Repair prices

dave sutton said:
i make the profit on my work. i make a small profit but i dont rob ppl. im not doing this to get rich. i have a fulltime job. i love to do this.
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That is probably where the differences lie. Some of us do it for fun and the interest in the game and look on it as a hobby, where you can make a couple bucks. Others have probably started out the same way and then decided to make a full time job out of it. What you can get bye on when you are treating it as a hobby (with another full time job to support you) is probably completely different than what you need, to be able to support your family and other commitments. If any of us were robbing people, we wouldn't be in business very long.
 
Mase said:
That is probably where the differences lie. Some of us do it for fun and the interest in the game and look on it as a hobby, where you can make a couple bucks. Others have probably started out the same way and then decided to make a full time job out of it. What you can get bye on when you are treating it as a hobby (with another full time job to support you) is probably completely different than what you need, to be able to support your family and other commitments. If any of us were robbing people, we wouldn't be in business very long.
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i am in a good situation. even if i could fully support myself i wouldnt quit my job. i love my job. i dont think many makers average $400-500 a day. ive done repairs for 10 years now. only made cues going on 3 years. i dont want to be obligated to be in the shop 8 hours a day.
 
Mase said:
That is probably where the differences lie. Some of us do it for fun and the interest in the game and look on it as a hobby, where you can make a couple bucks. Others have probably started out the same way and then decided to make a full time job out of it. What you can get bye on when you are treating it as a hobby (with another full time job to support you) is probably completely different than what you need, to be able to support your family and other commitments. If any of us were robbing people, we wouldn't be in business very long.
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I neglected to bring this into the equation but there is a HUGE difference when you are doing it for fulltime income and reporting it for income tax purposes, paying commercial insurance, and just basically trying to stay ahead of our uncle by running it as a legitimate fulltime business. You can only show a loss so many times before the red flags start to attract the IRS.
If any of us were robbing people, we wouldn't be in business very long.
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But this one statement alone, pretty much sums it up for anyone in any business.
Not complaining............just stating the facts.
In fact, I did exactly that........cues were a "hobby" for a long time with me while I worked another fulltime job.
It took almost 10 years to get it built up for the transition and there were times in the beginning stages I thought to myself...wtf did I do? But it's all water over the dam now!
 
For me, i'd install a Moori or Kamui or whatever for about $20. I pay $10 or less per tip, and the job takes a whopping three minutes. Anything more than that & i'd feel guilty. Just me. It's not rocket science, not even a mid-level factory skill. It's friggin easy. Why should it cost so much?
 
If I'm not mistaken, Almer is from Canada and we're used to paying a bit of a steeper price for goods and services here. The only guy in my small city is pretty much in line with most of your prices in the USA, $25 for a ferrule etc. The local Billards store charges $35 for a Moori installed. He screwed mine up by shaving the side of my ferrule and then trying to match the tip with the improper angle he created. Thats what prompted me to start replacing my own tips by hand. After much practice, I suppose you could say I can do a pretty fair hand job.:eek:
 
I'm wondering how many of the people here, who do repair work "for the fun of it" or "because they love the game" pay taxes on the money that they take in, on repairs? If you are NOT claiming the repair money, on your taxes, maybe you can appreciate the fact that those of us who do, MUST charge more, just to make what you do...JER
 
BLACKHEARTCUES said:
I'm wondering how many of the people here, who do repair work "for the fun of it" or "because they love the game" pay taxes on the money that they take in, on repairs? If you are NOT claiming the repair money, on your taxes, maybe you can appreciate the fact that those of us who do, MUST charge more, just to make what you do...JER
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Jer, I do my repair work as part of my business, if fact I do it right behind the counter in my pool room for all to see. I pay taxes on my repair work because it is part of my gross income daily.

Now lets do a little math here to see how much I make for a basic repair ( Tip Replacement).

Le-Pro Tip - Price charged $10
Price of the Tip - $.28
Federal Tax - 30% of $9.72
Gross Profit - $6.804
Labor charge - $5
Man Hour's for repair - 10 Min
Labor charge per Hour - $30

The above example covers my costs and shows my profit margin for a simple tip replacement. This example can change based upon the number of usable tips in a box of 50. The cost of single tip can be as much as $.47 per tip assuming that 20 tips out of a box are not usable. This can reduce my profit margin by $.19.

I do understand your point, and I don't disagree with you, but the profit margin is still there even if you include glue and the electricity for operating the lathe.

In the end we have to do what we feel is right, and charge what we feel is fair.

Take Care.
 
30$ an hour is more then alot of ppl make. 10 mins is being very generous. if you had an 8 hour pay of doing nothing but tips one after another im sure your average more then 3 per hour. im also sure most arent claiming all repair work. you can say yes til your blue in the face and i wont believe it.

another place you see this is leather wraps. i do the textured for 60$. lizard prints for $75. i make 50$ profit for less then 1 hr of work. can not complain but some charge double what i do
 
dave sutton said:
30$ an hour is more then alot of ppl make. 10 mins is being very generous. if you had an 8 hour pay of doing nothing but tips one after another im sure your average more then 3 per hour. im also sure most arent claiming all repair work. you can say yes til your blue in the face and i wont believe it.

another place you see this is leather wraps. i do the textured for 60$. lizard prints for $75. i make 50$ profit for less then 1 hr of work. can not complain but some charge double what i do
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$30/hr. is alot more than ppl make working for someone else. But as a Gross profit it's not that much.
 
Craig Fales said:
$30/hr. is alot more than ppl make working for someone else. But as a Gross profit it's not that much.
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correct. If your paying employees. How many are paying someone to work in their shop for them
 
As a business person, you have to make a minimum of $50/hour, IMO.
A hobbyist can make less, but not someone legit.
 
Craig Fales said:
$30/hr. is alot more than ppl make working for someone else. But as a Gross profit it's not that much.
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$30 an hour for someone who is self employed and has ALL the responsibility of whole the wedding is not making jack shit for what they have into it.
Now, if your making $30 and punching a clock you might be able call yourself a below average, middle class income American.

In the end........it shouldn't make any difference to anyone at all what anyone is charging for any repair, and/or built cues. I don't think anyone that got into this business was thinking they were going to get rich by over charging someone to put a tip on their cue. If you did, Lord have mercy on your thoughts. If I seen someone putting on a tip and getting paid $100 for it... even if it were a stinkin', piece of crap leather Lepro....I'd be happy for them and sure wouldn't call them a thief. In fact, I'd be more inclined to find out what the heck they're doing right and I'm not doing.
The market, your customers, and your quality of work are going to be the determining factor of your longevity in this business in the end.

We've already had a similar debate on the prices of finished cues.
Anyone remember the moron that wrote this debacle..........?

ok, but I took that personal just as you guys did with mine, so you see we are all wrong here and even after all of these posts, nothing has really been accomplished as a matter of fact we might even have regressed abit as humans... lol !

But seriously, I don't need a dictionary, I just type too fast for my own good then I have to go back and correct the errors... I'm sponteaneous with my remarks and posts, I do not sit back and think them out, so type it all out then go back and make corrections as needed !

I'm not bragging but I do have college degree so I am educated and honestly have a pretty good vocabulary so out of respect to all of you, I treat you with the same education and utilize a respectable vocabulary rather than talking down to you like a bunch of rejects from the hood !

Like I said before, to know me is to really like me, but I simply don't take crap from anyone, if I did then I wouldn't be plain old me !!!

I have no problems or ill will toward any of you including klopek, but you can't fire at me and expect me to back down, I have too much heart for that, and if you think that's heart, you should see me play, I'm a tough one to beat for the money, I'll play for hours even days, and as long as theres money in my pocket you won't win becasue I WILL wear you down !

I simply wanted to offer the same quality work at a practical realistic price... if I can replicate every single hit on the market then how am I wrong ??? if I give you exactly 100% everything you want in a cue how am I inferior ????

This cuemaking business is alot of smoke and mirrors, let's cut the fat off "price" and analyze the principles:

Wood costs/joint pin/collars/wrap/shaft/ferrule/tip/rubber bumper... theses prices are the same across the board.. for example : do you think kercek or searing or motti pays more or less for there wood than I do ???? we all buy the same woods we just have different suppliers but the majority of us buy from the same companies ... so what justifies the severe price increase... the labor ????? hell no it only takes a few days to put an elaborate cue together given that the wood is aged and at it's ready stage for assembly, you honestly believe that a 2/3 or 4 yr. waiting list is comprised of hundreds of people waiting to get a cue and that this cuemaker is working ridiculous hours to attain his goal ???? if you really believe that you have be bamboozled !!!!

Most cuemakers do not want to work that hard, so they put a few hours in a day turning woods and some assembly.... most of you are so consumed by the hype that you think the longer you wait for a cue that he must be doing something really special.... sorry ! isn't true... he's gone fishing !!!

I don't mean to rain on anyones parade but I think certain issues need to brought to light, there isn't some old guy with gray hair sitting in front of a 1940's lathe with bi-focal magnifying glassed strapped to his forehead with a light on it using an exacto-knife and a wood chisel building your cue !

We all use machines now ! this is the 21st century there are mabey 2 tatoo artists left in the industry the rest are using state of the art 15000.00 CNC milling machines like the one I have and even more expensive ones to do all those intricate inlays...

But still the cue must be assembled by hand and that is where the difference lies, but still does not justify jacking up the price of a cue to ridiculous price tags.... unless there are diamonds and rubies in that cue anything over 1000.00 is silly... because all the inlays in the world won't help you play any better !

There are some very expensive woods out there and I'll be more than happy to provide all of you with realistic market prices of exotic hardwoods and then let you determine how many mortgage and car payments these notorious cuemakers are making off of you !

It's ok to get paid well for your time, but this is pool... it's the most poverished sport in the U.S. so why should the the cues be so overpriced when theres no way to reimburse yourself through playing, unless you are a top pro and then they get them for free anyways, you have no need to spend that kind of money on art, unless you are a collector and image means more to you than reality... even professional hustlers understand this concept and do not buy flashy cues !

I'm not knocking any cuemaker in particular, I'm just saying prices of cues have gotten way out of hand and it's nobody's fault but the consumers, you agree to pay these outrageous prices for wood and want to be a status symbol and this why we a forced to spend 1500.00 dollars for a 500.00 cue.....

Unless you are absolutely the rolls-royce of cue makers, you shouldnt be commanding prices that only art collectors can afford, becasue there are more blue-collar players in this game than there ever will be of any other class and it's not fair to highroll the main body that supports the cuemakers and makes this game as competitive and wonderful as it is !
 
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dave sutton said:
30$ an hour is more then alot of ppl make. 10 mins is being very generous. if you had an 8 hour pay of doing nothing but tips one after another im sure your average more then 3 per hour. im also sure most arent claiming all repair work. you can say yes til your blue in the face and i wont believe it.

another place you see this is leather wraps. i do the textured for 60$. lizard prints for $75. i make 50$ profit for less then 1 hr of work. can not complain but some charge double what i do
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and
dave sutton said:
i am in a good situation. even if i could fully support myself i wouldnt quit my job. i love my job. i dont think many makers average $400-500 a day. ive done repairs for 10 years now. only made cues going on 3 years. i dont want to be obligated to be in the shop 8 hours a day.
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One of my helpers is a poker dealer during the season and he tells me that he generally works 30 minutes and rests 30 minutes. At this rate Dave Sutton is only working 4 hours a day and receiving by his own words $400-$500 a day. That comes to $100 to $125 per hour with no investment. Considrering that I work 60+ hours a week that would come to ................:)

I am glad that Dave is able to make so much money dealing cards but I really think that if he were to make his living building and repairing cues his prices would be very different.
 
It's true.
Nothing is sacred in pool anymore.
You want to find out a wood supplier and the costs?
Just ask here.
You wanna know how much each cue part costs?
Just post it here.
Good heavens if someone charges more than $25 for a ferrule replacement.
$30 for a Moori tip? Wow!
It only costs $8 ( they never ever have defective ones you know ) . None of them delaminate after a week and you will have to replace them for free.
Of course ferrules never break b/c players never sand their tips to almost the thickness of a quarter.
 
Sheldon said:
As a business person, you have to make a minimum of $50/hour, IMO.
A hobbyist can make less, but not someone legit.
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$50 in pocket? I have to charge $60/hour for shop time just to keep the lights on. That is $60 an hour plus materials.

I'm also not in the pool Mecca, here in Nebraska. I have to keep my prices low, quality high, to get people to send cues to me for repairs. I've also specialized in repairs that no one else can or will do.

I think I'm doing ok....
 
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dave sutton said:
i dont want to be obligated to be in the shop 8 hours a day.
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Dave, no offense meant, but if you planned on only spending 8 hrs a day in the shop building and repairing you'd go broke.
 
Out of the 4 pool rooms in my general area, im the only one doing repairs on site. And I only do tips and shaft cleaning. I use an old craftsman wood lathe converted by hightower to do my thing.

I have a guy with full equipment at his house, that does all the other repairs for me, only the customer has to wait 5-7 days to get their stuff back.

I do mostly for my room players, but do a lot of tips etc for the bar players and clubs around.

I work cheap and have enough work to keep me happy.

Standard tip $10.00
Any Layered I have $20-25.00
Shaft cleaning $5.00
Weight Bolt change, n/c just swap bolts

highrun55
 
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