Superglue vs epoxy for ferrule install?

I have tried it on a coulple threaded. Been long time ago though. How ever. Back where I just moved from ( ST LOUIS ) I bet replaced 100 ferulles that was glued on with super glue. I will say this. It was over the counter super glue from wlamart kmart ect more than likely. I will also tell you I dont think a single one of them were threaded. Im not saying bad or good just saying I like epoxy!!
 
qbilder said:
I still don't see or hear any negative feedback from anybody who's tried it. So far everybody that's chimed in with experience has posted positive results. But I still see a lot of negative assumptions & what ifs from people who swear they will never even try it. I'd rather hear something from somebody who tried it & experienced failure with it so they could offer legitimate concerns rather than preconceived notions.

Point is, I don't know if cyano is any good for ferrules or not. I haven't tested it well enough or tested any really good grades. And I don't know anybody who has. Time to find out.
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My post was based on my experience, not speculation or hearsay.
The test you're about to embark upon was what I did 20 yrs ago.
I tried it, got my results, moved-on and haven't looked back.
I wouldn't rely too heavily on immediate results. It may take a year
or so before you know.
Given that you install your ferrules with minimal clearance, the ferrule
may not move but you may hear a 'tink' that wasn't there before.

I believe that a ferrule install should last the life of the cue.
Yes, it's a serviceable item IF need be. Nothing is perfect nor lasts forever.
No, like I said, you all are free to do what you like but at least go through
the test process like Eric is and find-out for yourself.

I value my rep. House cue, walk-in repair or one of my own, they won't go out the door with a CA installed ferrule.
 
I used to use CA for slip on ferrules. I had some failures. Since I switched to epoxy ( 18 years ago), I have never had a failure. I agree with Chris Hightower. Lack of shear strength is the reason I attributed the failures to. How many times have you heard of tips poping off, when a cue falls on the floor...JER
 
KJ Cues said:
My post was based on my experience, not speculation or hearsay.
The test you're about to embark upon was what I did 20 yrs ago.
I tried it, got my results, moved-on and haven't looked back.
I wouldn't rely too heavily on immediate results. It may take a year
or so before you know.
Given that you install your ferrules with minimal clearance, the ferrule
may not move but you may hear a 'tink' that wasn't there before.

I believe that a ferrule install should last the life of the cue.
Yes, it's a serviceable item IF need be. Nothing is perfect nor lasts forever.
No, like I said, you all are free to do what you like but at least go through
the test process like Eric is and find-out for yourself.

I value my rep. House cue, walk-in repair or one of my own, they won't go out the door with a CA installed ferrule.
Click to expand...


I agree with you KJ, I did the same test when I started and even though super glues have changed, I won't look back.
 
Michael Webb said:
I agree with you KJ, I did the same test when I started and even though super glues have changed, I won't look back.
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It's true that not all CA's are not the same. I normally use epoxy on them, so I've only tried 454 on a few house cues like I mentioned, Those few were monitored pretty closely, and I could not tell of any failures due to break down in glue strength on those. I have seen CA failures on cues that I could tell someone used some kind of CA with slip tenons, but the same can be said for epoxy or just about any other, I've seen failures in most glues one time or another, even seen failures with threaded tenons. I think just like different CA's may work differently, the same can be said for epoxy, some are better then others.

Sometimes the ferrules are not completely loose if the fit is tight, but Like KJ said just enough to click. I get a lot of those. Sometimes It's hard to get them off the tenon without destroying the ferrule and having to replace It, but I usually manage to, only problem is I often spend more time getting It off and re gluing then I would have in just putting a new ferrule on them to begin with.

For me the epoxies I use are proven from personal use, so I stick with them, I have rarely if ever had a failure with It, and can't see getting much better so have no desire to change.

The most failures that I have seen on the repair side were probably fiber ferrules with wood glue holding them on. The expansion and contraction of that material over the years seems to be too much for wood glue, but I have seen them last for a while also. With just about any glue or material, the conditions it is subjected to make a big difference in how well they hold up, although some do hold up better then others.

Greg
 
> I've mentioned this aspect before in another thread.

I tried twice to use a gel CA for screwing a capped ferrule onto a threaded tenon. 100% failure rate,there just isn't enough air space in a capped ferrule with proper thread engagement to get the ferrule threaded down and tightened before the glue sets. MAYBE you can get away with this with a refrigerated and THICK type but will never try.

The first time I tried it,I spun the ferrule 3 full turns and it locked down tight. The 2nd,I got 1/8 from it locking down.

Be damned if I do that in front of a customer :grin:.

I use the Gorilla epoxy at times,but prefer the Elmer's wood glue for capped ferrules. Tommy D.
 
BLACKHEARTCUES said:
I used to use CA for slip on ferrules. I had some failures. Since I switched to epoxy ( 18 years ago), I have never had a failure. I agree with Chris Hightower. Lack of shear strength is the reason I attributed the failures to. How many times have you heard of tips poping off, when a cue falls on the floor...JER
Click to expand...

To add to this, those black plastic burnishers that you slip over the ferrule and spin are also good at removing the tip when you pull the burnisher off.

Kelly
 
I hardly ever use ca glue. Not because of strength issues but because it is fast and I am........well.......slow. I prefer to match my glues to my working speed.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk
 
guys, thanks everybody for their input. Food for thought without doubt. I think we will stick with epoxy which works good, maybe trying CA once or twice for the sake of test, sort of.
 
Old thread, but I`m wondering what epoxy you guys use?
I`m looking at the West System G/Flex is that a good solution or are there better epoxy`s for ferrules out there?
 
Use the water proof wood glue on ferrules, never had a problem.

Worked in a custom shop that made tables and chairs for Logans, Captain D's,
Shoney's and a few others. One of the customers, Logans Steak House, has maple tables that are made with 1.5 inch maple squares that are glue together with yellow wood glue. I had to cut and router the edge on the CNC. Some were round and some had odd shapes and I always had large pieces left over when the machine was done. I would take the big pieces and hit them on the edge of the trash bin and they never broke along a glue line but would break along a grain line in the wood.

Needless to say I have a lot of respect for wood glue.
 
Lol
I'm getting notifications on this thread,
So I went back to see what I wrote....
It's 5 years since I posted on this thread.
In that time, I really have no idea how many ferrules I have changed,
Using ca,
I can tell you how many have came back.....
Zero
Just more info out there :)
 
Brickcues said:
Use the water proof wood glue on ferrules, never had a problem.

Worked in a custom shop that made tables and chairs for Logans, Captain D's,
Shoney's and a few others. One of the customers, Logans Steak House, has maple tables that are made with 1.5 inch maple squares that are glue together with yellow wood glue. I had to cut and router the edge on the CNC. Some were round and some had odd shapes and I always had large pieces left over when the machine was done. I would take the big pieces and hit them on the edge of the trash bin and they never broke along a glue line but would break along a grain line in the wood.

Needless to say I have a lot of respect for wood glue.
Click to expand...

I have a lot of respect for wood glue when used to glue two flat boards together. But I have seen countless tenons on bar stools come out that were glued with wood glue. But glue them back with epoxy and they are there forever. I tend to think of a ferrule kind of like the tenon in the bar stool. I tried wood glue with slip on ferrules and had some failures and abandoned that many years ago in my early days of cue repairs. Now I do know some cuemakers who thread their ferrules on with wood glue and it has held up for them. I also know some who have used Gorilla glue and super glue for the same threaded ferrule application successfully. I also knew one that put their ferrules on threaded with no glue and claim to never had one come back. So to me it sounds like the threads are the real strength and the glue is secondary, because we would rarely twist a ferrule with anything we normally do while playing pool.

I have worked on old cues that were put together with wood glue and could spin the rings with my fingers. Wood glue for rings, sleeves and such is just trouble waiting to happen from my observations.
 
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Some ferrules are ok with glue.
Some non-porous or nylon based ones do not glue well at all.
Those you have to thread and use epoxy.
I avoid using them as much as possible.
 
i was told not to use super glue on threaded ferrules , will not be easy to remove with heat , in case of crack or other .....
 
Failures

Once was with 5 min epoxy, it was a rush job and the epoxy didn't set up all the way and owner shot for about 3 hrs and the ferrule came loose and popped the tip off....

Other time was the super glue set up before I got the ferrule threaded all the way on.

Have not had a problem with the rest of the ferrules I have installed.
I prefer Devcon 2 ton epoxy or gorilla glue 5 minute epoxy.

From what I have been told there is only two super glue factories in operation in the world.

I would think there would be more factories world wide, with all the different brands of super glue and with all the differences from one super glue to another........
 
mortuarymike-nv said:
Once was with 5 min epoxy, it was a rush job and the epoxy didn't set up all the way and owner shot for about 3 hrs and the ferrule came loose and popped the tip off....

Other time was the super glue set up before I got the ferrule threaded all the way on.

Have not had a problem with the rest of the ferrules I have installed.
I prefer Devcon 2 ton epoxy or gorilla glue 5 minute epoxy.

From what I have been told there is only two super glue factories in operation in the world.

I would think there would be more factories world wide, with all the different brands of super glue and with all the differences from one super glue to another........
Click to expand...


Mike

I do realize that many of the CA brands are private label products. But I'm pretty sure there are quite a few manufacturers who make their own. I think the most popular manufacturer of private label is Bob Smith Industries.

It's very safe to say that not all CA's are created equal.


Royce
 
I have tried Loctite gel and 401 for ferrules and I'm not a fan...
Gorilla glue does not dry clear, so that might be an issue, I have bought some west system G/flex, but I have not tried it yet.
 
I like Elmers assuming the tenon is threaded and assuming you have a good fit with no slop.

You can use medium or thick CA only if you have a good fitting threaded ferrule. Keyword here is good fitting. I would not use CA on unthreaded ferrules or if you have a sloppy fitting ferrule. CA works best on close tolerances.

If there is space in the ferrule end (capped), the CA can stay as a liquid if no air gets in there for up to 2 days. Many years ago, I did a test and wanted to see how the cyano hardened so I faced off the ferrule down to where the glue would be and it was still a liquid after 2 days. A glue relief hole will solve that problem.

Bottom-line: every glue has its place when applied correctly. If you used CA and had failure, then most likely it was not used properly in that particular application.
 
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