Predator Pro Pool School with Reyes, Bustamante, Hohmann, Robles May 21-22,2008

JoeyA said:
Someone, put up the $1500.00 for me. I will go and share what I learn with all on AZBilliards.

Three questions:
1. Have they made a decision about, where is there?
2. Will they be providing video tape recordings?
3. Does anyone know if Thorsten can REALLY barbecue?

JoeyA
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1.JAX, location set by monday
2. no, u can bring ur own
3. yes,toast can bbq. efren,busty,tony,toast and myself among many others will all be at the Dome,where he lives, staying there playing pool,eating, drinking, and having good time. all the students are welcome
 
this is an amazing and awesome opportunity to learn from the Greatest of all time (IMO)!

Does Reyes and Bustamente speak english well?
what will they be teaching at the school?
Thanks for any help and good luck with the school! I'm going to try to come!!
 
Scott Lee said:
David...I'm not convinced they are willing. $100/hr for a group lesson, no matter who the 'pro' is, imo is highway robbery. You should be getting one-on-one with any of these guys, for that kind of money, imo. We'll see how many people step up for this "bargain"!:rolleyes:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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Are any of these guys recognized instructors? It sounds to me like charging a fee to hang out with them. If that's what you want...

I doubt that any of them are as good a teacher as Scott Lee.

pj
chgo

And what the hell are the "secrets of Filipino pool"? Oh, right, they're secrets - never mind.
 
I'd like to make a few comments / questions regarding pool instructions generically.

Before I do, I want to say that what I'm about to say is my genuine feeling, and in no way meant to belittle, demean or in anyway downplay pool instruction, because I'm fully aware that for some percentage of beginners and those entering intermediate ability, personal instruction is a great catalyst for jump starting a deeper interest in the game, which in turn opens doors for learning.

I see the oohs, and aahs, here by posters showing interest and wished they could attend. I'm so very curious about the speed of the folks who are interested as it is my firm belief that the better you are (read B player or higher) the less you will get from this type instruction. Conversely, the closer you are to C or D ability, the less aware you may be of the many options available to learn about the game on your own.

I think that the only "UNIQUE" benefit that comes from personal instruction (unique in that you can't be taught it any other way) is that the instructor can guide you on your body mechanics specifically, and that's it. That's certainly not to say this isn't a very important thing, just not something that lends itself well to group instruction.

To wonder, or want to share what is taught, is next to useless IMO because if it is not specific to the players "form" i.e. some flaw that can be corrected, no other information could possibly be shared that hasn't already been written about, recorded on DVD, and is readily available for sale in any number of places. Not to mention the tons of available match games that allow you to watch and emulate players stance and stroke.

In fact, spending 1500 bucks on DVDs, and books would, again, IMO be a much better choice than any group lesson, since you can revisit those instruction over and over and over again. And you can resell them when you are done with them.

Being able to replay instructional DVDs, re-read books on pool,and then experiment with your new information is the way to sink it into your brain. IMO it certainly isn't going to sink in during a group lesson anywhere near as well.
 
Honestly I cannot see this being a good way to spend the cash for anyone.

If you are a weak player without strong fundamentals the instruction from these guys is going to be overkill and you would be much better spending less money from Scott Lee, or if you are really a beginner even some local level master that can explain the game and is willing to give a lesson for $25 an hour or so which many will do.

If you are a stronger player you are simply not going to get enough hands on training from each player, the lesson will be very standardized to cover broad areas of the game such that all the various students of various levels of skill are covered. Even more, if you are truly a decent player that can run a rack or two you are better off taking your $1500 and going to the cash tables in the Riv during the BCA and simply matching up for the $20 a game or playing $50 races to 5 verses some of the action there, you will get alot out of that competition and that $1500 will go a long way.

None of those guys teaching this school got good by going to pool schools, they got good by matching up and playing pool against quality players. They went to tournaments, they got into sets with good players, think about it.

If the $1500 is worth just going and hanging out with the guys then go ahead and spend the cash, but if you think that the school is going to give you a huge increase in your skills on the table over some guy who is out there matching up and playing in tournaments with his cash instead, think again.
 
Celtic, good point about play level. This school is not recommended for beginners.
Players who get the most value would be intermediate up to very advanced.

We have had an assortment of skill levels, but even the lower level players absorbed a ton of info they said they have never heard before (like Jose Parica's amazing banking system or Mika Immonen's kicking systems) which can apply to almost any level.

The instructors also spend alot of personal time with the student observing their own unique aspects of their game and helping them.

We've had pro level students such as Hsin Huang from WPBA and for this school interest from Gerda Hofstatter and Allison Fisher, who I hope will attend. Even the instructors such as Mika Immonen commented how much they learn at the schools listening in on the fellow pros teach.

Also, we've had 4 repeat students who attended 2 or more schools. Even coming as far away from Scotland.
These players are far from world class, they just learned so much and so many internal knowledge only some of these top pros can offer. Thus they came back for more. Some just emailed me saying they want to come for a third time!

One of the biggest key elements that these pros offer, that I feel is very unique, is insight on their mind and mental game. Their own inner thoughts and preparation for matches, tournaments, and high pressure situations. And the students get a chance to sit and directly pick the brains of the minds of these champions face to face.

Past Predator Pro School instructors included Nick Varner, Ralf Souquet, Karen Corr, Johnny Archer, Tony Robles, Thorsten Hohmann, Rodney Morris, Jose Parica, Mika Immonen, Young Hwa Jeong, and Charlie Williams.
All had very special knowledge to offer, and I'm sure Efren and Franco will be just as fantastic.
 
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koreandragon said:
One of the biggest key elements that these pros offer, that I feel is very unique, is insight on their mind and mental game. Their own inner thoughts and preparation for matches, tournaments, and high pressure situations. And the students get a chance to sit and directly pick the brains of the minds of these champions face to face.
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That is the one area I would agree with you. The ability to chat with people who actually have won world championships and the like and why they come out on top in tournaments where so many players are at nearly equal levels of play. What makes a SVB rise to the top level in America and keeps a Glen Attwell at that level just below. Or, and no offense to you because I have seen you shoot in person and you shoot great, but what makes a guy like Pagulayan able to come through tough match after tough match and win huge events reaching the finals of the WPC two yeas in a row against the best in the world while a person with alot of skill like you can win a big match or two but does not seem able to keep the mental focus to go the distance.

If there is anyone in the world that would be huge to ask about things like that the Taiwanese players such as Kou would be the people to ask, the lack of emotion and their business like mechanical mindset at the table is a large reason that year after year their country has a large portion of people making it into the knockout stage of that event while American players that bring more emotional baggage into the matches tend to have a tougher time getting out of their brackets despite huge amounts of skill.
 
Celtic said:
Honestly I cannot see this being a good way to spend the cash for anyone.

If you are a weak player without strong fundamentals the instruction from these guys is going to be overkill and you would be much better spending less money from Scott Lee, or if you are really a beginner even some local level master that can explain the game and is willing to give a lesson for $25 an hour or so which many will do.

If you are a stronger player you are simply not going to get enough hands on training from each player, the lesson will be very standardized to cover broad areas of the game such that all the various students of various levels of skill are covered. Even more, if you are truly a decent player that can run a rack or two you are better off taking your $1500 and going to the cash tables in the Riv during the BCA and simply matching up for the $20 a game or playing $50 races to 5 verses some of the action there, you will get alot out of that competition and that $1500 will go a long way.

None of those guys teaching this school got good by going to pool schools, they got good by matching up and playing pool against quality players. They went to tournaments, they got into sets with good players, think about it.

If the $1500 is worth just going and hanging out with the guys then go ahead and spend the cash, but if you think that the school is going to give you a huge increase in your skills on the table over some guy who is out there matching up and playing in tournaments with his cash instead, think again.
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Respectfully, I disagree with most of what you say...except the beginner part.

Not all pros have a knack for teaching but each of those in this pool school do and by watching a player make 10 shots they will absolutely see certain MAJOR areas of improvement.

That is especially true with several different pairs of eyes looking for the issues.

With over 16 hours of player/pro interaction there is NO CHANCE that the students won't be given very important fundamental pointers that will last them a lifetime.

The only issue of concern IMHO would be the possibility of getting conflicting advice from pros with such different mechanics as is the case here...but at the end of the day, the students will adopt the advice that seems to fit them best.

Regards,
Jim
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Are any of these guys recognized instructors? It sounds to me like charging a fee to hang out with them. If that's what you want...

I doubt that any of them are as good a teacher as Scott Lee.

pj
chgo

And what the hell are the "secrets of Filipino pool"? Oh, right, they're secrets - never mind.
Click to expand...

While you may have your doubts about ANY of them being as good a teacher as Scott, some of them may be BETTER teachers than Scott.

Those Filipinio pool secrets are not for PALAYAIN. :D

JoeyA
 
Celtic said:
That is the one area I would agree with you. The ability to chat with people who actually have won world championships and the like and why they come out on top in tournaments where so many players are at nearly equal levels of play. What makes a SVB rise to the top level in America and keeps a Glen Attwell at that level just below. Or, and no offense to you because I have seen you shoot in person and you shoot great, but what makes a guy like Pagulayan able to come through tough match after tough match and win huge events reaching the finals of the WPC two yeas in a row against the best in the world while a person with alot of skill like you can win a big match or two but does not seem able to keep the mental focus to go the distance.
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I know you said no offense but I take a little offense for Charlie there, he can definitely get there, he's just made the choice to do a lot of other things with pool and for pool than just play. If he was just playing and in training like some of the others he would be a monster that nobody would want to draw.
I just found this on a quick search but its enough for a youngster;
http://www.snookerpool.net/charlie-williams-billiard-9-ball-pool-player-profile-20061105/

I think if you can afford the school, you go and you'll never regret it. Can't afford it then its not your time. Spend $1,500 elswhere to improve? I know a lot of places and things to do with $1500 in the pool world and can't think of a better way to to invest it. Might be a chance of a lifetime, tough to nail these guys down.
 
While you may have your doubts about ANY of them being as good a teacher as Scott, some of them may be BETTER teachers than Scott.
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Yes, that's true, although I'd be surprised - Scott's pretty good. And (apologies to Scott, but) they certainly know more about being champions. I'd love to play with any of them, instruction or not, but I'd rather put up a hundred or two a set and go mano a Patricio.

pj
chgo
 
Thanks Joe for the memories

Joe T said:
I know you said no offense but I take a little offense for Charlie there, he can definitely get there, he's just made the choice to do a lot of other things with pool and for pool than just play. If he was just playing and in training like some of the others he would be a monster that nobody would want to draw.
I just found this on a quick search but its enough for a youngster;
http://www.snookerpool.net/charlie-williams-billiard-9-ball-pool-player-profile-20061105/

I think if you can afford the school, you go and you'll never regret it. Can't afford it then its not your time. Spend $1,500 elswhere to improve? I know a lot of places and things to do with $1500 in the pool world and can't think of a better way to to invest it. Might be a chance of a lifetime, tough to nail these guys down.
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LOL thanks Joe (Tuckerhashi). Yeah, I guess i was alot better back when all i did was breathe and live playing. Thanks for reminding me all the titles i won. I'm glad Efren not holding grudge on me beating him twice to win that UPA NYC event :) Nowadays I literally just touch my cue when I pop up at events with no practice. Definitely hard to stay world class that way, and competition keeps getting stiffer. But I'm very glad to see that, and I'm always rooting for my favorite players like THorsten, Robles, Rodney, Mika and many others to excel and win. It's a tough racket but they prove it can be done.

It wasnt easy choice to decide to forego my pool game and focus on promoting the sport. Tough choice for guy in his early 20's that loved and lived for competition. And very hard when you're in the top 5 rankings and winning....we all meet our crossroads
But I have no regrets! (and every once in awhile I get a flashback and beat some good players and win an event)
Like Nick Varner once told me, "Regardless of anything else, I'm just happy to be able to still play".
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
Yes, that's true, although I'd be surprised - Scott's pretty good. And (apologies to Scott, but) they certainly know more about being champions. I'd love to play with any of them, instruction or not, but I'd rather put up a hundred or two a set and go mano a Patricio.

pj
chgo
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That's the way I and most other players learned as well. But there wasnt a day when I was younger where I would not have loved for them to show me what mistakes I made and insight on how to improve and what to work on. I remember asking around and offering money for lessons to all the good players, no one would take me up on it.
and these were just short stop players.
I would have killed for a lesson from a pro, let alone Efren Reyes
 
All had very special knowledge to offer, and I'm sure Efren and Franco will be just as fantastic.
Did you just call Busta, Franco?

The thing about Efren and Busta is, whenever they try to help someone, they almost always are showing what the right shot is or what to do in some situations.
I've seen them gang up on Santos and Santos was just scratchin his head for not thinking of the right shot. This is Santos Sambajon, mind you.
 
3andstop...How do you explain top pro players making the choice and commitment to attend pool school? They were already champion players BEFORE they attended...why come? They must have reasons...:rolleyes:

I might agree with your statement on "group lessons" for some very specific circumstances, such as large groups. However, if there are appropriate teacher/student ratios (generally 3-1), small enough groups (generally 6-8) and enough time to assimilate the information (we do 3-day pool schools, 8 hrs per day), there is often a HUGE integration of the knowledge conveyed. Of course, it's how the student applies that new knowledge AFTER they leave pool school, that really tells the tale. We recommend 3-4 weeks of specialized, daily, short-duration, high concentration, training and practice, once the student returns home, for the best results. Some students need more.

Regardless of how I personally feel about the price of this school, I think the opportunity to "learn" from these four top players is a poolplayer's dream come true. As others have stated, many people who attend this will have stories to tell their grandchildren...which is hard to place a value on! :D

One more thing...take your books and dvds and lay one on the table...ask a question. I'd love to hear the response!:D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

3andstop said:
I'd like to make a few comments / questions regarding pool instructions generically.

Before I do, I want to say that what I'm about to say is my genuine feeling, and in no way meant to belittle, demean or in anyway downplay pool instruction, because I'm fully aware that for some percentage of beginners and those entering intermediate ability, personal instruction is a great catalyst for jump starting a deeper interest in the game, which in turn opens doors for learning.

I see the oohs, and aahs, here by posters showing interest and wished they could attend. I'm so very curious about the speed of the folks who are interested as it is my firm belief that the better you are (read B player or higher) the less you will get from this type instruction. Conversely, the closer you are to C or D ability, the less aware you may be of the many options available to learn about the game on your own.

I think that the only "UNIQUE" benefit that comes from personal instruction (unique in that you can't be taught it any other way) is that the instructor can guide you on your body mechanics specifically, and that's it. That's certainly not to say this isn't a very important thing, just not something that lends itself well to group instruction.

To wonder, or want to share what is taught, is next to useless IMO because if it is not specific to the players "form" i.e. some flaw that can be corrected, no other information could possibly be shared that hasn't already been written about, recorded on DVD, and is readily available for sale in any number of places. Not to mention the tons of available match games that allow you to watch and emulate players stance and stroke.

In fact, spending 1500 bucks on DVDs, and books would, again, IMO be a much better choice than any group lesson, since you can revisit those instruction over and over and over again. And you can resell them when you are done with them.

Being able to replay instructional DVDs, re-read books on pool,and then experiment with your new information is the way to sink it into your brain. IMO it certainly isn't going to sink in during a group lesson anywhere near as well.
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