Personally, I agree with ya Jerry. Because this is allowed to happen is why so many are doing it. Should they be running a real business, then they would have advertising expenses figured into their actual overhead.
Should folks freeload on AZB?
- Thread starter Jerry Forsyth
- Start date
S
Scottster
Guest
Come on, 95% of everybody participating in this topic knows exactly who he is referring too. This person's ads are not pool exclusive and is the only person on my ignore list. I got sick and tired of this person replying to topics for the sole purpose of getting his huge signature to appear on a popular topic.
Difficult call
I have had my website address in my signature for a while now. I have advertised two tournaments on here and that is really about it. The only business I know FOR SURE that I got from AZBilliards is some people that used the half off coupons for playing pool. I really dont know how much I would advertise if I were being charged. It would be less fun and more business then. Last year I donated about $300 worth of stuff to the AZBilliards room at Derby City. I figured that was my way of giving back to the friends I have made on here and helping out pool in general. I am definitely in the negative in terms of income vs expenses. One suggestions is having a limit on the amount of space or characters allowed in a signature I guess. Maybe a flat fee for listing cues/tables for sale. There is always going to be a loss leader in giving away free advertising. If you make money on a tournament do you get charged for advertising. If its for charity do you? Who enforces this? How many people would stop posting if they couldnt tell everyone they owned a pool hall or bought/sold cues because they would be charged? What if one of my pool players mentioned I was selling a Gold Crown on here...would I get charged? Would I be suspected of looking for loopholes? There are an infinite number of scenerios that can never be addressed for everyone. AZBilliards is the top pool website for a reason. They are doing a lot more things RIGHT than wrong. JMO.
Craig...see signature below for shameless plug.
I have had my website address in my signature for a while now. I have advertised two tournaments on here and that is really about it. The only business I know FOR SURE that I got from AZBilliards is some people that used the half off coupons for playing pool. I really dont know how much I would advertise if I were being charged. It would be less fun and more business then. Last year I donated about $300 worth of stuff to the AZBilliards room at Derby City. I figured that was my way of giving back to the friends I have made on here and helping out pool in general. I am definitely in the negative in terms of income vs expenses. One suggestions is having a limit on the amount of space or characters allowed in a signature I guess. Maybe a flat fee for listing cues/tables for sale. There is always going to be a loss leader in giving away free advertising. If you make money on a tournament do you get charged for advertising. If its for charity do you? Who enforces this? How many people would stop posting if they couldnt tell everyone they owned a pool hall or bought/sold cues because they would be charged? What if one of my pool players mentioned I was selling a Gold Crown on here...would I get charged? Would I be suspected of looking for loopholes? There are an infinite number of scenerios that can never be addressed for everyone. AZBilliards is the top pool website for a reason. They are doing a lot more things RIGHT than wrong. JMO.
Craig...see signature below for shameless plug.
JCIN said:
Tap Tap Tap
S
Scottster
Guest
cueandcushion said:
Craig, let your guilty feelings go. Your signature is extremely appropriate.
You are promoting your business which totally evolves around pool.
Ads similar to Craig's have never bothered me, they are all 100% pool related.
Bastian said:
One of the banners is the AMERICAN CUEMAKERS ASSOCIATION. It is not a business but an organization of cuemakers who pay annual dues. To become a member you need to meet some pretty rigid qualifications --- in other words you need to build a cue and cuemakers like Barry Szamboti, Ernie Gutierrez (Ginacue), Dennis Searing, Tim Scruggs (there is a roster list on the website www.cuemakers.org) judge the cue and either reject or accept you as a member based on your workmanship. The American Cuemakers Association advertises with Mike with the intend of benefiting the members (ie sell cues). Since I am a member, part of my signature is my contact information and VOTING MEMBER OF THE AMERICAN CUEMAKERS ASSOCIATION.
ps I think I have only put two cues in the sale section since Sept 2004 ----
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Sweet Music and Slide Show
Nice music and slide show JAM, I am digging that Ceaser's Palace guard outfit that Keith is modeling, JAM on my friend.
Take Care
-don
JAM said:But you gotta admit, the music played on the link in my signature line is definitely one cool pool song!
JAM
Nice music and slide show JAM, I am digging that Ceaser's Palace guard outfit that Keith is modeling, JAM on my friend.
Take Care
-don
Thecoats said:As a life long Reds fan it will nice to see that damn Cardinals World Champ stuff gone after this season
I am fine with mos of the advertising I have seen in people's posts here.
-don
We are only 2 games out...We might be there another year buddy!!!
Good Luck To You....
The next time I come from KC to St. Louis to watch your Cardinals pound my Reds I will swing by your place and say hello. Good luck to your team but I think the Cubs are too talented, but strange things do happen that Cubs team.
Take Care
-don
cueandcushion said:We are only 2 games out...We might be there another year buddy!!!
The next time I come from KC to St. Louis to watch your Cardinals pound my Reds I will swing by your place and say hello. Good luck to your team but I think the Cubs are too talented, but strange things do happen that Cubs team.
Take Care
-don
Jerry Forsyth said:
Jerry I agree with you. There are to many people using this forum for advertisement purposes without paying anything to the forum sponsors. This crap has kinda gotten out of hand in the year or so, infact, I suspect that at least 5% or more of the posts in one form or another are dedicated to this purpose.
However, the one thing that I do not understand is why the forum sponsor's do nothing about it, and they are the only ones who can!!!
oo oo I know this one!
lol is the person AZE, scottster?
Of all the signatures that have ads in them, his is the only one that really jumped right out at me (must be a sign of a good ad-man though). Part of it is because he'll plug his services in the actual post, not just passively in his signature. I got a laugh when everyone's arguing in the grady and the randy goldwater threads and he'll pop in for a second with "no doubt y'all will be needing some t-shirts or something once you get things going! Give me a holler!"
(no offense to AZE if he reads any of this, he seems like a cool enough guy and I bet he's a slick designer too)
...
Otherwise I haven't particularly noticed anyone's. My eyes skim over signatures of known posters after I've read them once. PKM could probably change his to say something really obscene and I wouldn't notice it for like a year, if ever.
I feel that expecting people not to advertise at all (especially when there's a lot of well-appreciated pool services like lessons) is no good, equally it would be no good if everyone's sig was a colorful animated gif that took up 1/4th of the screen. I don't think anything needs to change, but if it did, I think the solution would be pretty simple... require that signature ads use no images, or put a size limit (say 100 pixels vertically) on them.
lol is the person AZE, scottster?
Of all the signatures that have ads in them, his is the only one that really jumped right out at me (must be a sign of a good ad-man though). Part of it is because he'll plug his services in the actual post, not just passively in his signature. I got a laugh when everyone's arguing in the grady and the randy goldwater threads and he'll pop in for a second with "no doubt y'all will be needing some t-shirts or something once you get things going! Give me a holler!"
(no offense to AZE if he reads any of this, he seems like a cool enough guy and I bet he's a slick designer too)
...
Otherwise I haven't particularly noticed anyone's. My eyes skim over signatures of known posters after I've read them once. PKM could probably change his to say something really obscene and I wouldn't notice it for like a year, if ever.
I feel that expecting people not to advertise at all (especially when there's a lot of well-appreciated pool services like lessons) is no good, equally it would be no good if everyone's sig was a colorful animated gif that took up 1/4th of the screen. I don't think anything needs to change, but if it did, I think the solution would be pretty simple... require that signature ads use no images, or put a size limit (say 100 pixels vertically) on them.
JAM said:But you gotta admit, the music played on the link in my signature line is definitely one cool pool song!
JAM
That really is cool, JAM. Great photos. On topic....I like the freedom on this site, lots of folks doing their own thing, sharing with everyone what they do, and drumming up some business doesn't hurt at all. I personally have bought and sold in both the Wanted/For Sale forum and Ask the Cuemakers forum, and have noticed business ads in signatures. Most of these are self-operated, entreprenuerial ventures and I don't mind it one bit, in fact I wish them well and good fortune. It's the freedom of expression here that allows this, and I wouldn't like to see it change.
whitewolf said:
Ray...You may laugh now, but recall several years ago, when you found me on another pool forum, to ask me to come work with you and Laura. Then, afterwards, you lavished praise about me back on that same forum. Many posters have emailed and PM'd me asking me to post schedules of my travels...partly because they want a chance to see a show, or get a lesson; and partly because I am the only professional BCA instructor who travels full time, and will come to your home to work with you. Yes, my site has a place for a schedule lineup, but I am unable to post or change information on it (only my website manager has access, and it's difficult for him to keep up with everything he already does). Also my schedule often changes at the last minute, and so I sometimes post it here for those who have asked. I do try to contribute as much as possible on this forum and the other one. I do that because I CARE about the game, not because I want to "fish" for students. I am VERY busy, and enjoy it that way. If Mike or anyone else feels that I'm stepping over the line, they have a right to say so.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
S
Scottster
Guest
Scott Lee said:
BZZZZT! Again another person who should not feel any guilt about their advertising here. Again it is 100% POOL Related and prudent to the community.
NYC cue dude
Banned
for the life of me I have no idea who jf is referring to. I may be the exception, but I believe I am 100% immune to passive advertising. Perhaps its a result of living in NYC for nearly 20 years. So for me, not only doesn't the advertisements not bother me, I don't even notice them.
But I guess that the issue here isn't what the members think of the ads, but why are some advertisers paying, and others, not.
In the end, Mike will decide what exactly he wants on his site. I suspect that the majority of paid advertisers don't participate as forum members. Their specific goal os to reach viewers, and outside of monetary payments, do nothing to enhance the forum community.
Let's not forget, that it was Mike who created this site, and one of its most popular sections is the wanted/for sale area.
I can't imagine that turning this section of az into a pay as you use area being effective. I think the most important thing to consider is the amount of traffic generated in the for sale section, and revamping this only leaves the door open for our competitors.
If the powers that be choose to enforce a signature discretion code, I am all for it. Actually, I support and respect any and all management decisions here
on az.
My opinion, that's all.
Rg
But I guess that the issue here isn't what the members think of the ads, but why are some advertisers paying, and others, not.
In the end, Mike will decide what exactly he wants on his site. I suspect that the majority of paid advertisers don't participate as forum members. Their specific goal os to reach viewers, and outside of monetary payments, do nothing to enhance the forum community.
Let's not forget, that it was Mike who created this site, and one of its most popular sections is the wanted/for sale area.
I can't imagine that turning this section of az into a pay as you use area being effective. I think the most important thing to consider is the amount of traffic generated in the for sale section, and revamping this only leaves the door open for our competitors.
If the powers that be choose to enforce a signature discretion code, I am all for it. Actually, I support and respect any and all management decisions here
on az.
My opinion, that's all.
Rg
CreeDo said:
I seldom notice a signature, whether it's an advertisement, or not. Most of the time, I skim through the messages to stay updated. If I feel the urge, I reply. A flashy signature will catch my attention, but usually only to frustratre me, when I'm reading the next post. I think some of the avatars actually bother me a lot more than any of the advertisement signatures I've seen.
And, I HAVE noticed the banners at the top of the page. I'm sure they probably do help the advertiser make a little more money, in the long run. Sometimes, there's that one company we keep promising ourselves we are gonna go check out and all of a sudden, we see a link to it. CLICK!
If this forum didn't allow the advertising, a lot of players and collectors would be spending more time on eBay and in other forums where sales are allowed, instead of spending their time here. And, what would be the point in having a Wanted/For Sale section, if you didn't really mean it?
I think if all the signatures were restricted to being text and links, that would be fine with most folks. It would still allow them to represent themselves and/or their companies or other companies they support, but not in a way that takes advantage of the forum and avoids banner prices for a banner ad.
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John Barton
New member
Jerry Forsyth said:
If a person is a part of the community and contributes to the shared knowledge and discussions then they bring value to the site. The forum exists as a draw because of the amount of content and knowledgeable posters.
If a person is not a part of the community and does not contribute then they should not be welcome to advertise.
It's the same in real life. If I hang out at a poolroom and get to know everyone and play in tournaments, get in action, and support the community then no one cares if I talk shop once in a while or hand out my business cards. But if someone comes in who only wants to sell things then they get run off pretty quickly.
However, online, sometimes the folks who start out thinking that they can just advertise are corrected and they then become valuable members of the community.
It is long accepted practice on forums and newsgroups to allow members to have signatures which advertise their businesses. It's give and take. They give you knowledge and perspective which adds to content and you allow them latitude to advertise.
As long as it's a two way street then it works. And it's really up to the forum owner and the community to judge it.
I have found out so much more about products and people by clicking on their signature links than I ever have by clicking on the banner ads. I click on the banner ads as well when a new thing rolls around that I don't know about but it's definitely hit and miss. The sig lines however get more interesting and attractive as the person posting does. When they continually provide good content then they deserve to get a look at what they do.
It's a pretty sure bet that the knowledge pool will diminish if folks aren't allowed to advertise what they do in signatures. The interaction between members that results from learning about each other will go down and so then will the community value. At least to me.
As a person who does advertise in all the forums as part of my involvement I have to say that it is neither an affront to the forum owners nor a revenue drain when prolific posters advertise from time to time and in their signatures.
I am much more likely to choose Tom Simpson as an instructor IF I know him. And often the forum is the only way to get to know someone.
Also, all forums are double edged swords, when an ad is placed in the form of a post then it is open to being ripped to shreds. Because this forum is for the free exchange of ideas it naturally follows that an advertisement must contain something of value for the community or it will be dismissed in the unfriendliest of ways.
I would not have known about Run Out Radio were it not for this forum. I rarely go to the AZ Billiards website for news. I stay here on the forum with my community.
Every contributer to this site is paying in time to keep it up and running. Without a large user base there is no incentive for advertisers to put ads here at all.
So I don't consider it freeloading. I consider it part of the free exchange of ideas. An ad is saying to the community that this is an idea that what I am offering has value - what do you think community? The community can respond with positive feedback, yes please, more of it. Or negative feedback, that sucks, price too high, gimmick. Or neutrally by letting the ad move down the list with no replies at all.
This is all powerful stuff for the person offering a thing to decide where to go next. Do I start doing banner ads, print ads, radio spots? Or should I work on my product more before taking that leap?
You can look at a forum as a kitchen where all members of the community contribute to the meal. Including the people with something to sell.
John Barton - seller of stuff