Should there be full disclosure in PPV matches?
- Thread starter JCIN
- Start date
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About half the size of his post.
I have a different take on the stream organizers responsibility to the bettors.
Lots of bettors buy PPV's streams, which provides a very large and important revenue to the streamers.
No streamers -nor anyone- can control what a player/players will do during the heat of competition (quitting, conceding, dumping, arguing, fighting, etc...). Most bettors understand that.
But what the streamers can control is to make sure that the "advertised money" in the middle is what's being advertised. The amount of money being gambled between the two players definitely plays an important roll in how much side bets will take place ===> which play a big part into whether bettors will buy the streams or not.
For example the upcoming match between SVB/DO being advertised at 100k. The number of bettors (and PPV's buyers) would surely be much higher than if they were to play for, say $1000 (still a big amount).
So I do believe that the streamers have some degree of responsibilities to the bettors (and PPV's buyers) and to themselves, mainly in making sure that the money being wagered is what is being advertised.
Lots of bettors buy PPV's streams, which provides a very large and important revenue to the streamers.
No streamers -nor anyone- can control what a player/players will do during the heat of competition (quitting, conceding, dumping, arguing, fighting, etc...). Most bettors understand that.
But what the streamers can control is to make sure that the "advertised money" in the middle is what's being advertised. The amount of money being gambled between the two players definitely plays an important roll in how much side bets will take place ===> which play a big part into whether bettors will buy the streams or not.
For example the upcoming match between SVB/DO being advertised at 100k. The number of bettors (and PPV's buyers) would surely be much higher than if they were to play for, say $1000 (still a big amount).
So I do believe that the streamers have some degree of responsibilities to the bettors (and PPV's buyers) and to themselves, mainly in making sure that the money being wagered is what is being advertised.
I think there is a difference between a player pulling up in a tournament they paid to enter and a PPV they are being paid to be in. Neither of which has anything to do with the point of the thread...that being the promoter being honest about the product being sold.
Well said. A large percentage of people buying the streams are the people betting on the matches. Run the gamblers off and you won't sell many streams.
Fight Nights are 100% as advertised. Each man's team puts in an entry fee and one player wins it all.
So French says he closed deal "about 3 hours before the end of day 3"
Why close deal while they are still playing instead of after the match?
About 3 hours would mean between 2.5 to 3.5 hours before end of match
Match ended at 330am EST. Meaning French closed the deal between 12midnite to 1am EST
According to these updates http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=5391243 ,
12 midnite - Dennis 85-80 Ko to break (Ko just won 7 racks in a row)
1230am- Dennis 87-81
1am -Dennis 88-84 . Ko to break
Maybe French closed it during the long 15 minutes break from 130-145 am EST
During that break, Dennis was practising on table and Ko was walking around taking photos with audience
At the break, Dennis was leading 90-86
Either French got very excited watching Ko do 7 rack run on Dennis and immediately wanted to seal the deal or he was trying to shark Ko .
Of cos, I am just speculating. Maybe French is an eager newbie promoter and is unfamiliar with certain protocol/ etiquette
Why close deal while they are still playing instead of after the match?
About 3 hours would mean between 2.5 to 3.5 hours before end of match
Match ended at 330am EST. Meaning French closed the deal between 12midnite to 1am EST
According to these updates http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=5391243 ,
12 midnite - Dennis 85-80 Ko to break (Ko just won 7 racks in a row)
1230am- Dennis 87-81
1am -Dennis 88-84 . Ko to break
Maybe French closed it during the long 15 minutes break from 130-145 am EST
During that break, Dennis was practising on table and Ko was walking around taking photos with audience
At the break, Dennis was leading 90-86
Either French got very excited watching Ko do 7 rack run on Dennis and immediately wanted to seal the deal or he was trying to shark Ko .
Of cos, I am just speculating. Maybe French is an eager newbie promoter and is unfamiliar with certain protocol/ etiquette
Ok i guess im a dunce -i should OF posted something smarter. Can i run my posts by you first in the future?.
Seems to me, if someone is going to do something dishonest / deceptive...
they know it's sleazy already. Requesting that they disclose beforehand is not gonna work.
Like asking the robber "can you please put the gun away and step out for a second
so I can lock the door?"
French seems to be an action junkie, his super-excited hyperactive routine doesn't seem like an act to me.
His interest in whether Dennis made a tough shot, or even made a ball on the break, seemed sincere.
Therefore, unless he's just a really good actor and going the extra mile to fake people out,
I don't think it's likely there was a dump, or that we watched two guys play for $1000
'appearance money' or whatever.
He was definitely unwise to bring it up in the middle of the stream, and he's 100% annoying
to listen to in the booth, but I don't feel like there's any huge scam happening here.
And I totally believe he could watch a guy shoot well for a few hours, and decide on the spot
"HEY I SHOULD BACK THIS DUDE!!!". He seems to have that kind of personality. He seems like
the kind of guy who could spend thousands to back Dennis because he mistakenly believes
nobody else on earth is at the same level, then after a few hours he realized
"oh wow, this Ko Pin Yi dude IS on the same level."
they know it's sleazy already. Requesting that they disclose beforehand is not gonna work.
Like asking the robber "can you please put the gun away and step out for a second
so I can lock the door?"
French seems to be an action junkie, his super-excited hyperactive routine doesn't seem like an act to me.
His interest in whether Dennis made a tough shot, or even made a ball on the break, seemed sincere.
Therefore, unless he's just a really good actor and going the extra mile to fake people out,
I don't think it's likely there was a dump, or that we watched two guys play for $1000
'appearance money' or whatever.
He was definitely unwise to bring it up in the middle of the stream, and he's 100% annoying
to listen to in the booth, but I don't feel like there's any huge scam happening here.
And I totally believe he could watch a guy shoot well for a few hours, and decide on the spot
"HEY I SHOULD BACK THIS DUDE!!!". He seems to have that kind of personality. He seems like
the kind of guy who could spend thousands to back Dennis because he mistakenly believes
nobody else on earth is at the same level, then after a few hours he realized
"oh wow, this Ko Pin Yi dude IS on the same level."
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Since we are talking about full disclosure, I'd like to know what about the CSI 10b match between Shane and Ko where Ko won.
I know it was advertise as exhibition, but there was word that Ko's team had 20K on that match???
If that story is legit, I can easily see them backing Ko for 10K vs Dennis.
French staking Ko for DCC really has no effect on his play vs Dennis, IMO.
I know it was advertise as exhibition, but there was word that Ko's team had 20K on that match???
If that story is legit, I can easily see them backing Ko for 10K vs Dennis.
French staking Ko for DCC really has no effect on his play vs Dennis, IMO.
The people that bet on Ko in Vega$ back then are not with Ko for this trip and not backing him. I can tell you that for 100%.
And if someone bet on the side of an exhibition match, that doesn't change wha the streaming promoter portrayed you were watching. But if two players were to be gambling for $10k and it wound up really only be an exhibition, then something should have been said.
Did I hurt your feelings?
I think not just the DCC events but the action money matches in the background.
I recall that on day 3, throughout the whole day, french mentioned that he is adding someone to his team and will take anyone's bet that they cannot guess who it is.
I also remember him saying it's been 6 months in the works. Much different than the "last minute" deal he posted.
I really believe this was just a simple hiccup in trying to keep the match from falling through.
When I spoke to Mandy at Turning Stone, she explained that the Ko's were being backed by a close friend in Texas. Through all of this, and Mr French's explanation letter, there wasn't any mention of this Texas backer.
It all seems to me that the match was scheduled, the Ko's are here, and something happened to their backing. So French and Dennis decided to keep the match as scheduled, and French would back the Ko's for DCC.
Was there any money in the pot from Ko's original backer? Probably not, since the Ko's don't come off as nefarious or deceiving. They just want to play pool. And French is making it happen.
The rest was just a bad result of lacking PR skills.
This is all speculation on my part, except the point of the Texas backer. I do remember hearing about him.
When I spoke to Mandy at Turning Stone, she explained that the Ko's were being backed by a close friend in Texas. Through all of this, and Mr French's explanation letter, there wasn't any mention of this Texas backer.
It all seems to me that the match was scheduled, the Ko's are here, and something happened to their backing. So French and Dennis decided to keep the match as scheduled, and French would back the Ko's for DCC.
Was there any money in the pot from Ko's original backer? Probably not, since the Ko's don't come off as nefarious or deceiving. They just want to play pool. And French is making it happen.
The rest was just a bad result of lacking PR skills.
This is all speculation on my part, except the point of the Texas backer. I do remember hearing about him.