Responce to Jerry Forsyth Article

D

DrMikeUSN

Banned
"Mirror-mirror on the wall, show me why this game does fall." As Jerry Forsyth stated, so I will be the mirror to show you the light.

As a promoter of our sport I have contacted many sponsors and continue to do so. Yes, you have to show a number of households that a particular sponsor can reach, thus selling product. As I have stated and many know selling product is the entire reason for having a tour or even a tournament.

What must be done in this sport is show the true professionals. Show off players who “Pepsi” for example would like to have representing their company; a player who has integrity, creditability, and class.

Where I feel this sport has failed comes from the gambling. Also movies that show the cheating and gambling; have failed our sport. I am certain that “Pepsi” for example would not want to have a player who represents them, and out gambling. Gamblers are looked at by the general public as degenerate. Who are the sponsorships looking to touch? The general public. They want events that draw in crowds, so they can reach the general public inside the billiards community.

What the billiards community needs to do is give back to the general community. Show off the true professionals, like Mika Immonen, Thorsten Hohmann, Rodney Morris, Stevie Moore, Corey Deuel, Gabe Owen, Oscar Dominguez, Shaun Wilkie, and many others. These aforementioned individuals could set the way for the sport; for years to come. If we had these individuals representing the entire sport, not just their sponsors, and their promoters we all would be better off. How about volunteering at a nursing home, a hospital, libraries, and summer camps? Why don’t we get our true professionals to get out in the community and read a book to a 3rd grade class? Or have our true professionals assisting the elderly at a nursing home?

These are just a few examples of how showing off our class can assist our sport in getting major sponsorship. Showing large gambling matches are cool for the people who know the game. But does that show off the side of our sport that we want the public to see? Absolutely the answer is no.

Team DMIRO is doing an event at the Walter Reed Medical Center in January 2010. There I will have some of the country’s top pros doing exhibitions, and giving away product. Our soldiers and sailors who have been wounded in combat are sitting at this Army hospital with very low morale. Team DMIRO and others will be going to the hospital to build morale, and give back to the community. If we touch one life; our event will be a success. If you wish to participate in this event, please contact me, we are still looking for 3-4 more top players and a few more sponsors.

This event and the others are just small examples of what the sport should be doing. We as players and promoters need to recognize this need and put a plan in to action. Otherwise, we can continue to win tournaments that pay out $1,000 for first place, and wait all year long for great events such as the US Open, and the World 10-ball.

What we need to know is that a positive impact will only be remembered 10% of the time, and a negative impact will be remembered 90% of the time. Let’s show our class, and work hard to get the sponsors that myself and other promoters out there are trying to get. By: Mike Andrews – teamdmiro@gmail.com www.teamdmiro.com
 
if you dont think the players you mentioned gamble you are mistaken.
Most of them do it with class, but unfortunately it only take a few jackoffs to ruin the reputation of pool.
 
Oh yeah

Oh I know they gamble. I am just saying that it is the reason the sport is in the position it is. And movies, like the hustler, color of money.

Gambling is the down fall.
 
i agree, and its sad because golf is looked at as a sophisticated gentlemen's sport and there is gambling on the golf course all the time.
 
Thanks

Thanks I apprecaite it. I served during this war, and got out in 2004. I was stationed overseas during the start of the war, so I want to give back to my brothers and sisters in arms as much as I can!
 
DrMikeUSN said:
Oh I know they gamble. I am just saying that it is the reason the sport is in the position it is. And movies, like the hustler, color of money.

Gambling is the down fall.
Click to expand...

Sorry Mike, but I don't agree. These movies you mentioned actually helped our sport thrive for a period of time. In fact many years of time. I also don't think gambling has anything to do with the ups or downs of the pool world. There is more gambling on the golf courses of America than in all the poolrooms.

IMO pool has not failed. Yes, the sport is in a slump just like many other businesses in America. It remains a viable industry with millions of dollars spent on pool tables, cues, etc. And there are millions of people who continue to enjoy playing pool on a regular basis in poolrooms, taverns and in their homes. Although the number of poolrooms is down in America, it is a growth industry in other parts of the world; Asia for instance.

Actually a television show that features some of pool's outlaw gamblers might be just what the game needs. Take a look at what sells on TV today. There are at least two new television shows in the works as we speak. They may not be your cup of tea, but I believe both of them will do the American pool market some good. I find it shameful that so many great pool tournaments are shown throughout the world on television, often live, and never seen in this country. This year the Mosconi Cup will be played in Las Vegas and shown to a worldwide audience, except in America. Go figure!

To my knowledge, the Billiard Club Network has the television rights to the recent U.S. Open, taped by Accu-Stats and their fine production team. They will be selling these shows to a select few American cable networks, but for the most part overseas. If there is anything wrong with pool in America, that is certainly one of them. The best pool and the best players rarely, if ever, appear on television here. I have occasionally seen an edited version of some historic matches, like The World Pool Masters, many months after the tournament was played. Would you watch the Masters on TV, if you already knew Tiger Woods won?

Unfortunately, pool is treated like the poor step child on television in America. It is this same attitude that permeates the sports department of many newspapers in America. I have had countless editors tell me that pool is not a sport. But poker or chess is? Sorry, I don't get it.

Of course, if we had a major pool tour with multiple million dollar events, that all might change overnight. But I don't foresee that in the near future. Do you?
 
jay, i respect you and your opinion, but pool has been in the crapper for many years now not just recently. the womens tour is a exploiting them and they have to sign a contract that they cant even use there own name to make money, unless given permission, that will ultimately kill there tour.
The men have no tour crappy prize money and people like those at the tourney we both attend this weekend trying to rip them off.

I hope for better times, but the image of pool has been made to be of degenerates and thugs. We both know that for the majority that is not true at all.

I also agree the movies mentioned help the sport but those days are gone and hopefully the work of guts like Mark Griffin, Justing and Chad will help make our sport grow for years to come.

Oh, and I would like to buy a signed copy of your book the next time I see you.
 
Canversations...

TV is the problem, and there are reasons why the men are not on TV anymore. There was a big tour in America, a few times, and there are reasons they aren't here anymore.

All come from not having the right sponsors. Yes products do sell, pool is one of the most widely played game in the world!

There are 100X more pool cues sold then baseball bats, and hockey sticks.

But the baseball players get paid by the sponsors and the fans, same with hockey, but in pool, we have to play 12 hours a day in a tournament for cash. I think that is the downfall. The fact that it is a gamble.

If I made a press release saying the number one pool player in America was coming to my local pool hall for an exhibition vs. doing a press release saying Joe Blow from the New York Yankees was doing an exhibition, which gets more response?

Which would be even printed? baseball, of course, but the why, is the answer we need to find.

I think giving back to the community can put us on the right path. Showing a positive image, class, and professionalism can put us back on track to major sponsorship.

Holding more tournaments, and challenge matches will not draw the sponsors to our sport. Showing professionals will.
 
let me add

Just to set it stright, let me add I love watching the Challenge matches and I am trying to put some together my self, but... It is NOT what will draw major sponsorships.
 
I think there is more to it than just the gambling. You don't see Ping Pong, Badmiton or Chess taking off either. Your average person can't understand or appreciate pool because they have absolutely no idea of the concentration and discipline involved. Your average person can't see or admire the beauty of the game and ultimately don't have the interest. People see pros on ESPN and FOX who make running balls look so easy. It's only us players who've been bitten' by the bug that appreciate game of pool and were sparse compared to the fan base of other sports.

It would be nice to see another good movie about pool come out. That could help get some attention back on what is the greatest game of all time imo. I wish Martin Scorcese or Coppola would make McGoorty (Robert Byrne)a movie. If done right it could be a great movie even for those who aren't interested in pool or billiards. McGoorty does a great job of telling tale of what life was like in the 20,30's and 40's...

But back on Topic.

There is plenty of gambling that goes in other sports. The exception being it's the spectactors that do the gambling. NFL Pools, MMA, baseball, boxing etc. Gambling... for whatever reason, and it makes no sense, becomes taboo when those participating in the game are wagering bets. There will always be the concern that players are laying down, dumping, or double dealing. The public perception goes back to the Black Sox and appears to still be frowned upon given what was done to Pete Rose. I certainly don't think it's just but neither are alot of other things in life.

It's not so much the gambling as it is the 'robbing' or 'Hustlin' that has gone on over the years some of the more colorful or unscrupulous personalities that has brought bad press upon the game. But it's also what gives pool it's character.

I generally don't gamble. I play for the love of the game but I understand the perspective of those who come from the school of though that the game being played has to have some value.

I'd like to see pool move forward in a more positive light and with the exposure on Satellite and Cable TV I think it has and will continue to do so.
 
it comes down to eyeballs. the reason pro athletes from the major sports make so much is because the owners make so much of of them they can pay them as much as they do. without the eyeballs on the screen there is no money to be made there for no sponsor want to take a chance at losing money.

The networks look at the ratings and see they are low and there for put wpba on espn classic at 3am.
 
a lot

Who is up at 3Am to watch it anyways? Pool players! Its 4 Am and I have yet to get to sleep. I was up playing until 2AM, now I am going to sleep. Let's see where this thread will go tomorrow when I wake up!
 
DrMikeUSN said:
Who is up at 3Am to watch it anyways? Pool players! Its 4 Am and I have yet to get to sleep. I was up playing until 2AM, now I am going to sleep. Let's see where this thread will go tomorrow when I wake up!
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Mike, with all due respect, ask Allen Hopkins his opinion about your opinion as it pertains to action. :wink:
 
I think pool is about to take off like wildfire. I just got three new students this week comming over from golf.

As the golf corses start failing from doing the same ignorant thing as the pool halls did (raising prices to make up for losing business) we will get new business..We are cheaper than golf. While snooty people will not admit they are poor.. they still wont afford the golf links...This ronoff will come into our industy. I think this is about to be a booming time in pool.

About one year from now golf is going to be the ones complaining about how their sport is dying, and pool halls are going to opening up.

So I dont know whether to be happy or sad...happy the sport I love is going to grow/ sad that my fellow americans cant afford to do what they want, and have to settle for what they can afford...
 
my 20 cents !

20 cents due to inflation ! but anyway , mike . what your going to do at reed hospital will definatly be a historical stepping stone if the next step is not back into bog. if more of these things can be arranged it would only help the publics view of the people in the pool world. i think other tours should take notice if not asked by you to do the same type of event at least once ! if all the tours did how many would take place ? yes, quite a few. meaning there is alot of tours which leads me to my next 20 cents.

baseball, golf , football , basketball, hockey, tennis, etc. etc. they all have a league a major body of their sport. thats what gets them the big sponsers. big league big sponser , very simple. when you all pull together you will have a chance for this type of thing. i don't think i'll ever see it in my lifetime. if there is ever going to be big sponsers and live coverage on major tv networks you must have a big league or tour. do you think big sponsers want to battle with each other on small regional tours or sign up for one or two big events for the entire year. they have many better choices allready. i think alot of the pool organizations should be ashamed of themselves to keep letting time go by and not have a truley major league.

for example the worst teams in baseball not drawing fans because they suck still have the commercials with the big sponsers because they are part of the major league !!! think about it.

as for the gambling part of the topic. gambling is everywhere and been excepted as part of life for many years. heck most every state has a big lottery and casinos springing up all over. sports lines have been published daily as far back as i can remember. now they have offshore bookies !
gambling is what it is. and you have your choice to bet or not to bet.

mike is trying to do something great for pool and its future. i totally wish people would support him and his ideas. you do not get many like him that is willing to do these things for the game. he is genuine !!!
 
Let's see if I can get this out in writing... a few years ago I saw a tourney on ESPN and Danny Basovich was in the finals, can't remember who he was playing but that kind of makes my point. They did a little profile of the 2 players (ala what the WSOP does all of the time) and Kid D came off as having a PERSONALITY! I thought wow this is what televised pool needs and has been lacking.

Now, we all know there are some great personalities and rivalries in the game but the telecasts have failed horribly over the years to bring them out. The players come off as stiff and uninteresting when they're interviewed, and it's not always their fault, it just seems that it's done with little interest and no planning and almost like an afterthought.

I think the ladies have been more sucessful because quite honestly a lot of them are more camera friendly to look at and more savvy when they're interviewed.

Televised pool has to have a setting that gets people interested in the players somehow first and foremost. Just my 2 cents.
 
Gambling isn't the downfall of pool. That's ridiculous. There's more $$$$ bet in baseball, football and basketball in one week than there is in 5 years of pool.

Pool is where it is because of the lack of a players organization, lack of a real tour with real $$$ that can get real sponsorships.

If UFC can bash-in the faces of fighters to the point where it looks like a MURDER SCENE--- and HARLEY DAVIDSON proudly plops their logo in the blood puddle, wake up people...... WAKE UP!

The moment someone pulls off what KT tried to do (but successfully) will place pool where it needs to be.
 
Honestly I believe all of you are semi wrong, its not the gambling nor is it the sponsorships. Its like trying to fix your stance so you move your head instead of moving your foot. Got to get to the source of the problem. Pool is dying in interest b/c the populace has turned it into a drunks play time thing they do at the bar. People think they can learn to play good at the bar(insanity). What we need are much more instructors (which is why I'm going to get mine) we need afterschool programs that instructors frequent and work with kids. If you start with the kids, and give people proper instruction then they will understand the game more, and acutally know what and how to perform. You start with the kids and move from there, and you watch what happens. There should be pool leagues at the boys and girls club for christs sake, every city should have one.

WHY, I ASK WHY THE HELL DID I NEVER KNOW ABOUT THE JUNIOR NATIONALS? I didn't find out about that untill I was out of highschool, I was 17 still but missed the age deadline by a few weeks (my birthday falls weird) I was running in HS and was selected for a national team to go run in australia and hawaii, don't you think i would have went to the juniors if I had known they existed!!!

THE PROBLEM WITH POOL IS WE ARE NOT INVOLVING THE KIDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And don't come back and say oh this and that, what I said is a fact, and whatever is being done at the moment is hogwash. Every 8yr old in america plays baseball every summer....where in the hell are the pool programs for childern?

If anyone is interested in some of my ideas that I am working on currently and plan on putting into motion please PM me.

If we can get the kids interested, its all over and I really believe that. Mommy and daddy can't say no to little Johnny, and if little Johnny is playing a summer pool league (why not year round) then he is that much more likely to want to watch it whenever he can on tv, and mommy and daddy are going to be watching it too.

Does anyone agree with me on this???


viking of the gulf,
Grey Ghost
 
Several good posts here today. IMO, gambling is NOT the problem.

IMO, mens pool could learn from WPBA, they have screwed it up each time.

Secondly, when all the pros dumped and Lebron the underdog won, that killed the action of casinos, funny but not the brightest idea for the long term.

I collect coins, (no giggles please). But times have changed and kids are not collecting coins and filling holes in albums now either. This isnt from gambling either, its about people wanting to do other things.

Poker is on TV and without the camera showing the other players cards and percentages, it was pretty lame to watch too.

The times they are a changing....society, particuallarly Americans has no patience (no saving for the future, we want it NOW!), kids play video games, and are on the internet, easier, faster and less work (face it become profiecient at anything takes work).

Gambling IMO has NOTHING to do with it. APA, BCA and other leagues do a pretty decent job of introduction of general public to pool as a social setting, similar to bowling.

Ken
 
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