Speaking of black players-Hear me out on this one!

Walt Frazier

Walt Frazier

Banned
I think it is a shame that great players like James Evans and Cisero Murphy were denied entries to major tournaments because of skin color .I could only imagine the impact that these great players could have made on a national/official stage.Many old timers has told me that Mr. Evans was every bit as good as Greenleaf .But unfortunately,there is little(if any) biographical information available on him at all.

Also players like Youngblood and Cannonball intrigue me.As well as Marvin Henderson and Tugwell(before the wreck)These guys were flat out champions! warriors that did not get their collective "just due"

It makes me proud as a black man to know that Bugs had a chance to get his day in the sun(thanks to steve and the good folks at 1pocket.org) and although strawberry,youngblood and cannonball were not there physically,I know they were there in spirit ..
 
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Walt Frazier said:
I think it is a shame that great players like James Evans and Cisero Murphy were denied entries to major tournaments because of skin color .I could only imagine the impact that these great players could have made on a national/official stage.Many old timers has told me that Mr. Evans was every bit as good as Greenleaf .But unfortunately,there is little(if any) biographical information available on him at all.

Also players like Youngblood and Cannonball intrigue me.As well as Marvin Henderson and Tugwell(before the wreck)These guys were flat out champions! warriors that did not get their collective "just due"

It makes me proud as a black man to know that Bugs had a chance to get his day in the sun(thanks to steve and the good folks at 1pocket.org) and although strawberry,youngblood and cannonball were not there physically,I know they were there in spirit ..
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As a black man who contributes to a large audience, like the AZ, maybe you could take it upon yourself to educate us on the accomplishments of former black greats at the billiard and pool tables of yesteryear. It sounds like you have a at least a strong interest, and already are off to a rip snorting good start.
 
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Those were very terrible times, this era in American history, and pool, like other sports, was no different when it came to discrimination due to the color of one's skin.

Here in D.C. in 1968, it was a terrible time growing up for me, but I have a memory of the Martin Luther King riots, which I saw up front and close, that I will never forget when I witnessed James Brown making a speech to hundreds of thousands angry citizens on Capitol Hill.

I was already a huge fan of James Brown at the time, and when I saw him speak his words of wisdom, it had a calming effect on all those in attendance. It was a miracle, I tell you.

When he sang, "Sing it loud, I'm black and I'm proud," the crowds erupted in loud cheers and dance. It was a bright moment during those riots, and in a way, I believe this small moment helped to move things in a better direction, at least here in my neck of the woods. :)

Just hearing him still gives me happy feet! :D

There will NEVER be another one like the King of Soul. Man, could he dance: http://youtube.com/watch?v=XgDrJ5Z2rKw

JAM
 
I have no problem playing a black player..... some of hte best pool my eyes ever seen live were from a black player.........Eddie "The Mouth" Brown up in N.O. .......Man that dude can shoot.......

There were quite a few other black players in New Orleans I watched I would wanna gamble with......especially one quite older gentlemen that was slammin side and banks and 3 railers all over the table......was quite interesting..


Ok back to topic........ Yea it is kinda sad.......but you know times have changed
 
Walt

You're black, really?? I thought you were a human being, just like me ... LOL
which we all are before being any color ... Maybe that's why I have many friends of all colors ....

Although, you do have a tendency to be ever so slightly dramatic at times :D

And I am going to mention 2 black friends of mine that play jam up, but are only known locally:

James Hadley (Good friend)
Reese Wilson (run leagues for years, plays a real solid game)
 
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Blood is still alive

Walt Frazier said:
I think it is a shame that great players like James Evans and Cisero Murphy were denied entries to major tournaments because of skin color .I could only imagine the impact that these great players could have made on a national/official stage.Many old timers has told me that Mr. Evans was every bit as good as Greenleaf .But unfortunately,there is little(if any) biographical information available on him at all.

Also players like Youngblood and Cannonball intrigue me.As well as Marvin Henderson and Tugwell(before the wreck)These guys were flat out champions! warriors that did not get their collective "just due"

It makes me proud as a black man to know that Bugs had a chance to get his day in the sun(thanks to steve and the good folks at 1pocket.org) and although strawberry,youngblood and cannonball were not there physically,I know they were there in spirit ..
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Javenly Youngblood Washinton is still alive. He is in a nursing home but nobody knows where. There is a photo of James Evans in Minnesota Fats book, The Bank Shot and other great Robberies. George Rotation Slim Hairston was also a great player and Paul Detroit Slim Graham played about as good as anybody. Detroit Slim played someone I knew 10 or no count 1pkt on a 5 x 10 table. The famous sweator Sylvestor from Chicago is probably the official curator of Black pool history. He can be reached at Red Shoe Billiards in Alsip, IL.

the Beard
 
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Snapshot9 said:
You're black, really?? I thought you were a human being, just like me ... LOL
which we all are before being any color ... Maybe that's why I have many friends of all colors ....

Although, you do have a tendency to be ever so slightly dramatic at times :D

And I am going to mention 2 black friends of mine that play jam up, but are only known locally:

James Hadley (Good friend)
Reese Wilson (run leagues for years, plays a real solid game)
Click to expand...

Yes I am black,but I am not a human .I am a mutant!:)
 
Yes, racial injustices were as evident in pool as anywhere else at one time. John McHenry, the poolroom owner/player/road manager from Chicago who first took Bugs on the road hangs out here in Detroit at Hall Of Fame Billiards. Although he's 77 years old he can still play a mean game of One Pocket, recently defeating Tony Chohan with 3 hit and the pick. He talks all the time about Bugs, Youngblood, Marvin, and all the other African American players from years ago. Unfortunately, John Henry doesn't read these threads. He has to be told about them but they seem to please him very much. No compilation of the history of black players in the last few decades would be complete without talking to him. I can get in touch if anyone wants to reach him...Tom
 
Walt Frazier said:
I think it is a shame that great players like James Evans and Cisero Murphy were denied entries to major tournaments because of skin color .I could only imagine the impact that these great players could have made on a national/official stage.Many old timers has told me that Mr. Evans was every bit as good as Greenleaf .But unfortunately,there is little(if any) biographical information available on him at all.

Also players like Youngblood and Cannonball intrigue me.As well as Marvin Henderson and Tugwell(before the wreck)These guys were flat out champions! warriors that did not get their collective "just due"

It makes me proud as a black man to know that Bugs had a chance to get his day in the sun(thanks to steve and the good folks at 1pocket.org) and although strawberry,youngblood and cannonball were not there physically,I know they were there in spirit ..
Click to expand...

Walt,

It may be true that the top black players of yesteryear were denied entry into the big Straight Pool tournaments of their era. But the tournament scene was not where it was at anyway. It was in all the action rooms across the country. And my recollection was that the best black players were NOT barred! All they needed to do was bring their cue and some money.

I saw Marvin, Youngblood (James Brown), Nate, Gabby, Iceman, Shake and Bake, Texas Shorty, Cecil, Rags and many more gamble and win in predominantly white poolrooms. To us, they were just players, not black or white. I'm sorry, but I didn't see the discrimination which you refer to, in the poolrooms I hung out and gambled in. To me the poolroom was neutral territory, open to any and all regardless of skin color or nationality. I saw Asians gamble with blacks and Yankees gamble with hillbillies. And everyone trying to match up with everyone else.

Race was just not an issue! The only thing that ever mattered was how good did someone play. I gambled with Cecil, Gabby and Youngblood and hung out with Marvin. We were all poolplayers. Cicero was a dear friend of mine. One of the best men I ever met. And so was Rags. I got him on the Legends show. I'm sorry that I didn't know Bugs and Strawberry better. I'm sure we would have been buddies too.

As far as I'm concerned poolrooms have always been non denominational, where anyone can play and no one is barred. People were judged by how they acted, not how they looked.
 
jay helfert said:
Walt,

It may be true that the top black players of yesteryear were denied entry into the big Straight Pool tournaments of their era. .
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Jay,the only mention of discrimination I was referring to was what I quoted from you above .I am by no means saying that the pool world is anti-black or anything like that .

I know very well that black players like gabby,bugs,cecil,nate,disco-danny,marvin,strawberry,patch-eye,bug-eye,slim,chilli,shake and bake and several more I cannot think of(I'd be here all day) were avid gamblers that were welcomed to engage in action regardless of their skin color .I know very well that the only color in the pool room is green .I have gambled for years with whites and have never had the subject of race even come up .

I think you misinterpreted the jist of my post Jay .In no way,shape,or form would I ever incenuate that the pool community is racist .I don't even see color .My thoughts about racism as relates to pool refer specifically to the early days of Evans in straight pool tournies and that's it!
 
Walt

It should be noted that Cisero never complained about his disclusion in major events. He would just dismiss it and say that "they were just scared to lose to me and they all knew that they would lose to me. When they let me in, it was just time to get it overwith."

The other players protested his disclusion - and the next year he was allowed to play. He went on to win decisively, and at that time the Straight Pool World Championships took weeks to complete.

Here is link to something I wrote about my good friend and mentor..

Remembering Cisero Murphy

and here is a great picture...

cicero_murphy-1.jpg
 
Smorgass Bored said:
Those are both great, but James Brown and Eddie Murphy have nothing on these moves: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zc2908P7bs
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OMG, that bug guy! And in the end, he got the girl! :eek:

BTW, Happy Belated Birthday, Smorgie. Hope it was a good one! :)

I actually used to be quite the dancer, growing up during the Motown era, and I knew all the moves, the Penguin, the Tighten Up, the Four Corners, the Alligator, the Jerk, and the Grapevine.

Enjoy this tune, from one of the most progressive bands in its time, and get you some happy feet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKHiJazGBXI

JAM
 
Blackjack said:
Walt

It should be noted that Cisero never complained about his disclusion in major events. He would just dismiss it and say that "they were just scared to lose to me and they all knew that they would lose to me. When they let me in, it was just time to get it overwith."

The other players protested his disclusion - and the next year he was allowed to play. He went on to win decisively, and at that time the Straight Pool World Championships took weeks to complete.

Here is link to something I wrote about my good friend and mentor..

Remembering Cisero Murphy[/URL




and here is a great picture...
Click to expand...



I knew that blackjack . Cisero was a phenomenal human being,plain and simple.
 
tpdtom said:
...Unfortunately, John Henry doesn't read these threads. He has to be told about them but they seem to please him very much. No compilation of the history of black players in the last few decades would be complete without talking to him. I can get in touch if anyone wants to reach him...Tom
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Tell John Henry that Geese's "ex-old lady" says hi! That's the only way he'll be likely remember me. :o

If he can make it to Louisville in January, it would sure be GREAT to reminisce about the old battle stories in Maryland. I would love to see that smiling face of his again! Tell him I might even play him some, if he gives me 9 to 1! :D

John Henry on the right! :p

JAM
 

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Unfortunately, there is so much about our beloved game that has been lost to history. We probably have no idea who the greatest was because most pool is played locally. I'm sure there have been many champion caliber players that never came out of the woodwork and hit the road for whatever reason (race discrimination, financial liability, etc.) It's really sad.

As treasured as the stories Freddy, Billy, Jay, Grady, etc. are to us, we are probably just seeing the tip of the iceberg.

Even the admitted greats of yesteryear are slowly being forgotton. Two years ago, Maurice Daly was put up for induction into the BCA Hall of Fame. Anyone know anything about him off the top of your head?

Here's a picture of a "colored only" billiard hall in Tennessee, circa 1939.
 

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I am a black man that plays pool.The problem with these kinds of post's is we live in a country that started off with some problems.That was then and this is now can we all just let the past be the past.I do not see any one for the race they are but the kind of person they are and this is how it should of been and should be.
I think it is true that some players never got there chance to show how good they were but can we please move on with things.
 
shark3149 said:
I am a black man that plays pool.The problem with these kinds of post's is we live in a country that started off with some problems.That was then and this is now can we all just let the past be the past.I do not see any one for the race they are but the kind of person they are and this is how it should of been and should be.
I think it is true that some players never got there chance to show how good they were but can we please move on with things.
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Tap Tap Tap
 
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