SJM at the Derby City Classic

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
I just got home from the Derby, so I’ll file this trip report.

I arrived Thursday night 1/18, and it was the first time I’d ever arrived the night before the Derby, usually arriving on the Friday. There wasn’t much to do that first evening. Although the action room was already going, I opted for an early night to prepare for the onset of the Derby.

Friday 1/19
The banks got underway, and nothing too dramatic happened on day one, possibly save Shannon Murphy’s unexpected loss to Josh Smith. Also, Justin Hall drew tough, falling to Glenn “Piggy Banks” Rogers.

The Bigfoot got rolling, too. Gomez eked out a win over Alcano, and Filler then knocked off Shaw, a minor upset, but Filler, who seemed to be in continual play in the action room, really played well and was the better man. Immonen played well to beat Orcullo and Hatch narrowly missed knocking out SVB in a double hill thriller. The Derby was off and running.

Saturday, 1/20
Banks continued. Chinakhov topped Joey Gray in a surprise and Tim DeRuyter, shockingly, gave Justin Hall his second loss. Jayson Shaw drew Immonen and beat him. Nobody saw Eric Krause’s solid win over Jason Miller coming, and Butch Wolf’s win over former Derby City Banks Champion John Morra was even more startling. Bustmante bested Glenn “Piggy Banks” Rogers, too.

In the Bigfoot, DeLuna bested Juszczyszyn and Gorst was rock solid in dismissing Pagulayan. Morra was too good for Van Cortezza, and Chinakhov came from way behind to best Deuel.

Sunday, 1/21
This was a most unusual day for me. I’m a big football fan and I didn’t want to miss the NFL conference championship games. Then again, I didn’t want to miss the Bigfoot either. I found a way to miss neither. I spent the day in my hotel room, using room service for my meals. I watched the two NFL games on my TV, and I BOUGHT the Accu-Stats stream so that I could simultaneously watch the Bigfoot. The negative was that I didn’t see any bank pool on this day.

In the Bigfoot, Gomez advanced to the semis by topping Filler, whose non-stop action may or may not have slowed him down --- tough to say, but Josh looked tired and played way below his usual speed. In a strange match, Immonen played exceptional pool against SVB up until the late stages of the match and then began to melt down, blowing chances to end it at both 10-7 and at 10-9, but SVB then had a shocking scratch on a routine eight ball and, mercifully, Immonen didn’t have to face a double hill match with Shane to break, so Mika moved on to the semis. Seventeen years old Fedor Gorst demolished DeLuna and Morra was too much for Chinakov, so the semis were set, and everyone left was guaranteed a payout of at least $4,000.

The straight pool event got started, and Orcullo had the only big qualifying run of the day, which I believe was 163, but I didn’t see it.

Monday 1/22
Banks was starting to move into the more significant rounds. Among those getting through Round 7 undefeated, were Brumback, Bergman, Runnels, Woodward, SVB, Jayson Shaw, Troy Jones, Corey Deuel, and two players with whom I was unfamiliar, Sidney Champion and Jalal Yousif.

In the Bigfoot, it was on to the semis in the afternoon. Immonen definitely had his chances against Gomez, but fell short, with Gomez on to the final. Gorst’s brilliant play continued with his drubbing of Morra. In the evening, many, myself included, reckoned that Gorst was a slight favorite against Gomez. The match delivered some great excitement. Though it had some slip ups on both sides, each player did some truly remarkable things along the way and the match reached double hill. At 10-10, Gomez had to bet the match on a very missable thin cut on the seven, and his superb shot ensured him the title. Great final!

In the Straight Pool, something strange happened. An extra $1,000 bonus was available to anyone who beat the previous Derby City Straight Pool high run record of 227, set by Jayson Shaw a couple of years ago. Orcullo stood on 227, with some hangers available, but unaware that he needed just one to win the bonus, he opted for a chancy shot with a jacked-up cue, and HE MISSED IT, failing to win the bonus. Still, it was quite a run.

One pocket had its players meeting and the early rounds began. Form held in the earliest stages of the event.

Tuesday, 1/23
It was the day of reckoning for the bank pool players, and those rising to the occasion included SVB, Brumback and Deuel, all of whom got through Round 10 undefeated. It certainly looked like one of them would win the banks, but worthy opponents still out there after round 10 included Bustamante, Woodward, Shaw and banks specialist Troy Jones. As it turned out, the last three standing would be Deuel, Brumback and Shaw. Brumback drew the bye, and Deuel’s win over Shaw set up the final, in which Brumback would have to win two sets to earn the title. Deuel, with a performance that had even Nick Varner oohing and aahing, saw to it that just one set was necessary, and Corey was the deserving, not to mention undefeated, bank pool champion.

Round 2 and Round 3 were the main fare in the one pocket event. Form was holding and continued to hold in early Round 4 action. It was hard to get a sense of who the ones to beat were to this point.

Straight Pool qualifying continued and John Schmidt managed 183, with Ruslan Chinakhov running a 182. The cream was rising to the top.

Wednesday 1/23
This was the day when the contenders emerged for the one pocket title. Through Round 9, the undefeated players, were Bergman, Daulton, DeLuna, Kiamco, and Orcullo, but Chohan, Bustamante and Thorpe still lurked.

Nine-ball had its players meeting and got underway. For the most part, the favorites all breezed through Round 1. In Round 2, Chinakhov was too much for Skyler Woodward, but once again, most of the favorites prevailed.

Straight pool qualifying ended. I’m not sure who the eight qualifiers for the single elimination stage were, but I believe they included Orcullo, Shaw, Schmidt, Chinakhov, Van Corteza and Fortunski.

Thursday, 1/24
One pocket was played in the afternoon, but the world came to a full stop for the One Pocket Hall of Fame dinner, and things began to fall further and further behind schedule. The one pocket final rounds, it turned out, had to be postponed until Friday, a decision that was to have unfortunate consequences.

Nine-ball forged ahead into the middle rounds, and the favorites continued to make their statements.

All hell broke loose in the straight pool as the tables needed for the quarterfinals were not made available to those running the event, and after the competitors discussed it, they decided to chop the money eight ways, a sensible but unfortunate decision that denied the fans of the game a chance to watch the top eight matching up against each other for the title.

Friday, 1/26
The afternoon featured the late rounds of one pocket, and Chohan, Daulton, Bergman and Bustamante were the last four standing. Bergman and Bustamante both had high finishes in the banks, so if either were to snap off the one pocket event, they’d become the one to beat for the all-around. In the semis, Bergman eliminated Daulton and Bustamante beat Chohan, a match in which he got very lucky. In rack four, Chohan needed four balls to end the match and Bustamante hung a five ball with several balls near Tony’s pocket, but Bustamante went up the table and back and caromed off Chohan’s balls without leaving a shot. It proved a match-deciding roll. Bustamante would not waste the opportunity it afforded him , beating Bergman in the final. Justin certainly had his chance, leading 1-0 in racks and 7-0 in balls, but a defensive mistake opened the door for Bustamante, who ran eight and out to seize the momentum in the match. Coupled with his fourth-place finish in the banks, the 54 year old Bustamante, by winning the one pocket event, became the man to beat for Master of the Table.

The banks ring game, which had been scheduled to begin at 8:00 PM, didn’t start until after midnight, and it really was a shame. I missed most of it, learning the next morning that Billy Thorpe was the winner.

Saturday, 1/27
The Derby’s final day is simultaneously uplifting and depressing, but it always delivers drama. This year would be no exception, as the nine-ball was to deliver some of the greatest drama ever seen at the Derby.

A critical match in Round 9 featured undefeated Chris Melling and undefeated John Morra, with Melling prevailing to become the last undefeated player. Melling had not been dominating at the Derby City 9-ball event, winning two 9-8 matches and two 9-7 matches through Round 10, but he was grinding away to the late rounds.

Living on the edge match after match always exposes one to a loss, and so it would be when Melling led Donny Mills 8-4 in Round 10. Mills missed in each of the next two racks but was rescued by a roll and, after that, Donny was brilliant to finish off Melling by 9-8, so everybody had a loss going into Round 11, with eight left. Chinakhov, Immonen, Mills and Filler were eliminated and they tied for fifth, leaving Morra, Melling, Orcullo and SVB to vie for the title.

Orcullo drew Melling and this proved to be one of the greatest matches ever played at the Derby. Trailing 7-6, after a brilliant lock-up safety by Orcullo, Melling faced a difficult two rail kick, and many of us felt that to even hit it would be a solid shot, but Chris wanted more. After lining it up (and you could see that he was lining up the kick-in) for what seemed an eternity, he confidently kicked it in and ran out. It is among the finest shots ever played at the Derby and the crowd went nuts. Following a break and run, Melling led 8-7. The next rack featured a long safety battle and Melling earned ball in hand. With the balls tied up in knots, Chris attempted a tricky combo on the nine but wasn’t up to it, so the safety battle continued. Dennis ultimately hit one of the best shots of the entire event, caroming the two in off the three to develop the three, but he failed to complete the runout, and Chris advanced to the final. Breathtaking!

SVB drew Morra and it was back and forth early, with SVB earning a 5-3 lead. On the verge of a runout to go up 6-3, Shane hung the seven. Arriving at the table down 5-3, Morra walked away from it with a 7-5 lead, as he had three straight break and run racks after capitalizing on the unexpected SVB error. Shane had one more chance, but his next miss closed the deal, and Morra advanced to the final where he would play Melling. Two amazing semifinals. Was there any way that the final could measure up to these two fine matches? As it turns out, the answer would be yes.

In the final, it was eerily simiilar to the SVB/Morra semifinal. Melling was about to take a 4-2 lead when he had a careless scratch on a seven ball. This time Morra, coming to the table trailing 3-2, would complete that rack and run five more, earning an 8-3 lead. Melling looked dead and buried. He kicked in the four and ran out in Rack 12 but still trailed 8-4. At 8-6, Morra appeared to be in command but went wrong on a very simple safety and Chris punished him. Melling’s double hill win at 3:30 AM ended the Derby and completed an electrifying evening of nine ball.

That’s all folks. Gomez wins 10-ball, Melling wins 9-ball, Bustamante wins 1-pocket, Deuel wins banks, Thorpe wins the bank pool ring game, and Bustamante is the Master of the Table. Sadly, there is no straight pool champion this year.

The Takeaways
The play was exciting, the experience was memorable, but in some ways, this was the worst Derby City Classic because of the extremely poor schedule management. The straight pool event fell apart, the one pocket finals were delayed by a full day, the bank pool ring game was played so late that few saw it, and the nine ball, as a result of all of this, went until 3:30AM on Saturday

There are a lot of kinks to work out for next year.

Socially
I caught up with a lot of friends and made some new ones, and if I saw you, it was a pleasure. If I missed you, I regret it. Hoping to do it again a year from now.
 
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Stu;

When you give a trip report, you do not spare much detail. :thumbup:

thank you for your excellent report.

it was clever how you managed your football/pool watching conflict. :)

And yes, too bad that the banks ring game was so late. I missed it.

Also, I did not know that Dennis missed out on a bonus over taking a hard shot instead of available hangers in his impressive straight pool run.

thx,
brian kc
 
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SJM
 
Great trip report as always. I was really puzzled by the schedule problems as there really haven't been issues with this for several years until this year. I wonder if the very large fields in all events were a factor?
 
Thank you

Thank you for a day to day report on the match play. Good idea on your Sunday NFL and live stream. Sounds like it was a lot of fun for you thanks again.
PS you did leave out what you ordered for room service.
 
Great trip report as always. I was really puzzled by the schedule problems as there really haven't been issues with this for several years until this year. I wonder if the very large fields in all events were a factor?

I sat with Greg Sullivan at the HOF dinner and he was pretty upset too.

To be fair, there were pluses and minuses this year that Stu kinda left out that told an important point.

This year there was record breaking number of entries in Banks and One Pocket and while 9 ball wasnt a new record it still had a great turnout. Remember that pool is dying so there is supposed to be less and less.:rolleyes: So the issue was really was NOT time management, it was just so many more matches.

Greg told me he really regretted not having room for more tables. He was pretty frustrated and you could see it on his face.

One thing they could do is eliminate the "action room" and put tournament tables in there. (My idea not Greg's)

Another point, back in the day when you had 200 entries and the payout was $50K (including a 10K added). Now in the events there are 400 entries and if you take 400 * $160 entry (banks)=$64,000. The payout is still $50K, where in the hell did the $10K added go, and where is the other $14K?

The One Pocket had nearly 400 (393). The entry and buyback was $200 each if you take the 400 * $200 = $80K. The payout was $52K. Again where was the "Guaranteed Added $15,000"?

The 9 ball is even worse. Assuming 400 players at $260 each, thats $104K. If you take the Guaranteed Added $25K, that would make $129K. Payout was $77.5K.

Start doing the math and it doesn't all work out to me.

Ken
 
... This year there was record breaking number of entries in Banks and One Pocket ...

Entries in those two events this year were essentially the same as in 2016, maybe a few less this year in 1P. 9-Ball was down a bit this year from 2016.

Another point, back in the day when you had 200 entries and the payout was $50K (including a 10K added). Now in the events there are 400 entries and if you take 400 * $160 entry (banks)=$64,000. The payout is still $50K, where in the hell did the $10K added go, and where is the other $14K?

The One Pocket had nearly 400 (393). The entry and buyback was $200 each if you take the 400 * $200 = $80K. The payout was $52K. Again where was the "Guaranteed Added $15,000"?

The 9 ball is even worse. Assuming 400 players at $260 each, thats $104K. If you take the Guaranteed Added $25K, that would make $129K. Payout was $77.5K.

Start doing the math and it doesn't all work out to me.

Ken

For your consideration:

1. The prize fund for each of the 3 events is calculated as the initial entry fee less a $10 registration fee (so $100 for Banks, $125 for 1-Pkt., $150 for 9-Ball) times the number of entries plus the guaranteed added money ($10k for Banks, $15k for 1-Pkt., $25k for 9-Ball).

2. Buy-back money does not go into the prize fund for the 3 events. Instead, it is used to fund the All-Around prizes ($25k) and for general operational expenses (you could include the $16k of Bigfoot added money in that).

3. Not everyone buys back. The percentage of buy-backs varies among the events and from year to year, but it is generally around two-thirds of the players (a bit higher for Banks). My estimate of the total buy-back money is around $60,000.

[Edit -- this is the way DCC views the "accounting," not necessarily how everyone else would.]
 
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I'd like to see the prize money payouts for all three divisions. Is it available anywhere?
 
As far as $ paid in vs $ paid out I would say Diamond does VERY well...as far as the players, in general as usual they are playing for peanuts in the big picture of things IMO
 

That was a great report Stu,

Once again it seems people are concerned about how much money the promoter makes. I hope he made enough to make it worth his while to keep having it.

I think there's an unwritten rule in Pool. " If it doesn't pay for itself then it doesn't exist." I think that rule might be why there isn't an organized Pro Tour but there's a few events here and there.

Pool is a bunch of Mom and Pops but I don't believe that anyone exist solely to rob players but the state of the game isn't drawing huge sponsorship's so that its flowing with cash either.

Real Estate, tables and labor are all real up front costs that are paid for before and event happens. If the guy doing it makes money and you can figure that up on a piece of paper, you probably haven't calculated the cost for venue, the tables, the labor for the setup and the whole year of planning that went into it. I wonder how much money he made on Tunica or if he got his money back?



As far as $ paid in vs $ paid out I would say Diamond does VERY well...as far as the players, in general as usual they are playing for peanuts in the big picture of things IMO
 
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What's the cost of the venue and tables? Without knowing that number or one close for overhead none of these cost arguments mean anything. Maybe the vendors are carrying that load....but maybe not.
 
I sat with Greg Sullivan at the HOF dinner and he was pretty upset too.

To be fair, there were pluses and minuses this year that Stu kinda left out that told an important point.

This year there was record breaking number of entries in Banks and One Pocket and while 9 ball wasnt a new record it still had a great turnout. Remember that pool is dying so there is supposed to be less and less.:rolleyes: So the issue was really was NOT time management, it was just so many more matches.

Greg told me he really regretted not having room for more tables. He was pretty frustrated and you could see it on his face.

One thing they could do is eliminate the "action room" and put tournament tables in there. (My idea not Greg's)

Another point, back in the day when you had 200 entries and the payout was $50K (including a 10K added). Now in the events there are 400 entries and if you take 400 * $160 entry (banks)=$64,000. The payout is still $50K, where in the hell did the $10K added go, and where is the other $14K?

The One Pocket had nearly 400 (393). The entry and buyback was $200 each if you take the 400 * $200 = $80K. The payout was $52K. Again where was the "Guaranteed Added $15,000"?

The 9 ball is even worse. Assuming 400 players at $260 each, thats $104K. If you take the Guaranteed Added $25K, that would make $129K. Payout was $77.5K.

Start doing the math and it doesn't all work out to me.

Ken

I may be in the minority, but if they did away with the action room I would probably stop going to the Derby.

Did you ask Greg these payout questions?
 
I may be in the minority, but if they did away with the action room I would probably stop going to the Derby.

Did you ask Greg these payout questions?

You are probably not in the minority, but maybe it could be moved somewhere else.

No didn't discuss payout with Greg. Just started looking at it over the weekend, and started putting numbers together.

IMO, while the buyback format is unique, I think everyone would be better off with a $200 double elimination entry. Then the fuzzy math might be cleared up a little.

Ken
 
What's the cost of the venue and tables? Without knowing that number or one close for overhead none of these cost arguments mean anything. Maybe the vendors are carrying that load....but maybe not.

I don't think it matters. I hope the guy made Plenty of Money so it continues to be a viable part of his business model. The other option is that people could become promoters and see for themselves how tough it is to get enough people in the door to make anything over and above the rent. Sure vendors pay and there is the door but I guess its for the customer ultimately to decide whether or not he goes.
 
I may be in the minority, but if they did away with the action room I would probably stop going to the Derby.

Did you ask Greg these payout questions?

I like the action room a great deal, but no streamed action room at the Horseshoe has always had 1 big problem in that it's really hard to sweat anything that's going on in there. It would be nice if there was somehow a creative solution that allowed for more tournament tables and an action/practice room that allowed folks to sweat some of these late night matches.
 
I like the action room a great deal, but no streamed action room at the Horseshoe has always had 1 big problem in that it's really hard to sweat anything that's going on in there. It would be nice if there was somehow a creative solution that allowed for more tournament tables and an action/practice room that allowed folks to sweat some of these late night matches.

Poolactiontv streams a dedicated action table all week...
 
I don't think it matters. I hope the guy made Plenty of Money so it continues to be a viable part of his business model. The other option is that people could become promoters and see for themselves how tough it is to get enough people in the door to make anything over and above the rent. Sure vendors pay and there is the door but I guess its for the customer ultimately to decide whether or not he goes.

Right on, brother. The whining about the prize money is unnecessary. The payouts are, more or less, known before the Derby and the field sizes don't vary greatly from year to year. Each and every competitor knows what it takes to succeed at the Derby and can, event by event, decide whether to invest the small entry fee into playing. Where can one play nine ball with a $160 entry fee and win $16,000 as Chris Melling did? He made 100 times his entry fee! Wow!

I hope Diamond is making a bucket load because I want this event to go on forever. Greg Sullivan has grown the event since its inception, when it was a three event festival of pool. Now, if you combine banks, one pocket, nine ball, ten ball, and straight pool, you get something really special, and Diamond adds significant money in all five events (admittedly, perhaps less than they claim). Throw in the banks ring game,the action rooms and the late night minis and the earning opportunities for the players are almost boundless.

As noted in my original post, my complaint is only with the scheduling, not with anything else. The Derby is a one of a kind event and is the highlight of the American pool calendar.
 
I don't think it matters. I hope the guy made Plenty of Money so it continues to be a viable part of his business model. The other option is that people could become promoters and see for themselves how tough it is to get enough people in the door to make anything over and above the rent. Sure vendors pay and there is the door but I guess its for the customer ultimately to decide whether or not he goes.

I'm on the same side, I don't think people should be bean counting in a vacuum. The players are not getting a terrible deal here and there is no better way to start the year out from a competitive standpoint.
 
Thanks. The postings here regarding the DCC are more thorough than anything posted on OnePocket.org. OnePocket.org has Ben kidnapped by a few regulars that have created a smal clique of old farts who, except for a few post ABOUT ONE POCKET, mumble amongst themselves about the mundane.
 
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