Sleeping in your car, a warning
- Thread starter jay helfert
- Start date
Jerry Forsyth
Well-known member
Jay,
Great escape theme music is playing in my head. I just wanted to pass a tidbit on that may help you know you did the right thing by not firing. When I was getting my CHL in Texas the instructor reminded the class of the costs of firing. "Even when you are perfectly in the right, assume that every round you loose will cost you $25,000. Because you WILL be sued by the family of whomever you shoot. Even though you will win, the court costs and the time involved, not to mention the hassle, will cost you about $25,000 per round. And while the police can unload thirty rounds into a perp and not be bothered, the courts look on an armed citizen quite differently. They will make a big deal out of "why did he keep firing?" and the more rounds you fire, the more it will cost you."
Also remember that firing a large-calibre handgun inside a locked car will possibly result in a concussion-related injuries to the shooter, something never mentioned in the movies. Fire a .44 inside a car and your eardrums will be a memory. A revolver emits burning powder that comes sideways out of the gun where the cylinder meets the barrel and if you are holding the gun across your chest and firing through the window you will get powder burns that can be severe, especially if your ammo is old or very cheap.
However, next time you might want to run over the punks. Wheel realignments are cheap.
Hope to see you soon Jay.
Jerry
Great escape theme music is playing in my head. I just wanted to pass a tidbit on that may help you know you did the right thing by not firing. When I was getting my CHL in Texas the instructor reminded the class of the costs of firing. "Even when you are perfectly in the right, assume that every round you loose will cost you $25,000. Because you WILL be sued by the family of whomever you shoot. Even though you will win, the court costs and the time involved, not to mention the hassle, will cost you about $25,000 per round. And while the police can unload thirty rounds into a perp and not be bothered, the courts look on an armed citizen quite differently. They will make a big deal out of "why did he keep firing?" and the more rounds you fire, the more it will cost you."
Also remember that firing a large-calibre handgun inside a locked car will possibly result in a concussion-related injuries to the shooter, something never mentioned in the movies. Fire a .44 inside a car and your eardrums will be a memory. A revolver emits burning powder that comes sideways out of the gun where the cylinder meets the barrel and if you are holding the gun across your chest and firing through the window you will get powder burns that can be severe, especially if your ammo is old or very cheap.
However, next time you might want to run over the punks. Wheel realignments are cheap.
Hope to see you soon Jay.
Jerry
jay helfert said:
Jay,
You did everything right on this one and still got an unlucky encounter. Pulling off the road when you are sleepy is the first thing. We lost our friend, Mexican Robert, years ago when he tried to get home after playing pool all night at the Stagger Inn.
Because I like to travel a lot, I too end up sleeping in my auto occasionally. And I too would have thought that pulling off at Elsinore would have been a good spot. Heck, I used to live there for a spell and never thought of the place as a dangerous town. But then, you never know.
Glad that you came out of it OK.
Jerry Forsyth said:Jay,
Great escape theme music is playing in my head. I just wanted to pass a tidbit on that may help you know you did the right thing by not firing. When I was getting my CHL in Texas the instructor reminded the class of the costs of firing. "Even when you are perfectly in the right, assume that every round you loose will cost you $25,000. Because you WILL be sued by the family of whomever you shoot. Even though you will win, the court costs and the time involved, not to mention the hassle, will cost you about $25,000 per round. And while the police can unload thirty rounds into a perp and not be bothered, the courts look on an armed citizen quite differently. They will make a big deal out of "why did he keep firing?" and the more rounds you fire, the more it will cost you."
Also remember that firing a large-calibre handgun inside a locked car will possibly result in a concussion-related injuries to the shooter, something never mentioned in the movies. Fire a .44 inside a car and your eardrums will be a memory. A revolver emits burning powder that comes sideways out of the gun where the cylinder meets the barrel and if you are holding the gun across your chest and firing through the window you will get powder burns that can be severe, especially if your ammo is old or very cheap.
However, next time you might want to run over the punks. Wheel realignments are cheap.
Hope to see you soon Jay.
Jerry
A very good point. LMAO though.
I have been robbed and stabbed and there is nothing funny about it at all.
It sounds as if Jay were lucky. Windows like that aren't that hard to break. Maybe it is lucky for them that it didn't break.
I'm like Jay, I also used to be a Scrapper, but am older now and much slower and have no intrest in doing all the HEALING anymore. I still get pissed when people won't leave me alone.
This is what I would have done...LOLz...turn 'em into speedbumps....Jerry Forsyth said:Jay,
Great escape theme music is playing in my head. I just wanted to pass a tidbit on that may help you know you did the right thing by not firing. When I was getting my CHL in Texas the instructor reminded the class of the costs of firing. "Even when you are perfectly in the right, assume that every round you loose will cost you $25,000. Because you WILL be sued by the family of whomever you shoot. Even though you will win, the court costs and the time involved, not to mention the hassle, will cost you about $25,000 per round. And while the police can unload thirty rounds into a perp and not be bothered, the courts look on an armed citizen quite differently. They will make a big deal out of "why did he keep firing?" and the more rounds you fire, the more it will cost you."
Also remember that firing a large-calibre handgun inside a locked car will possibly result in a concussion-related injuries to the shooter, something never mentioned in the movies. Fire a .44 inside a car and your eardrums will be a memory. A revolver emits burning powder that comes sideways out of the gun where the cylinder meets the barrel and if you are holding the gun across your chest and firing through the window you will get powder burns that can be severe, especially if your ammo is old or very cheap.
However, next time you might want to run over the punks. Wheel realignments are cheap.
Hope to see you soon Jay.
Jerry
do your homework
Actually having a gun is proven to lessen the danger for all concerned. Having concealed carry legal in a state reduces crime also because the would be bad guys no longer know who might be carrying.
Bringing this around to the real world, I owned an auto salvage and twenty-four hour wrecker service along with a few other businesses for awhile. A twelve gauge riot gun in the corner and a .357 under the counter made for much more reasonable customers when we needed to discuss something. The riot gun also reduced serious and petty theft around my place about 90%.
Carrying concealed allowed me to continue talking when apparently the disparity of force was very much against me. Twice I was in near riots, odds about sixty to one once and hundreds to one the other time. Carrying a .357 in a rig that made it almost impossible to prevent me drawing it let me continue negotiations long past where I would have acted first against those odds.
Here is a true story concerning what happens when guns come out. A friend had an interest in a used car lot. An irate customer came into the office brandishing a pistol. When he did five guns came out, two .45's, a .38 and two more. The customer apologized, put away his pistol, and settled down to very politely discussing the issues he had with the car he had purchased!
I could tell a half-dozen or dozen more personal stories of when a gun had a calming effect on a situation but I think you get the drift. Guns in the hands of good people will always be a good thing because the bad guys that smuggle in tons and tons of contraband will have no trouble smuggling in guns also if they are outlawed. The police interrupt such a tiny fraction of crime that they can only be seen as a reactive and somewhat preventive force. During a crime, you are on your on to defend yourself, your loved ones, your employees, and your customers. It is necessary to know when to shoot and when not to but judgment is required for most things.
Bottom line is that a gun has kept the proverbial poop from hitting the fan many times for me and over the years I have only had to produce one three or four times out of dozens of situations. A serious situation where armed men were stalking at my home came to a peaceful conclusion when I made known to people that I knew would get the word back to them that I was keeping an AR-15 by my bed and a twelve gauge handy. The bad guys don't want to get into fights with others with guns.
Hu
Actually having a gun is proven to lessen the danger for all concerned. Having concealed carry legal in a state reduces crime also because the would be bad guys no longer know who might be carrying.
Bringing this around to the real world, I owned an auto salvage and twenty-four hour wrecker service along with a few other businesses for awhile. A twelve gauge riot gun in the corner and a .357 under the counter made for much more reasonable customers when we needed to discuss something. The riot gun also reduced serious and petty theft around my place about 90%.
Carrying concealed allowed me to continue talking when apparently the disparity of force was very much against me. Twice I was in near riots, odds about sixty to one once and hundreds to one the other time. Carrying a .357 in a rig that made it almost impossible to prevent me drawing it let me continue negotiations long past where I would have acted first against those odds.
Here is a true story concerning what happens when guns come out. A friend had an interest in a used car lot. An irate customer came into the office brandishing a pistol. When he did five guns came out, two .45's, a .38 and two more. The customer apologized, put away his pistol, and settled down to very politely discussing the issues he had with the car he had purchased!
I could tell a half-dozen or dozen more personal stories of when a gun had a calming effect on a situation but I think you get the drift. Guns in the hands of good people will always be a good thing because the bad guys that smuggle in tons and tons of contraband will have no trouble smuggling in guns also if they are outlawed. The police interrupt such a tiny fraction of crime that they can only be seen as a reactive and somewhat preventive force. During a crime, you are on your on to defend yourself, your loved ones, your employees, and your customers. It is necessary to know when to shoot and when not to but judgment is required for most things.
Bottom line is that a gun has kept the proverbial poop from hitting the fan many times for me and over the years I have only had to produce one three or four times out of dozens of situations. A serious situation where armed men were stalking at my home came to a peaceful conclusion when I made known to people that I knew would get the word back to them that I was keeping an AR-15 by my bed and a twelve gauge handy. The bad guys don't want to get into fights with others with guns.
Hu
lazybum said:Everyone loves to have a gun it seems... you even mention that you need to carry a bigger one next time. All that I ask is that the readers of this thread (even the original poster) to re-read the original post and take note that a gun was never needed. Common sense easily took care of the situation with no bloodshed. If a gun was used, or even brandished, this situation would have turned out much, much worse.
This is proof of the often ignored fact that most all situations are resolved better without a gun. The use of, or showing of, a gun causes situations to explode. Cooler, more logical thinking is ignored because of fear. I know people can quote rare situations where a gun saved a life (of one person in the situation). All I ask you to consider is the numerous (majority of) situations where a gun causes everything to go bad.
Next time, leave the gun at home. There will be no temptation to use it and cause yourself and others unnecessary grief and suffering.
Please be gentle with your "my second amendment right," "better safe than sorry," and "out-of-control crime in this country warrants it" replies.
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jay helfert said:
Jay,
Wow, that made my heart beat fast just reading about it. Good work getting out of that mess.
Do you think they followed you from Temecula? Cash rich poker players would be a pretty good target for robbers. Maybe you should warn other poker players in that area.
The other issue is, you should report it to the police in Elsinore. It may be part of a string of these type of robberies and you might be able to help them ID the men.
Chris
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Here is one that might be useful sometime. It really happened to me. I was in a 3-piece suit, carrying an attaché case and walking through an alley to my car when a guy about 50 pounds heavier and a couple of inches taller braced me from behind. He said some thing to the effect that he needed $5.00 for gas to get home. It was obvious to me he was looking for more than that. I turned around, faced him and walked straight at him saying, “let’s go look at your car, perhaps I can help.” I think I startled him because he backed up and said something about I did not need to see his car. I just kept walking right past him and was in the street in less than five seconds. When I turned again he was gone and I walked into the building.
As noted above, using a weapon can cause you more trouble than its worth. In most situations you only need five seconds, a cool head, and some nerve. I was a recon marine and could have taken the guy down but why let his problem become my problem. Driving away was the best solution. To paraphrase an earlier post, -- what comes around goes around -- these guys usually get what they deserve, let them get straight with each other.
I have worked in many prisons as a forensic psych and I can tell you first hand, the last thing you want to do is spend time in any state prison. When I meet these guys in prisons and they tell me how insensitive and cold I am for a shrink, I tell them, “Welcome to my world. If you tick me off I will have five guys haul you to solitary while I watch.”
Because of my work there are many people who do not like me – that is putting it mildly, and I have no need to carry a weapon – a little pepper spray maybe, but no weapon. I value my freedom too much.
As noted above, using a weapon can cause you more trouble than its worth. In most situations you only need five seconds, a cool head, and some nerve. I was a recon marine and could have taken the guy down but why let his problem become my problem. Driving away was the best solution. To paraphrase an earlier post, -- what comes around goes around -- these guys usually get what they deserve, let them get straight with each other.
I have worked in many prisons as a forensic psych and I can tell you first hand, the last thing you want to do is spend time in any state prison. When I meet these guys in prisons and they tell me how insensitive and cold I am for a shrink, I tell them, “Welcome to my world. If you tick me off I will have five guys haul you to solitary while I watch.”
Because of my work there are many people who do not like me – that is putting it mildly, and I have no need to carry a weapon – a little pepper spray maybe, but no weapon. I value my freedom too much.
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I do want to say to everyone, if I get robbed by someone who is armed (actually showing a gun or knife) and I can't escape safely (like Jay did) , while my natural instinct is to fight them for it, my intellect tells me to just calmly give them my cash.
I usually average $100 - $200 in my wallet and I personally don't think it's worth getting shot or knifed over. Call the police and help ID the person. Eventually they'll get caught.
Just yesterday, in upscale Valencia, an off duty Sheriff saw two guys robbing a bank. He just happened to be shopping and looked into a bank and saw a guy with a gun. Even though he was armed and could have confronted them, he just kept an eye on them, got their vehicle description, and used his cell phone to give the info to the police. Before you know it, 4 swat teams had them surrounded in my neighborhood 10 miles away.
Chris
I usually average $100 - $200 in my wallet and I personally don't think it's worth getting shot or knifed over. Call the police and help ID the person. Eventually they'll get caught.
Just yesterday, in upscale Valencia, an off duty Sheriff saw two guys robbing a bank. He just happened to be shopping and looked into a bank and saw a guy with a gun. Even though he was armed and could have confronted them, he just kept an eye on them, got their vehicle description, and used his cell phone to give the info to the police. Before you know it, 4 swat teams had them surrounded in my neighborhood 10 miles away.
Chris
Jerry Forsyth said:However, next time you might want to run over the punks. Wheel realignments are cheap.
LMAO because I can picture the look on Jerry's face as he goes over the speed bumps.
I'll be sure to tell Tommy Kennedy this story next time I see him. I'm glad you got out out of there safely Jay.
Wow, close call, Jay! I'm glad you got out ok. They had no way of knowing you just came from a poker tournament, did they? They just saw the nice car and a guy asleep and thought it was an easy opportunity.
I have never even seen a real gun, except for my BB gun I had as a kid and I don't really want to either. Every time I got robbed, I wasn't at home, so then they probably would have gotten my gun too.
It is scary knowing that so many people with hair-triggerp ) tempers carry guns. Mike calms me down every once in awhile when I want to push a point, because he is scared they will have a gun or knife.
I pull over all the time, when I am alone, to sleep. I have a convertible, so I guess it would be really easy to slash the roof, which I guess is another reason to not have a gun, because they could steal it when I'm not in the car too.
Once, I took my daughter (before she was old enough to drive) over to her boyfriend's family's house. They lived about 2 miles from me and in a very nice neighborhood. I knew that she would only be 30-45 minutes or so, so instead of driving home and not having time to do anything and then have to get back in the car and go get her, I stayed parked on the opposite side of the street and napped.
I was wakened by a tapping on the window with a flashlight in my face. The house that I had parked in front of was owned by a little Asian lady and she had gotten worried and called the cops. Boy, was it embarrassing when they hauled my daughter and her boyfriend out and the rest of his family followed suit and everyone was out on the lawn, including the little Asian lady.
I don't believe in violence, but this is a violent society in America. It's getting harder and harder to maintain a peaceful stance with the rest of the law-abiding citizens.
I have never even seen a real gun, except for my BB gun I had as a kid and I don't really want to either. Every time I got robbed, I wasn't at home, so then they probably would have gotten my gun too.
It is scary knowing that so many people with hair-trigger
p ) tempers carry guns. Mike calms me down every once in awhile when I want to push a point, because he is scared they will have a gun or knife. I pull over all the time, when I am alone, to sleep. I have a convertible, so I guess it would be really easy to slash the roof, which I guess is another reason to not have a gun, because they could steal it when I'm not in the car too.
Once, I took my daughter (before she was old enough to drive) over to her boyfriend's family's house. They lived about 2 miles from me and in a very nice neighborhood. I knew that she would only be 30-45 minutes or so, so instead of driving home and not having time to do anything and then have to get back in the car and go get her, I stayed parked on the opposite side of the street and napped.
I was wakened by a tapping on the window with a flashlight in my face. The house that I had parked in front of was owned by a little Asian lady and she had gotten worried and called the cops. Boy, was it embarrassing when they hauled my daughter and her boyfriend out and the rest of his family followed suit and everyone was out on the lawn, including the little Asian lady.
I don't believe in violence, but this is a violent society in America. It's getting harder and harder to maintain a peaceful stance with the rest of the law-abiding citizens.
Voodoo Daddy
One Pocket 101
Jay...you did the right thing by leaving before it got ugly. Maybe running the lil bastid over first would have crossed my mind before leaving. If he had a weapon, you would have seen it immediately. The old "hide my hand under my shirt" is an old play for the youth on the streets. Brandashing your wheelgun might have had him going in a totally different direction. The choice of weapon is up to you but I know the two noises in LIFE that make me instantly sweat...one is the sound of a 12 gauge pump and the other is my wifes giggle running out of the shower
I think I'm going to mount Claymores(m-18A1) to the undercarrage of my Truck. I that should work, Hopefully.
-Vinnie
-Vinnie
Sweet Marissa
www.Bella-Muse.com
What a scary moment! I've driven out of town by myself many times, and often pull over in a closed gas station to nap. Not again after this story, though. Thank goodness you're okay!
Glad to hear a happy ending to this incident, Jay. You make a good decision and used your best weapon, your 2k pound vehicle. If they had broken a window, just pointing your .22 at them would have probably ended it. No need for all the hassle of interviews and paper work if it can be avoided following a shoot-out. Maybe more, since I don't know your state laws. But if they had a weapon I'm guessing you would have seen it come out.
In some states the victim cannot be sued by the thug's family following a good shoot. As to pepper spray, it will not work in every case, especially on a druged up thug. A plan B is needed, meaning the largest caliber available at the time. And, of course, if the thug has a weapon, forget the spray, then it's shoot 'em to the ground plan B.
In some states the victim cannot be sued by the thug's family following a good shoot. As to pepper spray, it will not work in every case, especially on a druged up thug. A plan B is needed, meaning the largest caliber available at the time. And, of course, if the thug has a weapon, forget the spray, then it's shoot 'em to the ground plan B.
jay helfert said:
I would have missed it if you had posted it in NPR. Thanks. It was a good wake up call. I too have pulled over after becoming too fatigued to drive.
Ending someone's life because they were trying to rob you might be justifiable to some but you did the right thing based upon your circumstances. I bet that the mother of that boy would thank you for not killing that piece of shit. Some people are pretty desperate out there and now with your warning pool players all over the world will think twice about where they pull over to snooze.
JoeyA
Jay, Lake Elsinore is a haven for tweakers.
Next time carry a mag 44 or .357.
No lead on the shells. The muzzle fire and loud bang ought to scare them.lol
But, glad u came out ok.
Next time carry a mag 44 or .357.
No lead on the shells. The muzzle fire and loud bang ought to scare them.lol
But, glad u came out ok.
JimS said:
About two years ago, I stopped at a WalMart in New Orleans one early morning (it's an 24/7 Walmart) about 4:30 a.m. on the way to do some fishing and as I was leaving the store, an elderly gentleman discreetly warned me that there had been some robberies in the parking lot and that I should be VERY careful. You just never know where criminals are going to decide to set up shop next.
JoeyA