No,.the rules , multiple boxing bodies and Las Vegas ruined boxing.
Pros today vs the pros yesterday
- Thread starter JoeyInCali
- Start date
I agree. Fran
I’ve said to complainers here on AZ “Listen to Sigel whine and you’ll learn everything you need to know about playing pool. The action matches were even better…..Pittsburgh John playing one pocket on a 5x10 ….four thou a game…in a trap…walks around the three times. says… “The trouble with this game is you gotta take your turn, if I was playing poker, I’d pass.
I’ve said to complainers here on AZ “Listen to Sigel whine and you’ll learn everything you need to know about playing pool. The action matches were even better…..Pittsburgh John playing one pocket on a 5x10 ….four thou a game…in a trap…walks around the three times. says… “The trouble with this game is you gotta take your turn, if I was playing poker, I’d pass.
That may also be true. I know a lot of people quickly bored of boxing in comparison as soon as MMA started growing
That doesn't sound right. Who did he beat?
just like pole vaulting. years back 13 feet was great until fiberglass poles came in. then it jumped quickly to up to about 16 feet.
then special sneakers were worn, the pole had a box to stick it in, and the athletes trained specifically for this event.
now we are at over 20 feet.
are the new vaulters so much better than the old. we dont know, as we cant compare them by the numbers.
then special sneakers were worn, the pole had a box to stick it in, and the athletes trained specifically for this event.
now we are at over 20 feet.
are the new vaulters so much better than the old. we dont know, as we cant compare them by the numbers.
Yes, I was there. Consecutive jump-ins at 12-11 to close it out.
That's big talk, but it will never be proven. Some of them would refuse to play under those conditions for starters.
Good discussion. I like the comparisons to other sports. I think in many sports technology has changed the game. I think people teach techniques better than they used to. I think workouts have improved athletes in some ways, and definitely have extended careers in some sports. So I think there are more technically sound players and greater depth. Golf has been discussed and there are thousands of players worldwide with efficient powerful swings and great short games. The top few hundred now would beat the top few hundred from 1973. But don't think Nicklaus who could easily and consistently carry it 275 with persimmon and a fade using a bad golf ball couldn't hit it long today if he were 30. (I am talking bad by the standards then- some say the MacGregor ball was worse than others then. I am old enough to have played the balata balls but wasn't good enough to tell you the differences between brands). Don't think Snead was weak or inflexible because they didn't have a fitness trailer on tour then. Other players who were great then are examples too. Babe Ruth hit dead baseballs miles on the hot dog and beer diet. I don't care if Mosconi or Hoppe looked different from well coached players today. Give them modern equipment and a month, as others have said, they will figure it out. The top in any sport would be great in other eras IMO. Depth and the quality of players a level or two down from the top is perhaps a different story in many sports.
I also think in certain areas players now are way better than in bygone eras. I think this is on the mental side more than the physical. Sports psychology has come a long way. Process. Preshot routine. Mental systems. Visualization. Applied to technique. Look at punting and kicking in football. Kickers now are way better than they were. Yeah, fields may be better, more indoor stadiums, etc... Tom Dempsey kicked one 63 thad stood up for years. But how many 45-50 yard kicks do the modern kickers make a high percentage of the time compared toto the '70's. I have good memories of Jim Turner in his high top square toe shoes kicking straight on. But come on. Doesn't compare to now. Long snappers. A super specialized task now to meet the speed and timing requirements. The ball has to have the right rpm so those laces are in the same spot every time. You don't have the regular center practice it for 15 minutes. Then again, I don't think there were kickers camps for all the aspiring kickers then. Putting in golf is way better, in part because it has to be on the modern greens.
Young players come ready to win now in different sports. Better technique. Better mentally. Better coaching. But like others have said, humans have not changed much in 50-100 years. Don't discount the greats from bygone eras
I also think in certain areas players now are way better than in bygone eras. I think this is on the mental side more than the physical. Sports psychology has come a long way. Process. Preshot routine. Mental systems. Visualization. Applied to technique. Look at punting and kicking in football. Kickers now are way better than they were. Yeah, fields may be better, more indoor stadiums, etc... Tom Dempsey kicked one 63 thad stood up for years. But how many 45-50 yard kicks do the modern kickers make a high percentage of the time compared toto the '70's. I have good memories of Jim Turner in his high top square toe shoes kicking straight on. But come on. Doesn't compare to now. Long snappers. A super specialized task now to meet the speed and timing requirements. The ball has to have the right rpm so those laces are in the same spot every time. You don't have the regular center practice it for 15 minutes. Then again, I don't think there were kickers camps for all the aspiring kickers then. Putting in golf is way better, in part because it has to be on the modern greens.
Young players come ready to win now in different sports. Better technique. Better mentally. Better coaching. But like others have said, humans have not changed much in 50-100 years. Don't discount the greats from bygone eras
You wanna see videos of Efren, Busti, Dennis and Raga.play for cash in the Philippines?
Chua, Aransas, Biado and company ?
Freaking wet cloth at 90.degree heat and people moving and talking while they shoot.
Gorst and Mika went there for some education.
tomatoshooter
Well-known member
150. Isn't that all they played to back then? I think Darren Appleton ran 200 in a Accu Stats invitaional.
Take a deep bow for a well-judged, well-reasoned and well-pesented post.
Thanks, you're right. Back when I was learning to play, good (tight) position was how players were judged so that's what I tried to do. Today it's about taking the shot that ensures the highest probability of not stitching yourself and getting the right angle. Distance from the object ball is secondary. I could play that way if I think hard about every shot. If I'm in a rhythm and playing by instinct though, I tent to revery back to my old ways. The other problem I have is crowding the cueball with a short bridge. Common in previous generations but almost unseen now. Now I see the bridge hand 12-18 inches from the cueball.
Totally agree. In 2006, Kevin Trudeau's IPT 8-ball tour chose to play on slower cloth. Mike Sigel predicted that the younger players would struggle with it, opening the door for some veterans to post high finishes. He couldn't have been more wrong. The young players had a very easy time with the transition and the old timers had no perceptible advantage.
The best can adapt to any playing conditions.
Last edited:
My major lament is the lack of footage of previous generations to compare to. There are some knowledgeable people here that had opportunities to see some play firsthand and I do give deference to their testimony. Unfortunately most of the footage I can find is post-prime play. If all you could see of SVB was his performance from 2020 and on then you’d have no idea how amazing he was at 25. I’ve never seen a Buddy Hall or Steve Mizerak match on video that impressed me.
I meant in my post that running balls for fun is different then running balls under pressure.
I got to see Buddy Hall (and other top players) in person in 1987 or 1988. I think it was '87. So maybe it was a little past his prime but also before some of the matches on video. I remember because they had a big tournament where I lived and I was starting out in pool. It was the post Color of Money era and they brought in Murrey tables like in the movie. I remember because I watched a particular match where Hall played a good local player. It was in Denver and he played Chuy Rivera. Race to 11. Hall got out to a lead. Rivera got a couple games and had local fans rooting him on. With the score 4-2 in favor of Hall, Chuy broke but couldn't make it past the 2. Hall ran from the 2 out. I mean for the set. Ran that rack and then broke and ran the rest. It looked like instant replay. Hall would break and park the cueball dead center. Then run out efficiently. One simple bank shot in the run. I was too new to the game to fully appreciate it, but still it was obvious how easily Hall moved the cue ball around. So yeah, people can say the pockets were buckets on Murreys etc... but how many times do you see somebody run a set out from 4-2? No safety battles, no template racks. No rack your own. Just run out. He was good by any measure.
Yeah, especially true of Buddy Hall. None of the matches you find of him on video really validate his reputation as America's best ever position player. There's little footage of Earl in the late 1980s, when he was playing his very best. There's some Sigel and Varner out there, but not nearly enough. There's not much footage of the best years of Archer, Parica and Rempe, three players really worth studying.
As for Shane, he peaked in his early thirties, with 2014-16 the years in which he showed his finest play and, seemingly, never lost. I think that there's plenty of footage of Shane in those years.
Pool's annals are not very well documented before a certain period, but all of that's changing and the next generation of players will have the opportunity to watch most of the greats of (what they will call) yesteryear.
Even this fan of pro pool for 48 years would love to see more footage of many of the greats that he DID get to see.
Last edited:
appleton's 200-run was in the semifinal of the world 14.1 tournament 2013, race to 200.