Sardo Rack

jcrack_corn said:
agreed. but we are not talking about preferences or opinions. He said bob jewett is wrong. I (personallY) trust bob jewett.
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As I read Bob Jewett's first post in this thread, it sounded like a rationalization to me, like: "Yeah, Sardo's make divots, but divots don't really matter."

Well, I wonder if Bob would say that to somebody who started hammering balls into HIS table!

Focusing on details is a common way to avoid the point in someone else's argument. The simple idea is that it's preferable to avoid doing things that disrupt the surface of tables. IMO the "magic rack" is a brilliant solution to that issue.


jcrack_corn said:
I also understand mechanical physics and my own knowledge tells me that the static friction of the balls is what holds them together and the impact of the divots is minimal, and only enough to make sure that static friction can do its job. I find it hard to believe that a microns deep compression of wool cloth can affect the inertial moment of a billiard ball. I really do.
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Bob Jewett also said in another post: "Yes, as I pointed out in my original post, settling while stopping can happen. It also occurs in the rack area on worn cloth or on the spot on fairly new cloth."

So, he SAYS that such a divot CAN cause balls to freeze together that wouldn't otherwise. What are your qualifications for implying he's wrong?

How can you argue with someone who says it's better NOT to have that potential on a table vs having it--even if it's extremely rare?
 
GetMeThere said:
... Well, I wonder if Bob would say that to somebody who started hammering balls into HIS table! ...
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If someone who was qualified to tap the table wanted to do it on one I owned, I wouldn't object. The Eurotour has used tapped tables for a while, and I haven't heard any complaints yet. Well, the main problem seems to be that with a fair rack, people keep making balls on the break. Between a loose rack governing whether I continue after the break and one that needs shallow dimples in the cloth to get a tight rack, I'll take the dimples.

If anyone wants to try the Magic Rack, or something pretty close, for free, here is how you can make your own. I first tried one in the late 1970s and thought it worked pretty well.
 
FYI

The Magic Ball Rack has been used in the following tournaments

2009 Amway Cup
2010 Amway Cup

2009 World 10 Ball Championships
2010 World 9 Ball Championships

2009 World Cup of Pool qualifiers in the Nehterlands and Norway

I hope this helps

Mark Griffin CSI POOL is a supporter of the Magic Ball Rack and iam working with him in getting the rack introduced into more US based competitions


I hope this helps with your questions

If you have any further questions please feel free to email me directly at roy@magicballrack.com
 
The Magic Rack doesn't add divots to the cloth, but it can get in the way of balls that roll over it on a weak break.
 
jcrack_corn said:
agreed. but we are not talking about preferences or opinions. He said bob jewett is wrong. I (personallY) trust bob jewett. I have no clue who the poster is and if he qualified to dismiss bob jewetts ideas -- who does happen to be "one of the worlds leading experts" on the motions of billiard balls.
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Please try actually first reading the post to which you're making reference. I don't mean to be rude, but you really did not properly read my words.

At no point did I say that Bob Jewett was wrong. I said the divots resulting by tapped balls can cause bad rolls. He then challenged me, to which I responded with a rebuttal, followed by his agreement (although he felt the roll was not significant enough to warrant criticism).

Which again contrary to your post, is based on opinion.

Secondly, I clearly stated that my post was the opinion of some of the worlds top pros. Never did I state that I was qualified to dismiss Bob's expertise. I do feel however, that the opinion shared by these several top pros does qualify.

Anyway, Bob clearly knows what he's talking about, and his *opinion* is valid. It is simply not one shared by all.

EDIT: Again, it's not my intent to come off as rude or hostile here. I simply feel you've entirely misread my posts. :)
 
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I don't want to add to the variables by making divots in the cloth. One pocket or straight pool position can be brutal enough... i.e. being off by only a smidgeon/a hair/a teensy weensy bit, and having a run stopped by being off just a smidgeon... just a teensy weensy bit caused by the rackiing divot, is just not acceptable.

Conditions need to be as perfect as possible because I'm so imperfect.
 
Well I guess the only thing to do is rack twice [once on each end] and recover the table. Thats the only way to stop the dreaded divot problem. Really gentlemen perfection cannot be achieved. The weight of the balls alone coupled with friction will dent the cloth regardless of our attempts to stop it. I'm afraid the only control we have is to use your own table or play in events that have new cloth installed. Me? I'll be playing league tonite on public tables with plastic racks and divots so deep a soft break wouldn't push em' out !
 
"bumps and divots, for sure!"

GetMeThere said:
Qualifications aren't necessary to assert that it's preferable NOT to have bumps and divots on a table vs. having them.
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In my 30 odd years of hitting balls on the cloth, all that can be said is, "playing in a top American tournament on Diamonds covered in Simonis is like putting on the greens of Augusta in April." Sure there are divots on the course and spike marks on the greens, but nowhere on the planet Earth does it get any better!
"Pro's complain about EVERYTHING!" And no, it definitely doesn't mean there right all the time. "ALL" cloth gets racking divots, new, old, and in between. When you see the tables and the conditions in the Philippines, you don't have to wonder whether it was the American Pro's or the Filipino's voicing displeasure over the dimple's in the racking area!
Besides, Carmen Sardo, was a great guy to hang out with at the Tournaments, and the Sardo brother's rack works "r-e-a-l well, too!" :wink:
 
Zbotiman said:
When you see the tables and the conditions in the Philippines, you don't have to wonder whether it was the American Pro's or the Filipino's voicing displeasure over the dimple's in the racking area!
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Based on this logic, we might as well all play on grungy bar tables with bucket pockets, bad drifts, holes in the cloth, and miss sized balls.

(I'm just teasing :p)

In truth though, there is nothing wrong with wanting to play with the best equipment. When you have the option of purchasing an expensive product that creates bad divots, versus one that doesn't (and is cheap), it's not about complaining. It's about choosing the superior product.
 
I'm getting a nine foot brunswick with 860 installed in a week or two when my house closes. Me and my friends play just as much eight ball as nine ball. Now what? Magic rack can't help there. I'm considering buying a delta 13. Then I just read that they can't get the balls as tight as Sardo.

For the record I have experienced the balls settling into divots from the Sardo rack and I've experienced balls rolling up on the magic rack during the break at slow speeds and the balls did something much worse when rolling up into the magic rack. There are pros and cons for each. I think in my case I will use the Sardo and I'll tell you why.

For one I play eight ball too. Secondly with the Sardo divots it's the same exact chance for either player to get a bad break so there would be no arguments. With the magic rack one of the players has to touch a ball or balls to remove the magic rack and that is where an argument could start. A ball might have a pocket by half a millimeter but when moved it might be blocked or when two balls are frozen on the magic rack that is an issue. I always have stuck to what prevents arguments. Also with the magic rack a guy can cheat easier. Whoops! didn't mean to move that ball! Guess that one nine combo won't go anymore. NO IT WAS NOT THERE IT WAS HERE!
 
For the record I have a magic rack in my pool case that I'm thrilled to have when going to pool halls. Not going to bring the Sardo there.
 
Luxury said:
For the record I have experienced the balls settling into divots from the Sardo rack and I've experienced balls rolling up on the magic rack during the break at slow speeds and the balls did something much worse when rolling up into the magic rack. There are pros and cons for each. I think in my case I will use the Sardo and I'll tell you why.
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Here's a suggestion. Contact Abe on the forum (username i4pool), and buy his $18 tapping template. Then *lightly tap* your new table. Then buy a Delta 13.

Use the two together and you'll get a perfect rack every time.

It's similar to using a Sardo, but will keep the size of the divots down to a minimum, since you'll only be tapping it once a week or so, rather than every single time you rack the balls. :)

EDIT: Not positive, but I could have sworn I saw them do this at the US Open 10 ball. I was busy working the stream at the time, but maybe Jay can confirm if he ever reads this.
 
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Johnnyt said:
Magic rack is not paper and the Sardo is a pain in the ass. If you have back problems the last thing you want is a Sardo. Johnnyt
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I'll tell you what a pain in the ass is: sitting at the US Open and watching the players spend 15 minutes racking the balls unsuccessfully!!!!!!!!!!! That's what a pain in the ass is.

They should bring back the Sardo rack.
 
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