Question for Jay Helfert

[iusedtoberich]

Jay, In one of your posts a few weeks back you mentioned a business involving some sort of ovenwear during the 70's. Can you tell me more about the product? Was this a scam? Or was the product actually good. That was before my time, and I'd like to know more about it. It fascinates me the diffent ways poolplayers of that era made money.

Thanks for any info.

 

[jazznpool]

It was a glass cookware set that looked similar to Corningware. It was made overseas. I, along with an older poolroom buddy, Frank M., went around for a few days selling (or trying to sell) the stuff in the Detroit area. We bought a few units cheap from someone higher up the chain. I was like 16 at the time, around 1970. My friend and I got tired of driving around and around trying to sell the stuff. We finally unloaded the last unit at near cost to houseman Jack "The Hatter" at Cue Tips on Ten Mile near Kelly Rd. From what I've read, Jay was a crew leader that worked many different parts of the country. I'm certain it was the same product. Paul "Jew Paul" Brusloff had a lot to do with the product and he has been a long-time Detroit guy.

Martin

Jay, In one of your posts a few weeks back you mentioned a business involving some sort of ovenwear during the 70's. Can you tell me more about the product? Was this a scam? Or was the product actually good. That was before my time, and I'd like to know more about it. It fascinates me the diffent ways poolplayers of that era made money.

Thanks for any info.

 

[macguy]

It was a glass cookware set that looked similar to Corningware. It was made overseas. I, along with an older poolroom buddy, Frank M., went around for a few days selling (or trying to sell) the stuff in the Detroit area. We bought a few units cheap from someone higher up the chain. I was like 16 at the time, around 1970. My friend and I got tired of driving around and around trying to sell the stuff. We finally unloaded the last unit at near cost to houseman Jack "The Hatter" at Cue Tips on Ten Mile near Kelly Rd. From what I've read, Jay was a crew leader that worked many different parts of the country. I'm certain it was the same product. Paul "Jew Paul" Brusloff had a lot to do with the product and he has been a long-time Detroit guy.

Martin

I actually made quite a bit of money with it. I got it from Bernie Schwartz (sp?) if I remember right. It only cost me like $8.00 a set and looked so good you could sell it for $20 a set with your eyes closed. It came with color brochure that had it priced at something like $49.00. Believe it or not, I may still have a set around here somewhere I had given to my mother.

 

[hemicudas]

I actually made quite a bit of money with it. I got it from Bernie Schwartz (sp?) if I remember right. It only cost me like $8.00 a set and looked so good you could sell it for $20 a set with your eyes closed. It came with color brochure that had it priced at something like $49.00. Believe it or not, I may still have a set around here somewhere I had given to my mother.

Bernie Schwartz brought a few sets of that stuff to Baton Rouge in the mid 70s. Sold some of them at the Green Way for like $20. Then he proceded to bust the place playing pool. Bernie got weight from everyone there when he should have been giving it. Bernie Schwartz was one of the most underrated pool players of the era. Didn't know until now that he got the stuff from Jew Paul though. Very interesting story. Thanks, Mcguy.

 

[jay helfert]

The ovenware scam

It was actually made out of pyrex glass (tempered), and could go in the oven. It was designed to look like Corning Ware, which was quite expensive at the time. It was probably worth what people paid for it. About $20.

What made it sell was the packaging. It was all (about 20 or so pieces) packed in a tall box, that looked very professional. And you had a slick color brochure (flyer) that you carried. On the flyer, the price of $69.95 was prominently displayed.

The sales pitch made it work, and Danny taught me. He was one of the best. I only went into businesses where several people worked, like a small store or office. MUCH better than going door to door. I would walk in carrying one box and the flyer. I'd look at the first person that noticed me and tell them (loud enough for others to hear) we had just finished a home show and had a few boxes of ovenware left over. Too few to ship back, and were getting rid of them for our cost only.

After a while, I could tell instantly if I was going to make a sale. If all I got was a negative reaction, I was out of there immediately and on to the next stop. As soon as someone began to ask questions I knew I had a sale. If they asked me to open the package, that was even BETTER. All they want is to see if the shit is really in there, and not some rocks or something.

Many times when one person in an office bought one, then other people wanted one too. They didn't want to be left out. I ALWAYS had one more. Danny would get a box car full of them shipped to wherever he was, and that had a couple of thousand sets in it. His cost was around eight dollars and our cost was about nine, so he made an extra buck off everyone elses sales.

At the time I had a 1970 Camaro, and if I used every inch of space (trunk, back seat and front) I could fit exactly 22 boxes in it. I would go out every day full, and be done by lunch time. Once I got in stroke with it (just like Pool, see), I could usually sell out in three to four hours of pounding the pavement. At the end of the day, I would make over $200 cash. The least I would sell a box for was $18, double my $9 cost. And many went for $20.

I would work five or six days a week, and make over $1,000 cash each week. This was good money in the early 70's. After Danny left, I ran a crew for a while, until the box car ran out. I never ordered another, as I had over 20K and wanted to open a poolroom, which I did in Bakersfield. My wife had a new baby, and we settled down and took over the Cue Ball Recreation in 1972. She helped me work it and it became a big success in the community.

I paid 15K down for the place and owed 25 more (I made payments of 400 a month). Within a few months it became the hangout for all the teens and early 20's crowd. And there were seven high schools in Bakersfield and Bakersfield JC at the time. We were so packed on the weekend you couldn't get in the door. Sometimes the fire marshalls came by and told people to not block the doorway. Even the sidewalks in front were full of people.

7,000 square feet with 22 tables and a 16 game arcade. Plus we served pizza, burgers and zillions of cokes. I must have poured a couple of hundred every Saturday night myself. No beer! I was the youngest member of the downtown businessmen's association in Bakersfield. The older set would say to me those kids haven't got any money, and I would just laugh. What I discovered is that every kid has a few dollars and they WILL spend it. Multiply that by a few hundred kids each night, and you quickly get the picture.

I have had three other rooms but that first one was the best. I was making money hand over fist, and within a year bought a home in the nicest neighborhood, where the rich folks lived. I was young and dumb though, and wanted to party and play pool. Within six years it all came to a halt. Got divorced and had to sell the Cue Ball. Stupid me, but I learned a good lesson. When you have something good, take care of it.

And I owe it all to ovenware. LOL

 

[jimmy-leggs]

great story jay!thanks for sharing.

 

[mosconiac]

Jay: You have a great writing style. Thanks for taking the time to share your stories. They are a significant asset to this forum. Are you missing your calling as an author?

 

[Dead Money]

Cool Story Jay. I guess ya'll were laying the ground work for the "speaker dudes" that I see all over town here

 

[macguy]

Cool Story Jay. I guess ya'll were laying the ground work for the "speaker dudes" that I see all over town here

This was not a rip off, I had no problem giving my number to the buyer if they had friends who wanted some, it sold it's self. I remember selling a few sets in a bowling alley to some women on a bowling league. The next week they had orders from all their friends for like 30 more sets, everyone on the league bought a set. For the price you really could not go wrong, it was pretty good stuff.

 

[Dead Money]

Cool.I guess I was mistaken then.

 

[BVal]

This was not a rip off, I had no problem giving my number to the buyer if they had friends who wanted some, it sold it's self. I remember selling a few sets in a bowling alley to some women on a bowling league. The next week they had orders from all their friends for like 30 more sets, everyone on the league bought a set. For the price you really could not go wrong, it was pretty good stuff.

I think he was just referring to the pitch that you used. The speaker guys come around and say we just got done doing a job installing speakers at club or a bar and we had some leftover and then they offer them to you at stupid low price. They are either hot or broken. They are scamming. Obviously you were not but the pitch was the same. The bottom line is SELL SELL SELL!

 

[vagabond]

Jay: You have a great writing style. Thanks for taking the time to share your stories. They are a significant asset to this forum. Are you missing your calling as an author?

U have to meet Jay.He is good story teller and smooth talker and u will like him.

 

[jay helfert]

U have to meet Jay.He is good story teller and smooth talker and u will like him.

Ok Vag, how much do I owe you? lol

If only I could make two balls in a row. I swear I played some One Pocket last night at Hollywood Billiards with Bama Cue, and I kept running one and stop. That darn Ernesto and his tight ass tables. I got lucky and only lost two games. Bama plays pretty good.

 

[iusedtoberich]

That story was great Jay. It seems from everyone's accounts of the product that it wasn't really a scam, but just good salesmanship. I was hoping it was more of a scam type thing. I like hearing those type of stories. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Dead Money]

I think he was just referring to the pitch that you used. The speaker guys come around and say we just got done doing a job installing speakers at club or a bar and we had some leftover and then they offer them to you at stupid low price. They are either hot or broken. They are scamming. Obviously you were not but the pitch was the same. The bottom line is SELL SELL SELL!

That is it in a nutshell. The pitch style, not the merits of the particular products in question.I actually know someone who bought some that worked ok for what he paid for them. They, the speaker dudes piss me off though, I am always having to run those ****ers off when I find them trying to sell their stuff at our car washes.

 

[Gerald]

There was a guy in So. Calif who would load up a large truck and head out with a couple of guys who he followed in his RV. I believe his name was Tom Wolf. While he was gone he had 3 guys hustling the stuff in the L.A area. It took him no time at all to move the truck load. Eventually he had a couple of rigs out there and would sometimes go all the way to the midwest. He had a young kid who would come by the office off 3rd and La Cienega each day around noon and pick up 15-20 sets. As Jay said the sets would be sold within 3 hrs and that is a hard area to hustle stuff. We had helped Wolf start his operation. We were a last resort source of direct sales financing. We bought paper at a discount from all types of direct sales companies. It took no time at all for Wolf to not need us for the Pyrex but we still got all of his paper from his encyclopedia company. Product stood up as it was a good value for the price. Wild days. Thanks for triggering the memories.

 

[Scott Lee]

Holy cow CB! You HAVE been into everything! LOL We gotta sit down for another breakfast, so I can hear some more stories. Planning another trip to CA for Feb. See you then! Happy holidays...

Scott
www.poolknowledge.com

 

[JAM]

...When you have something good, take care of it.

And I owe it all to ovenware. LOL

GREAT read, Jay!

Another Bernard who I just met recently, depicted in the pic below.

I heard he used to take his wares on the road and would post 'em up for stakes. What a character!

JAM

 

[Jack Justis]

GREAT read, Jay!

Another Bernard who I just met recently, depicted in the pic below.

I heard he used to take his wares on the road and would post 'em up for stakes. What a character!

JAM

Was this guy known as Pots & Pans? Eddie Taylor use to talk about a player that would sell stuff in his spare time.

 

[JAM]

Was this guy known as Pots & Pans? Eddie Taylor use to talk about a player that would sell stuff in his spare time.

Yes, Jack. The Bernard in that picture is a/k/a "Pots and Pans."

I met him in Vegas this year for the first time, but those in my circle of friends knew Bernard from times gone by.

On one evening during my memorable trip to Vegas, I found myself sitting in a bar at the Venetian, listening to Allen Hopkins and a few other players speaking with a Cigar magazine writer about pool. It was fun to hear all the war stories and tales.

Pots and Pans was there, and he interjected a word or two to the Cigar magazine writer. I cannot remember all of the particulars, but Allen quipped back at Pots and Pans with a very memorable retort. I hope the Cigar magazine writer caught it. It was priceless and right on.

JAM