That's exactly what I'm talking about! As I recall Donny made the same wing ball 82 times in a row and then he jawed it. It's no longer pool to me.
Rack Your Own Makes Me Sick
- Thread starter TWOFORPOOL
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That's exactly what I'm talking about! As I recall Donny made the same wing ball 82 times in a row and then he jawed it. It's no longer pool to me.
You rack your own when playing the ghost.
In a perfect world all players would rack randomly and provide a tight, well aligned rack for
themselves or their opponent. Unfortunately, that world is just a fantasy. People like to win
and some will choose whatever path is necessary to achieve that end. In the old days Pool
Rooms had "rack boys", so the players seldom racked the balls. That luxury went by the wayside
in the late 60's - early 70's. We now either depend on the honesty & skill of our opponent or
we rack our own and the opponent then has to trust our integrity and skill. The answer lies
somewhere in that "netherworld". Or ... we go back to having a Referee do the racking and
we then must trust his/her skill and integrity, putting us back at "square one".
That said, I prefer to rack my own (randomly) in all games. We had to go to rack-your-own
for local League play & tournaments, as too many players were racking too loosely and off-center.
Those quilty were the lowest skilled players, who seemed to think it gave them an advantage.
themselves or their opponent. Unfortunately, that world is just a fantasy. People like to win
and some will choose whatever path is necessary to achieve that end. In the old days Pool
Rooms had "rack boys", so the players seldom racked the balls. That luxury went by the wayside
in the late 60's - early 70's. We now either depend on the honesty & skill of our opponent or
we rack our own and the opponent then has to trust our integrity and skill. The answer lies
somewhere in that "netherworld". Or ... we go back to having a Referee do the racking and
we then must trust his/her skill and integrity, putting us back at "square one".
That said, I prefer to rack my own (randomly) in all games. We had to go to rack-your-own
for local League play & tournaments, as too many players were racking too loosely and off-center.
Those quilty were the lowest skilled players, who seemed to think it gave them an advantage.
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When I play the ghost I am randomly racking the balls and breaking hard.
I had a guy in ACS a couple months back rack his own like Bob said. All solids on one side and stripes on the other. Didn't really care for how it played out even though I got the rack. I somewhat pattern rack my 8ball games. When I say pattern it's like how bangers always rack solid strip but put my own twist on it. But to try and equal out the spread of everything.
We played Bob's team 2 Mondays ago. I got to play Greg and my teammate played Bob. We didn't really expect to beat them and we didn't but had already won the overall so thought we'd take a try. I shot well but Greg capitalized on my couple mistakes and was able to beat me.
We played Bob's team 2 Mondays ago. I got to play Greg and my teammate played Bob. We didn't really expect to beat them and we didn't but had already won the overall so thought we'd take a try. I shot well but Greg capitalized on my couple mistakes and was able to beat me.
I know I will catch it in the teeth for putting it out there, but 9-Ball at the PRO LEVEL is a joke. I remember when they had Fats, UJ Puckett, Wimpy and The Deacon playing 7-Ball on Wide World of Sports. It was a screaming joke... these guys were 1 pocket and straight pool gods and there they are "for the sake of exciting captivating action" smacking 7 balls around.
People are going to use whatever advantage they can lay their hands on at any given point even if it makes no sense.... like a laser cue or a chalk holder (heh). Comes down to character, and I do agree that rack mechanics are cheating regardless if they are doing it because everyone else is doing it and LONG LIVE THE MARTYRS!!!! Whatever, end the senseless stupidity of cheating. It's an offense to sportsmanship.
And let's just leave 9-ball (Beginner level rotation) to the kids. I tolerate 10-ball,,, barely, Play more 1 pocket and hold more 1 pocket tournaments. It will never happen because the only people that play and watch 1p are people that know how to play pool. Bangers don't get it and civilians don't care. Such a quandary. Maybe if Justin Bieber started playing 1p? Hmmmm,,,,, Anyone wanna go on a road trip with me to the land of swimming pols and movie stars?
Always a pleasure,
Lesh
People are going to use whatever advantage they can lay their hands on at any given point even if it makes no sense.... like a laser cue or a chalk holder (heh). Comes down to character, and I do agree that rack mechanics are cheating regardless if they are doing it because everyone else is doing it and LONG LIVE THE MARTYRS!!!! Whatever, end the senseless stupidity of cheating. It's an offense to sportsmanship.
And let's just leave 9-ball (Beginner level rotation) to the kids. I tolerate 10-ball,,, barely, Play more 1 pocket and hold more 1 pocket tournaments. It will never happen because the only people that play and watch 1p are people that know how to play pool. Bangers don't get it and civilians don't care. Such a quandary. Maybe if Justin Bieber started playing 1p? Hmmmm,,,,, Anyone wanna go on a road trip with me to the land of swimming pols and movie stars?
Always a pleasure,
Lesh
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yep so do I
I am not bucking against this post, at all !!!, just mentioning the past to what brought the rack your own option. The amateur league players can basically for the most part of the whole country, play out of bar tables in small rural towns. Tables are dirty, balls are really dirty, racks are bent, rails are uneven to the object balls hitting them. 95% of the people try their best to give a good rack under these conditions, but, it's impossible to treat every opponent with a great rack. In tournaments, we used to have players who thought they were ready for the pro tour looking over the balls in the rack and saying this is not tight, that's not tight, to the point we would call the ref over or just throw the bent rack up on the table and say, hey, RACK YOUR OWN !!, tournament tables basically had bad plastic racks along with people who pounded the head ball into the table with another ball ( DUH ) now it's worse than before. So, to curb all the complaining ( some verifiable ) , but, it's like you got SH-T racked on purpose. To take away the bickering, when the league systems, tournament systems for the amateur league players went to rack your own, just took a bunch of nonsense out of the game. I have played in a few tournaments where I actually offered a re rack after someones break did not put a spread on the balls as something didn't hold from my attempt to give him a good rack. The pros and pattern sitting in a rack ?? I don't know, I guess things will kind of go the same way, but the rack your own has curbed a lot of bs there also I would think. Just my opinion of course, but, as far as what I've seen in the amateur's, it's been a blessing of a change.
I think 9 ball should be banned in all tournaments .... But ... I do have a solution to pattern racking.
Hang one of these over the table, put the balls in and rotate 3 revolutions, open the door. Now there is a fair 9 ball break.
Attachments
Being raised on ''roll out'' nine ball since the sixties, here's how I process this situation.
Winner break/loser racks speeds up play, but also brings out the whiners/complainers/rack mechanics who could ''care less'' about the game and ONLY care about the dollars.
At the beginning of each rack of play after the first game here's how it goes. I run out, I gather all the balls from the upper four pockets and roll em to my opponent while he racks and gathers the remaining balls in the lower pockets. After I've done my part, I then walk over to my cues and get my break cue and maybe a sip of water and gather my thoughts for the next game. During this time I'm thinking about how I broke the balls the prior rack, and other things of importance. As the racker I liked having this time especially if I sold out. I go over in my mind what transpired and what changes I'll need to make and make sure the wing balls (9 ball) are not wired and tight. Both players are doing separate things and utilizing their time productively.
That's the shorts of how I see it, and always will.
Winner break/loser racks speeds up play, but also brings out the whiners/complainers/rack mechanics who could ''care less'' about the game and ONLY care about the dollars.
At the beginning of each rack of play after the first game here's how it goes. I run out, I gather all the balls from the upper four pockets and roll em to my opponent while he racks and gathers the remaining balls in the lower pockets. After I've done my part, I then walk over to my cues and get my break cue and maybe a sip of water and gather my thoughts for the next game. During this time I'm thinking about how I broke the balls the prior rack, and other things of importance. As the racker I liked having this time especially if I sold out. I go over in my mind what transpired and what changes I'll need to make and make sure the wing balls (9 ball) are not wired and tight. Both players are doing separate things and utilizing their time productively.
That's the shorts of how I see it, and always will.
I've watched world-class players pattern rack in tournaments... Dennis, Shane, Corey.
I have yet to see a single one of them run 2 racks the exact same way,
where every ball goes in the same pocket.
People cried about it when Dennis Orcullo did it,
and in 8 runouts there wasn't a single duplicated rack.
Pattern rack or not, there's still plenty of randomness in the break, and it's about
one in a million for the cue ball and every single object ball to end up within a foot of any previous break.
And this is a game of inches.
The reason these guys make it look easy is because they're that good.
If you allow them to soft break from the corner, the only way to slow them down is to
prevent them from making the ball on a break (aka give them a bad rack)
and guarantee they can't get a look at the most important ball in the pattern: the 1 ball.
The rest of the pattern is almost irrelevant if a player can make a ball on the break every time,
and control the one.
I have yet to see a single one of them run 2 racks the exact same way,
where every ball goes in the same pocket.
People cried about it when Dennis Orcullo did it,
and in 8 runouts there wasn't a single duplicated rack.
Pattern rack or not, there's still plenty of randomness in the break, and it's about
one in a million for the cue ball and every single object ball to end up within a foot of any previous break.
And this is a game of inches.
The reason these guys make it look easy is because they're that good.
If you allow them to soft break from the corner, the only way to slow them down is to
prevent them from making the ball on a break (aka give them a bad rack)
and guarantee they can't get a look at the most important ball in the pattern: the 1 ball.
The rest of the pattern is almost irrelevant if a player can make a ball on the break every time,
and control the one.
Pattern racking
I totally agree. But I've played a bit of competitive 8-ball and I don't see the advantage of racking 8-ball with all of one suit on one side.
I totally agree. But I've played a bit of competitive 8-ball and I don't see the advantage of racking 8-ball with all of one suit on one side.
I learned pattern racking from Nick Varner about 20 years ago. He did a series for I think snap magazine and broke like 1000 racks and charted the results. Yes IMO it is cheating to sequence the balls in any fashion.....the rules say random.....but if your gambling it's on I guess.
If you think pattern racking is B.S. you are fooling yourself. Don't forget, a very small advantage to the best players is all they need to win.....and that is what the patterns do. You don't get the same layout EVERY time, but the balls do land in the same areas making each rack look alike. Case in point the TAR match last night.....even the announcers talked about it.
Also, the patterns work in reverse....if it is opponent rack, there are just as many patterns to make the rack harder as easier.....ever wonder why your opponent gets all the "easy" layouts and yours are crazy tough?
I don't think it applies to 8ball as much IMO.....never tried it.
Same thing applies on 10ball racks....even more IMO....getting the 2/3 to go up table with the 1 is easy, and gets you going.
My idea to stop patterning....put 7 number pills in a cup and shake them into a diamond holder with the 1/9 blocked, then flip it over and rack how they land....no issues!
as far as slug racks go, it is your option to check the rack, and get it right before you break.
G.
If you think pattern racking is B.S. you are fooling yourself. Don't forget, a very small advantage to the best players is all they need to win.....and that is what the patterns do. You don't get the same layout EVERY time, but the balls do land in the same areas making each rack look alike. Case in point the TAR match last night.....even the announcers talked about it.
Also, the patterns work in reverse....if it is opponent rack, there are just as many patterns to make the rack harder as easier.....ever wonder why your opponent gets all the "easy" layouts and yours are crazy tough?
I don't think it applies to 8ball as much IMO.....never tried it.
Same thing applies on 10ball racks....even more IMO....getting the 2/3 to go up table with the 1 is easy, and gets you going.
My idea to stop patterning....put 7 number pills in a cup and shake them into a diamond holder with the 1/9 blocked, then flip it over and rack how they land....no issues!
as far as slug racks go, it is your option to check the rack, and get it right before you break.
G.
You're right... it's not.
Funny if actual pro-level players actually tried that.
It only takes a few minutes of observation to figure out that with a hard break,
clustering all the solids together won't result in them all being clustered together afterwards.
They're all moving in different speeds and directions.
Reminds of those guys who sit there and try to alternate stripe-solid-stripe-solid for a "fair" spread
None of them can accurately predict the final resting place of a single ball in the rack.
If you can't predict it, how can you have any hope of of controlling it?
9-ball is a less chaotic than 8-ball, and even with soft breaking and pattern racking,
this is where Dennis' 2-ball ended up for 7 of his runouts.
Any think this looks like the same "easy" runout every time?
Are you playing the 38 ball ghost? No way.
Pattern racking is whatever. If both players can do it, then let it be...everyone is always looking for an edge, it's what you call a pool player. That being said, I don't like it, but you can't say it doesn't take skill. If it's so easy, please go win major tournaments doing it to prove it.
Yes, Mike Dechaine is known for his break, but who cares? Everyone gives everyone else the same reasons "the break is the most difficult thing to do; learning how to break will make your game jump levels" and then the same people bash those that are amazing at it. I had the opportunity to play Mike in the 3rd round of the U.S. Open this year and he completely dominated me with just his break. It's impressive, but nothing to bash someone about. Learn how to do it then.
Yep, like a lot of people, even the TAR announcers made much ado about nothing.
Explain this one:
If Shane pattern racked the same way every time -
And he (presumably) racked for an 'easy' layout that he can run in his sleep -
And he made a ball 22 out of 24 breaks -
And he's one of the best in the world -
And he didn't have an "off day" -
(pool-trax rating shows 910 out of a perfect 1000)
Then why didn't he run more than 2 racks in a row?
Why is his break and run percentage not higher than 29%?
Can you show me any evidence that even 2 of Shane's breaks came out
almost exactly the same way, or that every ball was made in the same pockets?
The benefit isn't in having the same layout every time, but to make it easier to get from point A to point B.
Wouldn't that be the same layout...? I'm confused.
The balls will not always react exactly the same when broken.
If you pattern rack for an easy run out, then you'll have very little movement to make with the CB. Lots of easy shots where everything connects.