I'm not sure I agree with this. Granted, I could be seeing a masse effect but it sure looks like throw.
Secrets!
- Thread starter JoeyA
- Start date
I'm not sure I agree with this. Granted, I could be seeing a masse effect but it sure looks like throw.
I'm no physicist but I don't think that's possible.
Here's a less than layman's understanding of this:
I think Newton's opposite but equal law comes into effect here (or is it affect? Hmmm). Anyways, if the cue ball has english on it (or side spin) when it contacts the object ball it would impart opposite side spin. It is not going to give the object ball forward spin to help it along its merry way.
Don't take everything a pro says as the truth. Then again, don't take everything that a dude who hangs out in a basement says as the truth either.
Here's what I mean:
pj
chgo
I see problems with this:
1. With such a thin collision there's very little friction between the balls to begin with, so throw is negligible no matter what you do to the CB.
2. With outside spin you need "overspin" for any spin-throw to happen - which for a thin cut means absolute maximum sidespin.
3. Even if you use maximum sidespin and get a small amount of throw, the direction of throw force isn't in the direction of the shot (per my drawing above).
pj
chgo
I set this shot up as an example on my nine foot table. I shot the eight ball up to the corner pocket, center ball, not touching a rail, just lagging it into the jaws. The cue ball rolled to almost nine feet away.
The next shot I used left center spin and lagged the eight ball to the jaws again. Since I was using left english, there was a small kill when the cue ball hit the short rail. But not enough to give me half a table less of movement after hitting the object ball. The speed that enabled the eight ball to travel the same distance was from what? I don't know. You guys decide.
Best,
Mike
The next shot I used left center spin and lagged the eight ball to the jaws again. Since I was using left english, there was a small kill when the cue ball hit the short rail. But not enough to give me half a table less of movement after hitting the object ball. The speed that enabled the eight ball to travel the same distance was from what? I don't know. You guys decide.
Best,
Mike
Last edited:
There are two factors being overlooked. One is distance to pocket and the other is length/time of contact between the OB and CB.
I can make a extreme cut when the the OB is close to the pocket, but the same shot can not be made when the OB is too far away from the pocket.
Where is a secret......there is a difference between throwing a OB and adding more velocity to a OB.
Side spin, when used at the right speed and angle, will add velocity to the OB and does not throw it.
But if you don't not know how to stroke, then you don't know.
I can make a extreme cut when the the OB is close to the pocket, but the same shot can not be made when the OB is too far away from the pocket.
Where is a secret......there is a difference between throwing a OB and adding more velocity to a OB.
Side spin, when used at the right speed and angle, will add velocity to the OB and does not throw it.
But if you don't not know how to stroke, then you don't know.
i am reminded of something a piano teacher said to me when I was 8 years old. " i can teach you to play the note in only minutes, how long it takes you to feel the note is entirely up to you and God"!!
The more of this I read the more the above applies
Since the poster are sharing secrets, would it be unreasonable to request one?
Q: What is the secret to predicting & ultimately avoiding double-kisses when cross-banking balls?
I heard Grady mention something about "if the CB & OB lie on a line with any portion of a pocket, you will get a double-kiss when cross-banking". Is there a rule of thumb for avoiding the kiss in this case? How does the proximity to the pocket enter into the equation?
Q: What is the secret to predicting & ultimately avoiding double-kisses when cross-banking balls?
I heard Grady mention something about "if the CB & OB lie on a line with any portion of a pocket, you will get a double-kiss when cross-banking". Is there a rule of thumb for avoiding the kiss in this case? How does the proximity to the pocket enter into the equation?
Last edited:
Here's one that will pay off in a golf game. I suppose you could also use in ofther games too, but it's natural to use it in golf.
The OB doesn't go faster; the CB goes slower - because you've killed its speed with "holdup" sidespin.
This isn't the same shot as the original diagram, but a similar principle applies. Adding sidespin doesn't make the OB go faster; it makes the CB take a longer route, so you can hit it harder.
pj <- please don't beat me up
chgo
MOST scratches can be avoided even when the cue ball can't see the pocket behind the object ball. The use of various Englishes and speed controls the path of the cue ball and most scratches can be avoided. I think that most rules of thumbs should be avoided.
And experience and trial and error will tell you if you can avoid the scratch. sometimes in one pocket, you might not be able to pocket the ball but you can avoid the scratch and still get the object ball close.
FYI, this "secret" is presented in detail, with video demonstrations, here:
Enjoy,
Dave
Hey Dave,maybe I should go look at that first but for me there Is no fool proof way to just look at a shot and be able to tell If it's goes or not.I can beat just about any double kiss shot one way or another.Kind regards,John B.
Excellent point!
Nothing is totally "fool" proof.
Obviously, this isn't always the case. Some double kisses just can't be beat.
Regards,
Dave
Excellent point!
Nothing is totally "fool" proof.
Obviously, this isn't always the case. Some double kisses just can't be beat.
Regards,
Dave
Yes
Yes
Yes
But the only good system that works alot and all the time, Is practice,practice, practice.
I need to learn how to do that fancy editing.I like that.I'm am not knocking your systems at all.I know you have put In alot of hard work
and I have been there to look at your Info,which IS very very good stuff.
I would recomend anyone to go there and learn alot.Kind regards again,Dave.John B.
Thanks John.
I think you've summarized the single most important "secret" of pool (or any other sport/game):
Practice, Practice, Practice!!!
Regards,
Dave
fancy editing
John,
I suspect you are like me and use the older skin. No easy way to do the fancy editing there, a lot of typing or cut and pasting. If you swap to the tech 2 skin by changing Options in User Control Panel you can do multiple quotes much easier. Being happy with the old skin I rarely do multiple quotes.
Hu
John,
I suspect you are like me and use the older skin. No easy way to do the fancy editing there, a lot of typing or cut and pasting. If you swap to the tech 2 skin by changing Options in User Control Panel you can do multiple quotes much easier. Being happy with the old skin I rarely do multiple quotes.
Hu
Dave's EXCELLENT 5 CD collection of shots and explanations contains many "SECRETS" but he missed the boat by calling them "GEMS" instead. :grin:
I'm not saying you "shouldn't" I'm saying you "can't". SHOULD pool players make good money for their talent and hard work? Yes. DO they? Sadly no. That's just how it is.
If you hold on to your secrets hoping they'll someday provide you with a nice retirement package, you're going to be one broke 70 year old.
I have no idea what the numbers are from the Beard's DVDs and books. If he can live off them comfortably then good for him. But what The Beard knows and can sell is one in a million. The other 999,999 of us pretty much don't know jack :/ I'm guessing some of the secrets you feel are really unique... could probably be found online for free already, with a little digging. You may not even need to look past this forum.
I'm lazy to read the other answers, but I can give you a simple short version that is the best way to avoid any sort of double kiss threat (whether the CB is going to touch a rail before kissing or not):
Cut the bank thinner, and use inside spin to throw it in. By doing this, the OB is moving a hair slower (thinner hit = slower OB movement) and this means it doesn't return in time to hit the CB. Furthermore the CB travels more forward of the double kiss line. If the CB is going to hit a rail (as in your diagram), the spin carries it more sideways. When it arrives on the line of the bank, it's moving to go 'behind' the OB as it races to the pocket, rather than sideswiping it or jumping on front of it.
The downside is it's kind of tough to aim. There's also a little collision induced throw on any cross bank so in some cases, the inside needed is minimal. You can sometimes just get away with cutting the ball thinner than it looks like it needs, and using the right softish speed to maximize this throw and shove it forward.