Seriously CSI? Forfeits bring losers back?

Here is the problem?

What place money does Ralph get???

3rd or 4th???

How can three players get 3rd and 4th money???

You just can't take shanes money for 5th to 8th refund it and give it to Ralph! This means more money spent to pay the increase for 3 players getting 3rd/4th money! Not cool at all!

Kd

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I just spoke to Mark and he asked that I post his comment from another thread into other relevant threads. So here it is.

My suggestion is that all take into consideration that CSI has several huge events still going. Mark does want to provide an explanation and will do so as soon as the dust settles.

Lou Figueroa


Mark Griffin said:
CSI will be making comments in due time. In case anyone forgets, we are (still) running a very large amateur event with over 5,000 players and 35 events.

We agree this is an unusual ( and interesting) situation. We made a decision and we can and will explain why we did what we did.

The conduct of several of the posters in this and other threads is uncalled for and borders on stupidity. People can disagree- but accusations and name calling does more damage to the game.

CSI does more for pool on amateur and pro sides than anyone in the country. If there is a problem with pool - perhaps it is in the dis-respect given towards those that do things. Just because you disagree with our decisions does not make you right or wrong. It just means we disagree. And although you definitely have the 'right' to say anything you want, the informed public has the right to hold your thoughts in contempt.

In closing. The pro event was only one event of many. Give us the courtesy to complete the task at hand. Move back to our office and we will respond in the professional manner that we always strive for.

This will be the only response for a couple of days.
And to those CSI haters - have a nice day:thumbup:

Mark Griffin
CSI
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a great idea for money making idea for CSI!

Mark,

Why don't you put Sunny in charge of damage control and make that PPV? She would straighten things out in a hurry and the PPV numbers would surpass any pool program ever broadcast on the net! :grin-devilish:

Hu
 
I was there but unaware of what was going on until Shane and Ko had started. At first I was like many of you "That sounds whacked?" But I didn't have any info to base a good opinion so thankfully just went along for the ride. Now knowing what Elbeau and Renfro posted about this happening in other sports or competitions I'm kind of relieved for the CSI crew. Didn't sound right to many of us but I'm pretty sure they made the right call. Had they went with the forfeit many would be throwing the precedents set in other sports in their face today.
It was a rough situation fo sure and they dealt with it.
 
takeitdown said:
You can't have guys playing each other if one of them has nothing to win.
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EXACTLY

Once Shane won his match Dennis had NOTHING to play for against Ralf.
Even if Dennis beat Ralf he still would not advance. I am not saying Dennis dumped the match to Ralf but I can see him not playing his best game because he had nothing to play for.
In a round robin format such as the CSI event the winner of each match should earn bounty money, lets say $500 for every match won even if you don't advance.
No professional should ever be expected to put his heart & soul into a match with nothing to win.
 
I never asked much about the money but remember Jason Shaw telling me that even though he couldn't qualify for final four in the 10 ball he had a chance to earn more money by finishing higher in his bracket? Unconfirmed but think the did earn more so if Dennis beats Ralph that puts Shane first Dennis 2nd?or was it a three way tie that came down to racks and Dennis was still 3rd?
 
jmurphy said:
... Once Shane won his match Dennis had NOTHING to play for against Ralf.
Even if Dennis beat Ralf he still would not advance. I am not saying Dennis dumped the match to Ralf but I can see him not playing his best game because he had nothing to play for.
In a round robin format such as the CSI event the winner of each match should earn bounty money, lets say $500 for every match won even if you don't advance.
No professional should ever be expected to put his heart & soul into a match with nothing to win.
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It was announced on stream that the 3rd-round matches in each group carried a $250 bonus, specifically to give an extra financial incentive for players who could not advance.
 
Joe T said:
I never asked much about the money but remember Jason Shaw telling me that even though he couldn't qualify for final four in the 10 ball he had a chance to earn more money by finishing higher in his bracket? Unconfirmed but think the did earn more so if Dennis beats Ralph that puts Shane first Dennis 2nd?or was it a three way tie that came down to racks and Dennis was still 3rd?
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Had Dennis beaten Ralf, it would have been a 2-way tie between Dennis and Shane, with Shane moving on because Shane beat Dennis.
 
Joe T said:
I was there but unaware of what was going on until Shane and Ko had started. At first I was like many of you "That sounds whacked?" But I didn't have any info to base a good opinion so thankfully just went along for the ride. Now knowing what Elbeau and Renfro posted about this happening in other sports or competitions I'm kind of relieved for the CSI crew. Didn't sound right to many of us but I'm pretty sure they made the right call. Had they went with the forfeit many would be throwing the precedents set in other sports in their face today.
It was a rough situation fo sure and they dealt with it.
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Hi Joe,
Freddie Agnir (Cornerman) made a better post about it- "Lucky Loser advances." In his post he suggests looking up the term "lucky loser" for more info.
 
jmurphy said:
EXACTLY

Once Shane won his match Dennis had NOTHING to play for against Ralf.
Even if Dennis beat Ralf he still would not advance. I am not saying Dennis dumped the match to Ralf but I can see him not playing his best game because he had nothing to play for.
In a round robin format such as the CSI event the winner of each match should earn bounty money, lets say $500 for every match won even if you don't advance.
No professional should ever be expected to put his heart & soul into a match with nothing to win.
Click to expand...

Actually Dennis did have something to play for, a $1,000 difference in prize money if he won that match. He told me later he was uncomfortable with his new shaft and didn't play well throughout the match. Perhaps it was Ralf who was playing to lose, knowing what we all know now. Ralf is unquestionably a great player but something was amiss here, with him not informing the powers that be of his flight plans. If they had more time to decide what to do, a better solution (playoff?) may have been possible.
 
jay helfert said:
Actually Dennis did have something to play for, a $1,000 difference in prize money if he won that match. He told me later he was uncomfortable with his new shaft and didn't play well throughout the match. Perhaps it was Ralf who was playing to lose, knowing what we all know now. Ralf is unquestionably a great player but something was amiss here, with him not informing the powers that be of his flight plans. If they had more time to decide what to do, a better solution (playoff?) may have been possible.
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How big of a decision is it and how long do they need to issue a forfeit for Ralf and a bye for KO. Hundreds of times people have not shown up for matches for whatever reasons. It's not as if they haven't faced this situation many times before. Fact, they have no problem at all preforming this same task in the BCAPL tournament. Someone forfeits someone gets a bye. Plain and simple.

I am not aiming this at you Jay but why is it that so many people are tip toeing around and not just coming out and saying that's all that needed to be done. The only thing that would have made the decision hard is if one had their own agenda and the Ko brothers being in the finals of both tournaments wasn't part of it.

Ralf getting paid when he forfeited, and Pin Yi being told he would not get paid if he forfeited by refusing to play Shane (who was brought back from the dead) speaks volumes.
 
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BRussell said:
The way multi-stage tournaments work is that qualifiers are guaranteed x number of spots in the final brackets of a tournament. In this case, there were 4 qualifiers guaranteed for the final single-elimination round. It doesn't make any sense, when a qualifier forfeits, to put a bye in the final stage of the tournament. You fill the final brackets with the qualifiers.
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I agree. Spots should be filled.
 
something I do want addressed although I think it is BS

itsfroze said:
How big of a decision is it and how long do they need to issue a forfeit for Ralf and a bye for KO. Hundreds of times people have not shown up for matches for whatever reasons. It's not as if they haven't faced this situation many times before. Fact, they have no problem at all preforming this same task in the BCAPL tournament. Someone
forfeits someone gets a bye. Plain and simple.

I am not aiming this at you Jay but why is it that so many people are tip toeing around and not just coming out and saying that's all that needed to be done. The only thing that would have made the decision hard is if one had their own agenda and the Ko brothers being in the finals of both tournaments wasn't part of it.

Ralf getting paid when he forfeited, and Pin Yi being told he would not get paid if he forfeited by refusing to play Shane (who was brought back from the dead) speaks volumes.
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Almost certain this isn't true but I do want CSI to address the part I painted red when they explain things. He would have lost money if he didn't play since now he is forfeiting at the same level as Ralf instead of moving up at least one level but telling him he wouldn't get paid, that would be total garbage and far from the way I think CSI would behave.

Hu
 
jay helfert said:
Actually Dennis did have something to play for, a $1,000 difference in prize money if he won that match. He told me later he was uncomfortable with his new shaft and didn't play well throughout the match. Perhaps it was Ralf who was playing to lose, knowing what we all know now. Ralf is unquestionably a great player but something was amiss here, with him not informing the powers that be of his flight plans. If they had more time to decide what to do, a better solution (playoff?) may have been possible.
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Thanks for the correction :thumbup:
 
The Renfro said:
Well since you have admitted to the being the lowest D player on Az I guess I should bow to your lack of a clue but that aint gonna happen......

The dbl elimination tournament is by far worse than a round robin.. Luck of the draw since most are not seeded could have someone playing 1-2 world beaters while someone else goes thru a death bracket with all world class players. Sure there may be collusion in a round robin by players if someone is eliminated already and playing someone who can advance but heyyy Ralf won so so much for the invited pros having the character you are projecting on them.. If Ralf had dumped and jumped on a plane and CSI had found out about it... Ralf would not ever be asked back...

Thats what the invitational is about.. You create a set of pros that act with character and class and you can maybe drag pool back into the sunlight..

If the pros aren't dumping and the interest rises then maybe just maybe you will be able to book bets on professional matches again at the live betting windows.. That will be a step back to legitimacy......

We do invitational round robins at the Accu-Stats Arena several times a year.... And the guys are there to play... Every game of every match... These are world class players... Champions... They are not your local hero at the bar that will lay down trying to make a score... They bring it and keep bringing it which is what makes them champions... You think they need skin in the game to play? You have no and I mean NO clue as to what makes them who they are......

Chris
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Certainly you are not saying here that SVB has "character & class", are you?

P.S. You don't know shit about poolplayers to write a simpleton post like this one.

ONB
 
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