Statement from LP Custom Cues

You know Lee started this thread with a very admirable explanation about why he was stopping and everyone would be taken care of.

And now it seems we have another cue-maker accused of screwing his customers.
I don't know that to be true but just the allegation is incriminating but with specific accusers coming forth, it doesn't look good for Lee.

Let's see....Tony Zinzola......Prulhiere.......Now Lee (LP Custom Cues).........isn't it time for a new section on the Forum for Cuemaker Feedback.
It should be alphabetically arranged by cue-maker name and any cue-maker's customer can post complaints about the cue-maker which would be chronically listed.

Any Azer could check to see whether the cue-maker was doing well or really bad and could then avoid getting involved with anyone that appeared shady or delivered
a poor quality cue or terrible customer service etc. I know I'd find that information not only interesting, but informative and helpful.

Villagers Everywhere Unite.....light the torches......let's drive these monster cue-makers off the Forum and out of business entirely.before more innocent people get scammed.
If Lee did what he's accused of doing, he deserves nothing but condemnation from everyone.
I f he hasn't, he needs to deal with his accusers right now and don't use "any" excuses......none would be acceptable.......stealing is wrong regardless of the criminal's motives.
 
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It's good to consider the feelings and opinions of others - but when you get right down to it - taking care of yourself (physically and mentally) is your key to a good life.

Good luck and long life.
 
I feel bad for Lee and any health problems that he may be having to deal with, but............

I cannot in any way approve of anyone who has taken large amounts of money as partial/full payments for a cue order and NOT have a way for that customer to contact you. Even if you are terribly ill, you could arrange for someone to be your liaison to take care of communications while you are healing. To keep a persons money without delivering a product in a reasonable amount of time of the promised date, well, that customer should either be personally contacted by Lee (or a representative of his), or have their money refunded.

Silence is NOT golden in a case like this.

There are a few posters on this thread that if I were one of them, I would be pi$$ed off too!!!

Just my opinion, yours may be different!!!

Maniac
 
I'm still patiently waiting. I gave lee $450 on October 26 of 2011 as a partial payment. He told me August of 2012 as a completion date. I've tried emailing him twice since August of 2013 and have got no reply....yet. I still have hope, but its dwindling. :(
 
You know Lee started this thread with a very admirable explanation about why he was stopping and everyone would be taken care of.

And now it seems we have another cue-maker accused of screwing his customers.
I don't know that to be true but just the allegation is incriminating but with specific accusers coming forth, it doesn't look good for Lee.

Let's see....Tony Zinzola......Prulhiere.......Now Lee (LP Custom Cues).........isn't it time for a new section on the Forum for Cuemaker Feedback.
It should be alphabetically arranged by cue-maker name and any cue-maker's customer can post complaints about the cue-maker which would be chronically listed.

Any Azer could check to see whether the cue-maker was doing well or really bad and could then avoid getting involved with anyone that appeared shady or delivered
a poor quality cue or terrible customer service etc. I know I'd find that information not only interesting, but informative and helpful.

Villagers Everywhere Unite.....light the torches......let's drive these monster cue-makers off the Forum and out of business entirely.before more innocent people get scammed.
If Lee did what he's accused of doing, he deserves nothing but condemnation from everyone.
I f he hasn't, he needs to deal with his accusers right now and don't use "any" excuses......none would be acceptable.......stealing is wrong regardless of the criminal's motives.
Great idea!
It`s quite a few posts about cuemakers not delivering as promised and there is also great cuemakers that deliver on time and make great products at very reasonable prices.
A alphabetical list of cuemakers and the ability to comment on good or bad experiances would hopefully save many AZ`ers from loosing their hard earned money.
 
Great idea!
It`s quite a few posts about cuemakers not delivering as promised and there is also great cuemakers that deliver on time and make great products at very reasonable prices.
A alphabetical list of cuemakers and the ability to comment on good or bad experiances would hopefully save many AZ`ers from loosing their hard earned money.

Should cuemakers do the same with deadbeat customers? We rarely hear about that side of the coin...
 
Sure....why not have a section called "Deadbeats" but aren't customer cancellations and unpaid cue order balances that can't be collected.....aren't those part of the cue-maker's cost of business like it is with every other business I've ever known. It's called Accounts Receivable - Allowance For Bad Debt".

Let's please keep the thread discussion focused on dishonest cue-makers or in this case, complaints about Lee Pepper, that are increasing in number since the thread started. No one has questioned that cue-makers have to deal with bad debt as the ordinary cost of doing business like every firm must do. If the cue-maker is experiencing dead beat customers, what's the cue-maker doing to invite this? Perhaps the cue-maker should get a credit card guaranteeing the total build cost or ask for a 50% down payment and also get progress payments so that 80-90% of the cue is paid before he completes the build. Isn't the cue-maker going to require 100% payment before he ships the cue? Dishonest cue-makers are much more serious and important to Forum readers that it is to learn which AZers are deadbeats and are not to be trusted on a cue sale. Isn't that what iTrader is supposed to be used for?

Back to the pertinent issue of dishonest cue-makers or bad cue-makers. If a cue-maker becomes apprehensive over what will be posted about his cue workmanship or business demeanor, then maybe the cue-maker needs to objectively evaluate his output and implement more stringent quality control measures or change his cue-making technique or equipment. If it's the cue-maker's business approach, i.e, poor service, unresponsive, etc. then the cue-maker needs to hear it and see it so he can become more customer & service oriented. If the cue-maker is dishonest like the ones being discussed on the Forum, then they need to be driven off the Forum and out of business entirely.......There is no room for crooks in this world.

I am not one of Lee's accusers and do not have any skin in this game. But the longer this continues and goes unresolved, the worse Lee Pepper makes needlessly more difficult for other cue-makers that do want to remain in business making high quality cues. His silence and being unavailable are more than incriminating just based upon his original post.....a few excerpts appear below:

"I have decided that once the cues I have started are finished, I will be selling all my equipment and get out of cuemaking totally.".........and he also stated ............."With that being said, all current orders for cues will be finished in a timely manner. It may take a little longer that quoted. I WILL NOT sell any equipment until the last cue is out the door. out of their moneyeen cheated"

Lee's words now fall on deaf ears and are totally worthless to his accusers. People have been cheated and had money stolen.............unless all these posts are bogus which I do not believe they are. The same thing started with Tony Zinzola and now the SOB would be lynched and burned in effigy for his dishonesty. It's sure looking that Lee Pepper is no different than Tony Zinzola.
 
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hey FONGOUL...

in keeping with AZB tradition and rules all i can say about you is:

WHAT A WONDERFUL, REMARKABLE AND LIFE SAVING PERSON YOU ARE!

WE ALL SO APPRECIATE YOUR MIND, FEELING AND INTELLECT!

have a nice day,
smokey

p.s. you are a living example of your nom de plume

Sure....why not have a section called "Deadbeats" but aren't customer cancellations and unpaid cue order balances that can't be collected.....aren't those part of the cue-maker's cost of business like it is with every other business I've ever known. It's called Accounts Receivable - Allowance For Bad Debt".

Let's please keep the thread discussion focused on dishonest cue-makers or in this case, complaints about Lee Pepper, that are increasing in number since the thread started. Jamie, No one is questioning that cue-makers have to deal with bad debt as the ordinary cost of doing business like every firm must do. If the cue-maker is experiencing dead beat customers, what's the cue-maker doing to invite this? Perhaps the cue-maker should get a credit card guaranteeing the total build cost or ask for a 50% down payment and also get progress payments so that 80-90% of the cue is paid before he completes the build. Isn't the cue-maker going to require 100% payment before he ships the cue? Dishonest cue-makers are much more serious and important to Forum readers that it is to learn which AZers are deadbeats and are not to be trusted on a cue sale. Isn't that what iTrader is supposed to be used for?

Back to the pertinent issue of dishonest cue-makers or bad cue-makers. If a cue-maker becomes apprehensive over what will be posted about his cue workmanship or business demeanor, then maybe the cue-maker needs to objectively evaluate his output and implement more stringent quality control measures or change his cue-making technique or equipment. If it's the cue-maker's business approach, i.e, poor service, unresponsive, etc. then the cue-maker needs to hear it and see it so he can become more customer & service oriented. If the cue-maker is dishonest like the ones being discussed on the Forum, then they need to be driven off the Forum and out of business entirely.......There is no room for crooks in this world.

I am not one of Lee's accusers and do not have any skin in this game. But the longer this continues and goes unresolved, the worse Lee Pepper makes needlessly more difficult for other cue-makers that do want to remain in business making high quality cues. His silence and being unavailable are more than incriminating just based upon his original post.....a few excerpts appear below:

"I have decided that once the cues I have started are finished, I will be selling all my equipment and get out of cuemaking totally.".........and he also stated ............."With that being said, all current orders for cues will be finished in a timely manner. It may take a little longer that quoted. I WILL NOT sell any equipment until the last cue is out the door. out of their moneyeen cheated"

Lee's words now fall on deaf ears and are totally worthless to his accusers. People have been cheated and had money stolen.............unless all these posts are bogus which I do not believe they are. The same thing started with Tony Zinzola and now the SOB would be lynched and burned in effigy for his dishonesty. It's sure looking that Lee Pepper is no different than Tony Zinzola.
 
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in keeping with AZB tradition and rules all i can say about you is:

WHAT A WONDERFUL, REMARKABLE AND LIFE SAVING PERSON YOU ARE!

WE ALL SO APPRECIATE YOUR MIND, FEELING AND INTELLECT!

have a nice day,
smokey

p.s. you are a living example of your nom de plume



As Arnold would say: " Dat wus a good one"
 
I agree with John B and another poster.

It just seems to be too much hassle to do Custom orders. Maybe makers should take on one, two, maybe three per year or what ever number that they know that they can produce. The rest should be of the makers design.

Take what you see and if you don't like any, I won't be taking another custom order for a year down the road.

It does seem that if a cue is paid in full, the money gets spent and its out of sight, out of mind for the customer.

But lets think of two or three of the more well known makers. You decide who they might be. They take a certain amount of orders. Are they ever late by a month or four?

Or is it because of their business practices and their word that keeps them on time.

If they are a bit late, they could say, "Dance little customer, dance".

And ya know what, the customers would do the Monkey dance and you would never hear a word of complaint from the customer.

But, I suspect that it is more that the makers word and practices that keep them on time is more than anything in my example.

The makers that I am thinking about have never had a thread started in their name.

On the other hand, there are many lesser known or less famous makers that never have a thread started in their name either.

Certain makers have earned the reputation and they can get by easily with less cues for more money.

That is maybe why if you can't sell your cues for more money and you have to rely on more cues for less money, you should work another job, whether it be full time or part time to get by and use the cue business as more of a hobby and extra income. Then whatever you make off of that is gravy and you give yourself and your customers less head aches in the long run.

Maybe these certain makers just happen to be in the wrong business or that they would mess up any business they were involved in, whether they were building a cue or a house.

I think that all of us have had bad experiences with other non cue related businesses in our lives. Businesses that we would never deal with again.

Just last week, I had a rather unpleasant experience with a place called Outdoor Outfitters.

I told the guy as I was walking out, this is the last time you will see me in your store and by the way, you do realize that Cabella's has a Grand Opening in 2 weeks don't you.

This person was the manager and not some high school student that was apt to flip me off behind my back as I was leaving.
 
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Smokey et al,

I do hope you realize that AZ membership does not require you to read every post or thread and therefore, you are empowered with total discretion on what you select to read.

And I also trust you understand you have the privilege to skip over my my threads & posts...........or agree, or dissent, or endorse, or mock, or praise, or ridicule........ Whatever! That's the beauty of free speech which apparently is a novel principle for some AZers..............Hmn............I suppose it really doesn't matter due to another equally as important guiding dogma which seems perfectly suited to recite in reply........"Ob-la-di Ob-la-da, life goes on, brah."
 
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Should cuemakers do the same with deadbeat customers? We rarely hear about that side of the coin...

Jamie;

I think that we don't hear too much of that side because, typically, the cuemaker holds all the cards.

They usually have a deposit (or full pymt) & the cue they are supposed to be building, only to be shipped upon payment in full.

Are you referring to cuemakers getting stuck with a cue that the customer never follows through on with the rest of their payment? If so, the cuemaker would at least still have the cue to sell.

best,
brian kc
 
Digdug is telling the truth....

Hi All....I was holding off on saying anything as I wanted to be sure but I just got pics from Doug of the forearm of my lp custom from the last raffle I won in I believe October of 2011 that's now in his possession via his purchase of Lee's equipment and supplies. Additionally, I was told by lee it was in the process of being attached to the handle early this year and in reality the forearm is in the same condition it was in when I got a pic last year.

Do what you will with this information. I'm just really disappointed in Lee, out a nice chunk of cash, and feeling sick. After my first experience with Lee, I knew this experience could have a few bumps as his customer service was kind of rough at times but didn't think he would go against his word as it was stated in this retiring from cue making thread. For a long time he seemed like a real standup guy but now I have to wonder who this guy is. Just sad. I still hope he does his best to make this right but I'm not holding my breath.

Good shooting to all,

Kevin
 
its unfortunate but many business people who gave good service and kept their word lose all that when things go bad and they get out of business.
in life when people no longer need you they frequently will do things you wouldnt expect from someone you had good dealings with in the past.

but when they keep your merchandise or money for something not to be delivered it is called stealing. so i hope at some point they realize that and come up with a settlement.
 
I agree with John B and another poster.

It just seems to be too much hassle to do Custom orders. Maybe makers should take on one, two, maybe three per year or what ever number that they know that they can produce. The rest should be of the makers design.

Take what you see and if you don't like any, I won't be taking another custom order for a year down the road.

It does seem that if a cue is paid in full, the money gets spent and its out of sight, out of mind for the customer.

But lets think of two or three of the more well known makers. You decide who they might be. They take a certain amount of orders. Are they ever late by a month or four?

Or is it because of their business practices and their word that keeps them on time.

If they are a bit late, they could say, "Dance little customer, dance".

And ya know what, the customers would do the Monkey dance and you would never hear a word of complaint from the customer.

But, I suspect that it is more that the makers word and practices that keep them on time is more than anything in my example.

The makers that I am thinking about have never had a thread started in their name.

On the other hand, there are many lesser known or less famous makers that never have a thread started in their name either.

Certain makers have earned the reputation and they can get by easily with less cues for more money.

That is maybe why if you can't sell your cues for more money and you have to rely on more cues for less money, you should work another job, whether it be full time or part time to get by and use the cue business as more of a hobby and extra income. Then whatever you make off of that is gravy and you give yourself and your customers less head aches in the long run.

Maybe these certain makers just happen to be in the wrong business or that they would mess up any business they were involved in, whether they were building a cue or a house.

I think that all of us have had bad experiences with other non cue related businesses in our lives. Businesses that we would never deal with again.

Just last week, I had a rather unpleasant experience with a place called Outdoor Outfitters.

I told the guy as I was walking out, this is the last time you will see me in your store and by the way, you do realize that Cabella's has a Grand Opening in 2 weeks don't you.

This person was the manager and not some high school student that was apt to flip me off behind my back as I was leaving.

The older I get the more the dynamics of life become clear. Life is brutal.

Justin posted a video about a famous knife maker whose $350 knives were hard to sell when he was alive and are now fetching up to $70,000. Almost nothing involved with fabricating anything for money is what it seems on the surface. And I mean almost nothing.

You have no idea where a guy is at financially, with his health, family or skills. There are very few makers who are "set" financially with stable shops, stable lives and the right amount of income to expenses. The rest are in kind of feast and famine mode all the time. Let anything happen and they have a very hard time weathering it.

Custom making is also very stressful BEFORE you ever start building. Taking the orders, getting the details, then changes, then questions about updates....etc....

Imagine that a maker has say 20 people he is talking to about cues. Say he gets ten emails and phone calls a day that require him to spend 5-15 minutes on. That's 100 minutes a day, randomly dispersed throughout the day that he has to deal with things not directly involved with the actual building of the cue. Then keeping track of all those details becomes harder and harder. If you happen to take a call when you don't have the order sheet in front of you then you have to make a note that may or may not be transfered to the order sheet. if a change is buried in a string of emails then it's easy to lose.

I think a lot of makers just are not prepared for this.

A lot of them want to please all their customers. They really would love to get all the cues done and have only happy customers. But the demands pile up and pretty soon it's overwhelming. Very few people can handle this. I am one of them that cannot. Without help there would be no JB Cases.

I enjoy doing creative things, stretching the limits, inventing new methods. I don't enjoy the "paperwork" and subsequently I procrastinate it severely. I enjoy being able to offer just about anything a customer wants but I don't like to handle the details. I can only imagine what it's like for makers who have no help.

Some guys have a pretty narrow set of things they will do. They handle this stress by limiting the choices. Other guys have a more, take-what-I-give you approach and that can work for some makers. It's really a spectrum where no choice/poor quality/poor service is on one and and unlimited choice/great quality/great service is on the other end.

Obviously in the custom shop game very few survive at the low end and very few have it all together at the high end. The rest are somewhere in the middle and it doesn't take much to nudge them in the wrong direction while it takes quite a bit more effort for them to move up. Same as climbing a hill really, each step is tougher and tougher as you go up but falling down is easy. With a team it's much easier to climb.

I will be extremely happy when the day comes that I don't owe anyone a case beyond the stated delivery time. That will be a huge burden lifted from myself and the few customers who have been generously patient for their dream (delayed) cases.

I feel horrible for anyone facing the sad fact that their money is gone for cue orders placed. That is unfortunately the risk you take with the middle of the pack cue makers who are working alone.
 
Sometimes I wonder where all the time goes . Today I got 43 Pms and I'm not sure how many e-mails , all about cues and J/ps . Everyone got a answer , and I made as many notes as I could , because my memory sucks . Jim
 
has anyone put together a list of all the people an amounts they say LP owes?

Its kind of said that I hope this guy has had some medical issues. Not that I wish anything bad on him but atleast then I would have some kind of understanding on how this can happen.

If he sold off all his equipment and that included cues in progress and didn' let anyone know thats real a shame.
 
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has anyone put together a list of all the people an amounts they say LP owes?

Its kind of said that I hope this guy has had some medical issues. Not that I wish anything bad on him but atleast then I would have some kind of understanding on how this can happen.

If he sold off all his equipment and that included cues in progress and didn' let anyone know thats real a shame.
Yeah that`s what i found out throught the other LP thread. Man what a f-ing douche Lee Peppers is! :angry:
I don`t really give a F what medical problems he has, at some point he is well enough to contact he`s customers or get someone else to contact them on his behalf.
He obviously managed to sell off his cue making business and his facebook account only has one picture: that of a big fat Harley Davidson...
I know people who have had serious heart surgery, yes your out for a while, but after 3 months you are well enough to write some emails or make some phonecalls.
, maybe even pay back the ones that trusted you?
I know the whole medical thing is very different in the US compared to here in little Norway ( NO i wan`t discuss Obama care...), but who can you blame, but yourself if you dont have insurance!
 
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