"Taper Roll"

Standbykid

Results or excuses?
Silver Member
Am I correct in assuming that all shafts have some kind of taper roll? Even brand new ones?

Seems like I always see cues for sale and the seller puts in a description of "slight taper roll". Seems that they would all have that just based on the fact that shafts don't have a perfect conical taper.

Am I correct, or crazy? Or both (LOL)

Thanks,
Jeremy
 
Am I correct in assuming that all shafts have some kind of taper roll? Even brand new ones?

Seems like I always see cues for sale and the seller puts in a description of "slight taper roll". Seems that they would all have that just based on the fact that shafts don't have a perfect conical taper.

Am I correct, or crazy? Or both (LOL)

Thanks,
Jeremy

Many cue makers aren't going to like hearing this but it makes absolutely no difference what kind of taper the shaft has, if there is movement, or the light changes between the flat surface and the shaft when rolled, as long as the shaft collar and the tip are symmetrical then the shaft is not straight, period. There can be many causes for this: atmospheric conditions, the machine the shaft was made on is not true, the builder may have sanded to much or worse case scenario, the shaft has started to warp. The last of coarse is the worse as this indicates that the shaft has inherent problems. The other problems will not get worse over time.

Dick
 
My two original Schon shafts (1993) one of my two CC shafts, my Gulyassy SPTX and my son's Joss shaft all have zero roll...not rolled on a table, nor rolled on a rail nor spun in a lathe, together or apart. My two GEM shafts and one of my CC shaft have some "taper roll", I agree with Dick Neighbors, a roll is a roll, wood moves...that's just the way it is. The bottom line is not all shafts have to roll crooked, a good number of high quality shafts (kept in good condition) will not necessarily warp. Some will. But anyone who says they ALL roll is not being accurate.
 
I meant to answer this in the main forum, but clicked the one in the cuemaker's forum instead...I can't keep it all straight when people post the same thing in multiple forums!!:(
 
Taper Roll

taper roll = warp

I don't know who coined that term but a warp is a warp. The Wiki for warping needs to be updated to include the term "taper roll."

I think a good follow up question might be...

How much can a shaft warp before it becomes a problem with actual play?
 
This horse has been beat to death. But a taper roll is not a warp, but is from the shaft joint area not being concentric with the front of the shaft. But to answer your question. No, not all shafts will have taper roll. My guess is 90 % of what people call taper roll is simply warpage and not true taper roll.
 
To expand on what Chris has said, to give an example. If say someone asked you to build a shaft for there cue and the pin was not concentric with cue. The shaft you mate up to it could be perfect after its final taper but once you screw it to the cue the joint would not be concentric. So you would have to blend the first couple of inches of the shaft to match the cue. You now would have a shaft with taper roll. So is the shaft really warped? Anybody who matches up predators or ob1 shafts to customers cues has bound to have run into this.
 
Taper roll is not a warp. You can prove it many different ways. The easiest way is just think of a perfect cyclinder. Now, sand a little off one side. When you roll it now, you will see a little daylight as it hits that one spot. Is it still straight? Definitely. Do you see light? Sure. Some say that if you see a variance in the amount of light you can see under that shaft then it is warped. If you had the instrumentation to do the testing, you could prove that there is not a single shaft on the planet that was made by man that is straight. No matter who made it, I guarantee that it isnt perfectly round all the way up and down the shaft. But I know there will be some that want to say they have a perfect shaft. But what they have is a shaft that is very, very close to perfect. Just my .02
 
My two original Schon shafts (1993) one of my two CC shafts, my Gulyassy SPTX and my son's Joss shaft all have zero roll...not rolled on a table, nor rolled on a rail nor spun in a lathe, together or apart. My two GEM shafts and one of my CC shaft have some "taper roll", I agree with Dick Neighbors, a roll is a roll, wood moves...that's just the way it is. The bottom line is not all shafts have to roll crooked, a good number of high quality shafts (kept in good condition) will not necessarily warp. Some will. But anyone who says they ALL roll is not being accurate.[/QUOTE]

:clapping:

Often I see the shafts itself being warped a few, mostly less than 1 mm. But the most shafts of high quality cues are without warpage and they stay unwarped although getting more or less moisture in the diffreent climates.

What I see very often and even at high priced cues (for extra I do not say high quality cues now) is that the but itself and the shaft itself are without warpage, but screwed together the cuestick is not straight 100 %. And in this case it takes not much effort to correct such little mistakes to a roll of whole cuestick smaller than 1 mm.

For my belongs I expect both of a high quality / high priced cuestick: no warpage and straight as a whole piece.

Very good and detailed information can be read on cueperfect's internet-pages to this issue of roll.
 
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straightness

I read on a previous post concerning this subject that you almost never see a pro player walk in and unload his case and start checking out his equipment by rolling the butt or shaft of their cue. I think it is collectors who get so absorbed into the thought of taper roll. It affects the perceived value of the cue when we go to sell. How much will our game on the table be affected if a shaft has a slight variance in straightness. If you let it play on your mind, you think your game is affected. Stop and think if you play any better with the rare perfect straight shaft. Wood moves over time. Unless you got a flopper, it aint no biggee. 2 cents
 
Hi,

I agree with Chris.

Also an over sanded shaft can be pancaked or slightly elliptical exposing air on the table and the X centerline can be true.

Most salesman selling a used cue say taper roll to confuse because who wants to buy a warped cue.

JMO,

Rick
 
I'm sorry but who the hell sands a shaft on only one side? That has never made sense to me. Every shaft I have sanded is spinning. If you are hitting one side more than another, the shaft is already FUBAR and not straight.
 
I'm sorry but who the hell sands a shaft on only one side? That has never made sense to me. Every shaft I have sanded is spinning. If you are hitting one side more than another, the shaft is already FUBAR and not straight.

If your chuck is not fairly true your shaft can point off and have to be bent to get the live center up against it and that can cause one side to sand more than the other. This can be overcome by making your lathe pin able to pivot by sliding a short piece of hose over it. Then that will relive any tendancy to bend the shaft. I would not call that taper roll but rather and egg shaped shaft.
 
If your chuck is not fairly true your shaft can point off and have to be bent to get the live center up against it and that can cause one side to sand more than the other. This can be overcome by making your lathe pin able to pivot by sliding a short piece of hose over it. Then that will relive any tendancy to bend the shaft. I would not call that taper roll but rather and egg shaped shaft.

Great tip Chris.

thanks for sharing

Kim
 
To expand on what Chris has said, to give an example. If say someone asked you to build a shaft for there cue and the pin was not concentric with cue. The shaft you mate up to it could be perfect after its final taper but once you screw it to the cue the joint would not be concentric. So you would have to blend the first couple of inches of the shaft to match the cue. You now would have a shaft with taper roll. So is the shaft really warped? Anybody who matches up predators or ob1 shafts to customers cues has bound to have run into this.

My junk box has one of those shafts in it............

I would rather not make a shaft at all than make one like that. No matter what you do, the wobble will be your fault.

Kim
 
If your chuck is not fairly true your shaft can point off and have to be bent to get the live center up against it and that can cause one side to sand more than the other. This can be overcome by making your lathe pin able to pivot by sliding a short piece of hose over it. Then that will relive any tendancy to bend the shaft. I would not call that taper roll but rather and egg shaped shaft.

And if your chuck and driver are true, but the shaft isn't straight to begin with, putting the tip in a live center to sand/clean will cause it to bend and sand unevenly.

Kelly
 
I'm sorry but who the hell sands a shaft on only one side? That has never made sense to me. Every shaft I have sanded is spinning. If you are hitting one side more than another, the shaft is already FUBAR and not straight.

I would think that the majority of cues with uneven sanding is because of hand-sanding by the owners of the cues...not machine sanding.
 
If your chuck is not fairly true your shaft can point off and have to be bent to get the live center up against it and that can cause one side to sand more than the other. This can be overcome by making your lathe pin able to pivot by sliding a short piece of hose over it. Then that will relive any tendancy to bend the shaft. I would not call that taper roll but rather and egg shaped shaft.

This is a good point. Also, as you mentioned before, any shaft not exactly
concentric around the centerline, will appear to wobble when rolled.

I'm sure Ryan knows all wood moves somewhat over time. Rare is the shaft that stays round.

Dale
 
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