Rating One Pocket Players

SpiderWebComm said:
Poor Grady has 3 more world 1P championships than some people on that list and isn't listed. That's ok though, when one of the pool mags listed the best 100 players ever, they listed Dawn Hopkins but not Allen (or something to that affect-- nothing against Dawn cause she plays well, but there's an error somewhere there).

Love is haaaaaaaaard to fiiiiiiiiiiiiind. :D
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I seem to be getting a lot of HEAT on this thread. Keep in mind this isn.t a concensus, only one person's opinion. Incidentally there are quite a few players that have won one pocket tournaments that also are not on my list.
 
Blackjack said:
...I also believe that Danny Harriman should be on the current list. He could give weight to most of the players on the current list...
QUOTE]

Who do you think he could spot on that current list? Surely not the top 5?
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wincardona said:
I seem to be getting a lot of HEAT on this thread. Keep in mind this isn.t a concensus, only one person's opinion. Incidentally there are quite a few players that have won one pocket tournaments that also are not on my list.
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I'm not giving you heat Billy - I was just instigating :)

How did you match up w/ Breit and Shorty?

Dave
 
Alex Kanapilly said:
Blackjack said:
...I also believe that Danny Harriman should be on the current list. He could give weight to most of the players on the current list...
QUOTE]

Who do you think he could spot on that current list? Surely not the top 5?
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Most of the bottom 5, minus Shannon.

I also heard that Mark VS Cliff was fair at 9-7. Having seen Cliff's one-pocket wizardry, one can only imagine just how far Mark could have gone if he'd have stuck with it... Mark... if you're still lurking, I still consider you the best all around player I have ever seen play.
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SpiderWebComm said:
I'm not giving you heat Billy - I was just instigating :)

How did you match up w/ Breit and Shorty?

Dave
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Breit and Shorty were a lot older than me,I played both in tournaments at the Stardust when I was in my early 20's.
 
wincardona said:
Breit and Shorty were a lot older than me,I played both in tournaments at the Stardust when I was in my early 20's.
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For the record - I'm a big fan. You're one of the very few players of your generation who still steps into the box and sends it in big. I love that. Grady, you're on the short list too since I know you're reading this. I've seen you step up and send it in big as well. As a matter of fact, I think I remember you two matching up at DCC. Very exciting match, by the way.

It was funny, it started out as a friendly match for a few thousand (haha). Next thing ya know, Grady told everyone if they didn't like cussing they better turn-in. Next thing ya know Billy's shirt was off after a few hours and everyone looked like they were in a heated grind. I was so tired, I never got to see who won--- but it was really exciting to watch.

To make it MORE entertaining (to say the LEAST), Buck Tooth sat down beside me to commentate your match.... whispering, "No, No... I don't like this shot-- it will do this or that for the opponent." Sure enough, the shooter would step up, walk around, and then start to shoot the Tooth's shot. Maybe the most entertainment I ever had sweating a 1P match....
 
wincardona said:
Several months ago I was reading a rating list of the best one pocket players in the world. Some I agreed with ,others I didn't.I will post the top 10 both current,and also in the last 40 years. (my opinion) INCIDENTALLY,I GAMBLED WITH ALL OF THEM.

CURRENT ---------LAST 40 YEARS

#1 REYES ----------#1 REYES
#2 JOYNER ----------#2 R.ALLEN
#3 FROST ----------#3 E.KELLY
#4 CHOHAN ----------#4 JOYNER
#5 DUEL ----------#5 BUGS
#6 J.JONES ----------#6 FROST
#7 BUSTAMANTE------#7 T. CHOHAN
#8 S. DALTON -------- #8 S.DALTON
#9 L.NEVIL -----------#9 J.BREIT
#10 G. OWEN ---------#10 BOSTON SHORTY
-----------------------#11 Allen Hopkins
-----------------------#12 Steve Cook
-----------------------#13 Mark Tad

Six through thirteen are very close. On any given day.
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Not a bad list. It's hard to do anything with Mark Tadd, because he played for such a short time. I won't argue too much with Billy's list of current players, other than to say that I also think Danny Harriman belongs on here, and maybe Parica also.

As far as the old timer's list, Eddie Taylor has to be on my list near the top, as does Marvin Henderson. I don't think Billy got to see Marvin play as much as I did, but he was the real deal. There is no one ever that had to like playing Marvin when he was "right". And Parica also is a must on my all time list. I would expand my list to include Mizerak, Sigel, Buddy and Varner, with Rempe getting an Honorable Mention. All five of the above played jam up One Pocket.

So the all time list may need as many as 20 names to be complete. And who really knows how good Jack Cooney was? I think he might be in the top ten. I saw him play a few good players and personally I think his speed was a ball below Ronnie.

Oh and one more very short list. All Time leading money winner at One Pocket. Hands down to Jack Cooney. Second place to MR. WILLIAM INCARDONA! Third place goes to Ronnie and fourth to Efren.
 
I can't find my name on that list...

Btw: Watch out for Niels Feijen. I have played him in one-pocket, and have never seen better play. Guess he will end up on that list sooner or later.
 
I Think Billy Should Be On His OWN List

Billy,
Where would you rank players such as:
Grady Mathews
Steve Mizerak
Buddy Hall
Nick Varner
Jose Paica
There is a big empty chasm between 'current' and your 'past 40 years' categories and many top players have fallen in.... imo :)

Doug


CHASM: NOUN: 1. A deep, steep-sided opening; an abyss or gorge.
 
wincardona said:
Freddy,
Lets get real, Artie was a one table player. I never saw him go on the road and play anyone. He was a grinding player that liked to play on a slow cloth, in one joint period. Yes he beat me playing one pocket,before I knew how to play one pocket.After I started playing one pocket regularly he had retired. I beat Bugs later, in the 90's and may have beaten Artie as well. But considering how horrible of a ball runner Artie was ,and a below average shot maker,he certainly got a lot of mileage from his game.
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Thank God someone finally had the balls to come out and say this out loud.

Lou Figueroa
 
One-pocket Tale

Here's a little one-pocket tale, edited for forum land:

Ronnie Allen talks of the time when he, Richie Florence, and Ed Kelly were in Mobile, Alabama. They had gone there hoping they could match up with a wealthy bookmaker that they had heard was a good pool player and liked to gamble real high.

After some hot sessions, the bookmaker ended up losing a lot of money to them. He still liked them very much, didn't hold any animosity towards them, and suggested that from Mobile, they should go to Johnston City, Illinois, to the Jansco Brothers Cue Club where Rudy Wanderone hung out.

The bookmaker said, "Ronnie, you should play him one-pocket, and, Richie, you play the 9-ball; that is, if you can get the fat man to play 9-ball, because his best games are bank pool and one-pocket."

Kelly ended up having to fly home, but Richie and Ronnie went to Johnston City to Jansco's where Fats hung out, but it seems that Ronnie's fast-growing reputation as a one-pocket player had preceeded him, and Fats told him he would not play him, but he would take a one-ball spot from Richie, if he wanted to play some one-pocket.

Ronnie told Richie not to do it, advising him, "This old fox can play this game, and I'm telling you that you cannot beat him spotting him a ball." Richie was apprehensive about the spot, but he sure did want to play Fats. So later on, when Ronnie had gone back into the kitchen to fix himself a steak -- the pool players more or less had free run of the place in those days -- Richie told Fats that he would try him some.

By the time Ronnie had finished eating and returned to the playing area, Richie had lost $6,000 to Fats. Ronnie left, but he said Richie stayed there and played Fats one-pocket every day for the next 30 days until Fats had him completely broke.

:D :D :D

JAM
 
jay helfert said:
As far as the old timer's list, Eddie Taylor has to be on my list near the top.
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Eddie Taylor himself said he considered Rags Fitzpatrick to be a stronger one pocket player than himself, an opinion in which John Ervolino concurred when John and I discussed the subject.
 
I like and respect Tony Chohan's game, but ask him how often he has gotten the best of Billy Palmer at 1P! I realize Billy doesn't go on the road...but he's the real deal.

Martin






wincardona said:
Several months ago I was reading a rating list of the best one pocket players in the world. Some I agreed with ,others I didn't.I will post the top 10 both current,and also in the last 40 years. (my opinion) INCIDENTALLY,I GAMBLED WITH ALL OF THEM.

CURRENT ---------LAST 40 YEARS

#1 REYES ----------#1 REYES
#2 JOYNER ----------#2 R.ALLEN
#3 FROST ----------#3 E.KELLY
#4 CHOHAN ----------#4 JOYNER
#5 DUEL ----------#5 BUGS
#6 J.JONES ----------#6 FROST
#7 BUSTAMANTE------#7 T. CHOHAN
#8 S. DALTON -------- #8 S.DALTON
#9 L.NEVIL -----------#9 J.BREIT
#10 G. OWEN ---------#10 BOSTON SHORTY
-----------------------#11 Allen Hopkins
-----------------------#12 Steve Cook
-----------------------#13 Mark Tad

Six through thirteen are very close. On any given day.
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sjm said:
Eddie Taylor himself said he considered Rags Fitzpatrick to be a stronger one pocket player than himself, an opinion in which John Ervolino concurred when John and I discussed the subject.
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I'm sure that's true, from what I heard about him. He was before my time and over 40 years ago also. He died in 1960.
 
wincardona said:
Several months ago I was reading a rating list of the best one pocket players in the world. Some I agreed with ,others I didn't.I will post the top 10 both current,and also in the last 40 years. (my opinion) INCIDENTALLY,I GAMBLED WITH ALL OF THEM.

CURRENT ---------LAST 40 YEARS

#1 REYES ----------#1 REYES
#2 JOYNER ----------#2 R.ALLEN
#3 FROST ----------#3 E.KELLY
#4 CHOHAN ----------#4 JOYNER
#5 DUEL ----------#5 BUGS
#6 J.JONES ----------#6 FROST
#7 BUSTAMANTE------#7 T. CHOHAN
#8 S. DALTON -------- #8 S.DALTON
#9 L.NEVIL -----------#9 J.BREIT
#10 G. OWEN ---------#10 BOSTON SHORTY
-----------------------#11 Allen Hopkins
-----------------------#12 Steve Cook
-----------------------#13 Mark Tad

Six through thirteen are very close. On any given day.
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Since there is no mention of Danny Harriman here, and you didn't list him as one of the worthy player's you would like to have attend in the One Pocket event at Diamonds in a previous post.

Does that mean you would match up with him even? or maybe even spot him a ball since he isn't even worthy of a mention in any of these posts?
 
wincardona said:
Several months ago I was reading a rating list of the best one pocket players in the world. Some I agreed with ,others I didn't.I will post the top 10 both current,and also in the last 40 years. (my opinion) INCIDENTALLY,I GAMBLED WITH ALL OF THEM.

CURRENT ---------LAST 40 YEARS

#1 REYES ----------#1 REYES
#2 JOYNER ----------#2 R.ALLEN
#3 FROST ----------#3 E.KELLY
#4 CHOHAN ----------#4 JOYNER
#5 DUEL ----------#5 BUGS
#6 J.JONES ----------#6 FROST
#7 BUSTAMANTE------#7 T. CHOHAN
#8 S. DALTON -------- #8 S.DALTON
#9 L.NEVIL -----------#9 J.BREIT
#10 G. OWEN ---------#10 BOSTON SHORTY
-----------------------#11 Allen Hopkins
-----------------------#12 Steve Cook
-----------------------#13 Mark Tad

Six through thirteen are very close. On any given day.
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Billy,

I have a couple of questions.
#1. Shannon Daulton listed below Chohan and Frost for best in the last 40 years? Really? :confused: How about all his One Pocket titles? What major 1P titles does Frost and Chohan have that Daulton doesn't have more of?
The list doesn't specify gambling only vs tournament play, but just by credentials, Shannon HAS to rate above Frost, Chohan as well as Champagne Eddie, who I thought was a better 9 baller and 14.1 player than 1 pocket specialist.
#2. Grady doesn't rate anywhere? Is that really fair?

You know way more than I ever will. But I'm confused as to these two points.
Respectfully,
Terry
 
I would have thought that both Grady Matthews and Nick Varner would appear on the last 40 years list.
 
This is one of the best posts I have ever seen on AZ billiards and I have been reading posts on here for many years. Thanks for posting something intersting Mr. Incardona. I respect your opinions since you know more about these players than most people here...especially myself. There are people who are not on this list that many people on the site consider to be great...you are not the only person that I have talked to that left certain names off the list...examples such as Grady, Buddy, etc... Keep up the good work...I love to hear opinions like yours. Insights like this give us on the "outside" a quality opinion from the "inside."

Plus, I always love to hear a new perspective from different pros.

Rep points to ya.
 
I do find it hard to believe that Grady isnt on that list. Maybe Billy will play Grady some even one pocket since he thinks Grady doesnt make the grade......:rolleyes:

Southpaw
 
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