Should good pool players be barred from local tournements ?

[Ball Banger]

So just how much enjoyment do you and your friend get, beating those same "bangers" week in and week out?

Steve

Steve

There is a 30 some year old kid that gets so excited if he beats me in a tournament, he literally jumps up and down with joy. Now he is a good guy and I get a real kick out of setting him up to do this. I have won a few beers from side bets, so it is not a total loss.

Now my point is Local Bar Tournaments are meant to have fun. You get about the same table time in as league play, which isn't much.


Troy

I feel your pain and understand when the GOOD OLD BOY come into play. But that has been and always will be a fact of life. No one ever said life is fair.

 

[the420trooper]

A Short Stop once told me the better you shoot the less you get to play. Sorry but I have found that to be true.

That's one of the truest statements I've heard regarding improving at pool.

Most people only like to play people that they can beat...and they don't want to have to practice to be able to beat the other players.

When you start running racks, you'll find a lot of your "pool buddies" have something else to do that night.

I think it's sad that after years of practicing, matching up, and playing in every tourney you can find....When you finally get good enough to WIN, you're not allowed to play anymore.

 

[jensen_lover]

Down in South Louisiana we have a few places that just flat out bar good pool players from playing..some even have calcutta's...My thoughts have been the same for over 20 years...that the bigger the name the more money in the calcutta plus it's the cheapest way for up & coming players to play better players so they can see how the game can be played & they can use it as a learning experience...I believe that if it's mostly ball bangers or novices that whoever running the tournement could handicap said player to try and make it as equal as can be to all players..But to flat out BAR a player for being too good is just crazy in my eyes...Just asoon go to the bowling alley & pass out flyers saying we are interested in bowlers who would like to play in our pool tournement...Just was curious on everyone elses thoughts on the subject...To bar or not to bar...that is the question..thx...Troy

I used to play in Jamie's tournament. I would much rather gamble with strong players to learn their moves one on one. If Ricky, Sal, you know the others, played in the tournament I would not have.

 

[TWOFORPOOL]

Where I come from they bar the better players all the time - its called "B" Tournament. No open players allowed. The "B" players are working 40 hours a week and play pool for fun and try and get some money. They generally eat dinner and buy drinks at the tournaments they play in. The best Open players in my area don't work 40 hours a week and will generally not buy dinner at the bar or spend much on drinks. The best Open players are there strickly for the 1st place money so they can pay the rent. The bar owners don't appreciate the best Open players since they scare away the "B" players who spend money in their bar.

Bottom line is if the bar wants to run "B" tournament its fine with me. The bar needs to make money to keep their doors open. I work 40 hours a week and am considered an Open player and can't play in "B" tournaments but I understand the bars point of view.

 

[Fatboy]

Down in South Louisiana we have a few places that just flat out bar good pool players from playing..some even have calcutta's...My thoughts have been the same for over 20 years...that the bigger the name the more money in the calcutta plus it's the cheapest way for up & coming players to play better players so they can see how the game can be played & they can use it as a learning experience...I believe that if it's mostly ball bangers or novices that whoever running the tournement could handicap said player to try and make it as equal as can be to all players..But to flat out BAR a player for being too good is just crazy in my eyes...Just asoon go to the bowling alley & pass out flyers saying we are interested in bowlers who would like to play in our pool tournement...Just was curious on everyone elses thoughts on the subject...To bar or not to bar...that is the question..thx...Troy

i could be a little off here but 20 years ago and I believe to this day the Jointed Cue in Sacramento Ca(my all time favorite room) has a monday nite B tournment and a tuesday nite open tournent.

the formula best i can remember is if you win the B tournment you get to play for free on the open tournment on tuesday nite. I played in the B tournment and took 4th out of 25 players(it was long ago, i just know it wasnt 8-10 players), I was barred that nite-the pool room owner Terry Stonier(RIP) was my friend but he barred me from the B tournemnt permantly-he saw enough.


In the open tournment he changed the entry fee depending on how good a player was, I was at the bottom so it would have been $5(I never played in it), if Kim Davenport came in he was around $40-$50, what ever the cap was, the highest amount for champions. Solid A players paid $10-$20, so basically you layed odds if your a better player.


this was a great plan I thought as the B players had a shot at the open tournments cheap $5 or a shot at a good top heavy pay-off so if you won the B tournment you got paid, the C players didnt like it but they still played in it. It was awalys $5 to play in the B tournment as I remember.


This was years ago, so perhaps the $5 should be $10 these days, but it worked, as both nites had alot of players as a rule. I dont know whats going on there anymore, i miss that room.

 

[maha]

make the best players draw from the field and have someone who is their partner as a team who shoots every other shot. this way a banger gets to play with a champ and the champ chances are diminished although will still do quite well in the tournaments.

people in any sport lose interest if they never win and the same people do all the winning.

 

[Black-Balled]

Where I come from they bar the better players all the time ...Open players are there strickly for the 1st place money so they can pay the rent. ...

So just how much enjoyment do you and your friend get, beating those same "bangers" week in and week out?
Steve

About $100-600/ wk, when I was Ken. I ruined a few tourneys in the DC area...but I didn't need to get a job!

 

[the420trooper]

people in any sport lose interest if they never win and the same people do all the winning.

That's because the majority of pool players aren't willing to put in the work it takes to become great at this game...So they b*tch and whine about handicaps, and how the good players are taking all the money...

If it bothers them so much, why don't they PRACTICE, match up, etc...so they can become the guys that play really well?

Answer: It's easier to piss and moan than to become a good pool player. That doesn't mean that players who have learned to play through countless hours of practice should be punished by having to win 5-2 handicapped matches...

When I first started to play, I entered every tourney I could find, matched up even with better players, and practiced all the time. I lost everything for a solid 2 year span...

After a while, I got tired of losing, and dedicated myself to playing a better game instead of b*tching about the rolls.

As soon as I got good enough to win, action dried up, tourneys didn't want me to play...I'm lucky to find someone to play for a beer now, and I'm not even that good.

 

[Black-Balled]

...As soon as I got good enough to win, action dried up, tourneys didn't want me to play...I'm lucky to find someone to play for a beer now, and I'm not even that good.

That is very sad. Come to DC and I will play you for a beer. But we might have to share it.

Put that in your pipe and schmoke it.

 

[Tommy-D]

> I've had 5 different places specifically ask me not to come back to their 1-game or 2 out of 3 game bar tournaments,and had the players themselves stop showing up at 7-8 others.

On the other hand,I've had a few locally tell me that people complain about me by name,but they won't bar me,they just tell the others to play more and try harder.

One of these bars has a bartender that was a childhood friend of Buddy's wife,and that even if he showed up,he wouldn't be barred.

There were at least 5-6 different places up around Akron that posted flyers for local race to 3-4 tournaments that clearly said on the flyer "Chris Szuter and Chicken George (Kieselat) CAN NOT PLAY!"

I can see it from both sides. Tommy D.

 

[TWOFORPOOL]

That's because the majority of pool players aren't willing to put in the work it takes to become great at this game...So they b*tch and whine about handicaps, and how the good players are taking all the money...

If it bothers them so much, why don't they PRACTICE, match up, etc...so they can become the guys that play really well?

Answer: It's easier to piss and moan than to become a good pool player.QUOTE]



Most the extremely good players I know that spend countless hours of practice have the time since they don't have a 40+ hour a week job! This may be hard for you to believe but not everybody wants to become a world class player but loves the game for the game itself.

I started playing 35 years ago before handicap tournaments and I eventually entered the Open tournaments to get better. I have also spent alot of hours practicing and I do have a 40 hour a week job. I am considered an Open player and enter the Open tournamenst for the sole purpose to try and win. I love it when (on the rare occasion) I beat a full time pool player (semipro to pro level player). Its like telling him he should go get a job when a weekend ball banger like me can beat him is a race to 9.

 

[Big Perm]

That's because the majority of pool players aren't willing to put in the work it takes to become great at this game...So they b*tch and whine about handicaps, and how the good players are taking all the money...
If it bothers them so much, why don't they PRACTICE, match up, etc...so they can become the guys that play really well?
Answer: It's easier to piss and moan than to become a good pool player. That doesn't mean that players who have learned to play through countless hours of practice should be punished by having to win 5-2 handicapped matches...
When I first started to play, I entered every tourney I could find, matched up even with better players, and practiced all the time. I lost everything for a solid 2 year span...
After a while, I got tired of losing, and dedicated myself to playing a better game instead of b*tching about the rolls.
As soon as I got good enough to win, action dried up, tourneys didn't want me to play...I'm lucky to find someone to play for a beer now, and I'm not even that good.

420, many of us would love to put in the work.....but after 50+ work hours a week and family time, I get to play about 4-8 hours a week.....I would love to put in 30 or more hours, but priorities won't permit it.....our little weekly tournament draws some huge talent, guys that have placed high in open events....I'm just glad the races are to 3, at least I get a chance :grin:

Point is, I simply do not have nor will allot the time to play 30+ hours a week.....but I still like to compete....even with a handicap, my odds suck and I know I am donating, but every now and again the shots start dropping like they did when I was playing 30 hours a week years ago, and for that, it's worth it.....

I will play you for a beer amigo, come down for a visit and I will be happy to donate :grin:

 

[the420trooper]

That is very sad. Come to DC and I will play you for a beer. But we might have to share it.

Put that in your pipe and schmoke it.

I just have to drive 1500 miles to find a game for a beer? Ahhhh, it all seems worth it now...:grin::grin::grin:

Seriously, If I make it that way, I'll let you know I'm coming. I'd like to see if you're as crazy as some of your posts seem to be...

Put THAT in my pipe and schmoke it....

 

[houmatroy]

I see and agree with alot of points made !

This 1 place that i'm talking bout here..it's a weekly 8ball race to 2 tourney with a calcutta..they don't have any open tourney's just this 1 mostly...at most add a game or so...I'm not even 1 of the players barred...I just never got the whole thing of penalizing someone for putting the time n energy to excel in any sport...there's alot of shortstops that can beat even pro players race to 2 8ball in a tourney...I have done it more than once & when i look back and think of the years i use to play..those matches i remember more than actual tournements i won...There will never be a way to plz everyone..but there are ways to make the field more fair as to give eveybody a somewhat chance...let's face it..the bottom of the barrel will probally never win a tourney anyway but you can make it to where he at least enjoys his experience..& if they happen to win against a much greater player rather it's due to a handicap..that would be their trophy.

 

[enzo]

the answer to this question is really VERY VERY easy. it really is. we all sit around and wonder why pool goes nowhere, why you can't make anywhere near a decent living off it if you play good. guess what, we WE DISCOURAGE GOOD PLAY. we are the only sport that does this, and really the only sport in the gutter. you reap what you sew, and we all need to start thinking with a lot more logic when it comes to this stuff.

 

[mikeyfrost]

I'm just sayin if Carrie Underwood strolls into a bar's karaoke contest and takes the 1st place prize money one time it's cool she was there. If she showed up the next week, SHE'D BE SINGING BY HER DAMN SELF!

Back in my box.

 

[supergreenman]

Is she some sort of singing pool player?

 

[houmatroy]

I'm just sayin if Carrie Underwood strolls into a bar's karaoke contest and takes the 1st place prize money one time it's cool she was there. If she showed up the next week, SHE'D BE SINGING BY HER DAMN SELF!

Back in my box.

there's no way to handicap karaoke to make a even playing field unless maybe if you make Carrie have to take a bite of a moon pie & not swallow before she sings..lol:shrug:

 

[DRW]

Barring from Tournaments

Its been my experience the last couple of years of running two tournaments a week, if the same people win every week, the attendance starts dropping. This is with handicapping involved. I believe most of the people believe they had a chance, but after 10 tournaments out of the money, they become disenchanted. Some show up and set at the bar and watch, but don't play. Some wait for the last minute to see if so and so shows before entering. People just get tired of getting beat on.

 

[mikeyfrost]

there's no way to handicap karaoke to make a even playing field unless maybe if you make Carrie have to take a bite of a moon pie & not swallow before she sings..lol:shrug:

The real issue is why isn't there enough out there for a serious player to go get instead of having to reach into a banger's pocket. If there was enough out there for everybody we wouldnt have this discussion. The local pool rooms need to step up. It's not a bar's job to promote pool, there job is to pedal libations! Anything that happens at a bar is to promote people drinking and eating first, whatever is going on is secondary.

Don't blame the bar owner, blame the pool rooms and sports bars with 8 or more tables. That's the real issue. You know like I know, a good player can end a tournament single handedly. If I owned the business my loyalty is to the guys with a beer in one hand and a bar cue in the other...not the guy drinking a free glass of water ready to steal the 1st place dough.

The pool community needs to be self sustaining so Bobby Budweiser can take down a race to 1 double elim 8 ball tourney and pay half his tab. You have your pool player hat on Troy, take it off and think from the business perspective. You're a smart guy, I read your posts all the time, I think you do KNOW why, you just hate the reasoning behind it. We all do Troy but its a fact we must live with.

In NC one bar owner solved this problem really quickly. Half the money was paid in cash, the rest in bar credit...the good players didn't like that very much but the bar heads absolutely loved it, made em drink more!