which I apologized, TK played the no ref around card/move continually and would not agree that the 2 ball was well below the 8. As far as the score was at the time I wasn't sure, TK could of been right, but, because the beads were as they were, and I just got played by someone that wouldn't even talk about it, I held my cards, never intentionally marked an extra game up and wouldn't talk to him about this situation because he was Unwilling to talk about clipping the eight and where the 2 actually was in relation to the 8.
Would of posted earlier, must of had tunnel vision, didn't see the thread. Ray/Big Truck wanted to focus on the match, not the controversy, he's got advertisers/ect countin' on him....End of discussion.
 
Island Drive said:
Don't remember the score, was early in the set. TK was shooting the two in the corner gearing it in (because the 8 was letting him only see the face of the 2 ball yet, very makeable shot, he was somewhat elevated in his bridge due to an interfering ball. The object ball being shot at was more than a ball below the interfering 8 ball maybe 2 balls -. During his shot he grazed the 8 going in but still made the 2 ball, I called a foul. He said he didn't and matters escalated, why, because TK wouldn't admit the 2 ball was past the 8,he didn't want to talk about the shot at all! I asked him way more than once about where the two ball was in relation to the 8, he would not respond to my question. I got hot and I affected Tony's Piazzas game next to me which I apologized, TK played the no ref around card/move continually and would not agree that the 2 ball was well below the 8. As far as the score was at the time I wasn't sure, TK could of been right, but, because the beads were as they were, and I just got played by someone that wouldn't even talk about it, I held my cards, never intentionally marked an extra game up and wouldn't talk to him about this situation because he was Unwilling to talk about clipping the eight and where the 2 actually was in relation to the 8.
Would of posted earlier, must of had tunnel vision, didn't see the thread. Ray/Big Truck wanted to focus on the match, not the controversy, he's got advertisers/ect countin' on him....End of discussion.
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Dang that was hard to take in without spaces. :confused:

I see that you say you didn't intentionally mark an extra game but the rail says they saw you mark an extra one and you were made aware of it but chose not to correct it.

Just want to make sure I understand: You were pissed over Tommy T. saying 'good hit' when you thought otherwise, to the extent your behavior interfered with the Piazza match on the adjascent table. Then there 'coincidentally' was a scoring bead problem to your advantage that when you were called on it, you essentially ignored it?

You're asking a lot for us to believe that after you were extremely pissed off over a hit, that there was a completely unintended f--kup with the scoring beads that, by the way, the rail saw you do.

Also, not sure what you meant by "I held my cards".

Best,
Brian kc
 
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I was there but oblivious to anyone's problems...

ShootingArts said:
Maybe not but three lefts make a right. :D

Hu
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True, but usually 1 block away from where the "right" would have been :o


Also, for Brian KC; it seems Bill used the "card" reference here for Tommy:


"TK played the no ref around card/move continually"


Even though his punctuation is atrocious, I think he tied that usage of the "card" term with his own "holding" of cards.
 
When I used to work at a golf course and played golf every day....We had a "cheaters club"..........anytime we found out that someone cheated...they were deemed members of the cheater club......from then on we referenced them as...... "(name) The Cheater"....

Funny thing is..I was playing with the guy that started this whole club thing....he could not tolerate cheaters.......well we were playing in a skins game (about 30 people) and I was riding in the same cart as him...we were playing with his dad..."pops" and some other gentleman....Well we were sitting in our cart off to the side of the fairway waiting for "pops" to hit...(we were both a bit longer than pops off the tee).....

Well right as pops was getting ready to adress is ball with his hybrid club....he gently nudged it a couple times to bump up his lie a bit.....I started laughing as his son looked down putting his head on his hand........I said to him....."pops the cheater"....huh....he said..."I know...I know"

Of course his son said something to him right after that shot.....and pops said that he did not even realize he was doing that....and that he had probably done it the whole round....He withdrew his score card from the skins game...(he would have had a skin)...and all ended well between son and "pops"

"pops" of course knew about the cheaters club..and I had to give him some grief over it for a couple weeks....every time I saw him at the club I would greet him with......."pops the cheater...how are you"

People do make mistakes....but they also make good on them........if they are not cheaters...I would think this applies to pool as well...
 
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