TAR 34 SVB/Efren 8 Ball: Open After Break or Make It Take It?

[pt109]

8-ball is the game I have gambled least at....most bars had insane rules.
Take what you make seems a regression to 'bar' rules.

I vote open table and last pocket...why shouldn't the best player win?

I saw Ronnie Wiseman make 5 low balls on the break...he couldn't see the
other two low balls...he ran out on high balls......
...playing 'take what you make' would have made him a big under-dog that game.

I don't think rules should be used to dumb down the game.

 

[AtLarge]

... I'm going to ask Efren how he wants to play. His choice is how they play.

How is it right to ask one of the two players in a head-to-head match to set a rule? If you're going to ask one of the players which way he'd prefer to have it, why not also ask the other player? Maybe they will agree. If so, no issues. If they disagree, you could flip a coin or go with the potential-customer poll.

 

[mikeyfrost]

I love how everyone has forgotten that Efren can play a lil bit of 8 ball....I mean he only won the biggest 8 ball tourney ever held. If efren somehow finds a break that works he will be extremely competitive with svb. I still think no one can beat svb at 8 ball not busty or orcollo. Its not all to do with his break either.

 

[AtLarge]

I love how everyone has forgotten that Efren can play a lil bit of 8 ball....I mean he only won the biggest 8 ball tourney ever held. If efren somehow finds a break that works he will be extremely competitive with svb. I still think no one can beat svb at 8 ball not busty or orcollo. Its not all to do with his break either.

His more-recent form, however, was not so good. In the Accu-Stats Make-It-Happen 8-Ball Invitational event last summer (6 players, round robin format), Efren was the only guy to go without a match win. (That was on a 10-footer.)

 

[punter]

How is right to ask one of the two players in a head-to-head match to set a rule? If you're going to ask one of the players which way he'd prefer to have it, why not also ask the other player? Maybe they will agree. If so, no issues. If they disagree, you could flip a coin or go with the potential-customer poll.

Efren is pushing 60 and the best pool player of his generation, maybe of all time. Shane is in his prime. To me, it's a respect issue, a tip of the hat to Efren for giving the pool public this matchup. JMO.

 

[westcoast]

Somebody mentioned this earlier, but I think it would be best to play alternate break rather than winner breaks. It helps even out the advantage of a huge break

 

[tryin2playagain]

Any chance of going back to the tight pockets? I am not sure how everyone feels about 10 ball but I would hope most would agree you would see the best one pocket and 8 ball on tight pockets. Either way keep up the good work!! It is greatly appreciated.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

 

[AtLarge]

Efren is pushing 60 and the best pool player of his generation, maybe of all time. Shane is in his prime. To me, it's a respect issue, a tip of the hat to Efren for giving the pool public this matchup. JMO.

I disagree. Respect is treating him the same as the other guy. This is an exhibition, but not a meaningless one just to see the "old guy." It's supposed to be a true head-to-head battle of two of the best. Treat them equally. If Efren has no chance that way, he shouldn't be there (unless it's presented a bit differently). Efren still plays well enough to have a chance regardless of the rules.

 

[JesseBfan]

Currently

It's a close matchup to say the least

57-56 make it take it in the lead. Interesting poll but I love what JCIN said earlier about Efren making the call either way.

Btw JCIN, is the Vimeo thing up and running yet? Just got my appleTV and Vimeo is an option on there so lets do this!

 

[efirkey]

I say skip eight ball which is too easy for the pros and have them play 15 ball rotation where Efren is arguably the favorite.

 

[naji]

I say skip eight ball which is too easy for the pros and have them play 15 ball rotation where Efren is arguably the favorite.

We all know all pros can play in long races no doubt, only separation is luck. If we are to give luck a quantity say 0 being unlucky, and 100 for most luck you can have; i'd say SVB could win any match when he get as little as 5% luck to win any game, where as his opponents needs the whole 100% of it, maybe Efren could win with 20% luck. With rotation requiring some luck, i'd say SVB might loose to Efren since SVB is not used to win games relying on luck.

 

[Island Drive]

Danny Medina might be a good comparison. Quite a few yrs back, in the world 8 ball finals at the Rivera against Efren, the break Was the difference. Efren had no where near the power to open the stack. Dannys pocketing at the time was rock solid and his break was a huge on a 9 footer, nothing was ever tied up after Danny broke, and he always made two or three. To a beginner it musta looked too easy, I'm guessing middle 1990's for the match date.

 

[naji]

Just looking to get some opinions on what people think is the best way for Shane and Efren to play 8 Ball next week. Last night Busty and Alex played an amazing 8 Ball set and it was open after the break. Some people said its too easy.

My thinking is make it take can favor the bigger breaker since he will make more balls more often giving him the option of groups more than the guy who only makes one or two balls on the break. I can see it going both ways though so I just want hear what others think about the subject.

So what say you AZ?

i'd say make the 1 in side pocket opposite to where it is racked, and 15 at opposite side. This will lengthen the game a bit and make it a tiny bit harder?

 

[StraightPoolIU]

In the past I've favored open after the break because that is how the WPA rules are written, and I also thought the most options would be the most fair. However, I've changed my mind and voted for make it take it. I want to see how the players deal with it if they get a tough situation. People talk a lot about being disadvantaged after making a good break, but at their level I don't think it matters that much. It will just be more entertaining to watch.

 

[chipperd]

hmmmm

We added a ball in 9ball and played ten ball, how about adding 4 more balls to the rack of 8ball. Lol, or you could use 2 racks and play on the 10 footer!:thumbup:

 

[CreeDo]

Arghhh.

Why are we making changes to slow down packages, when we just made the decision
to go with standard sized pockets for more packages? And what a good decision that was!
I got truly excited the other night, it looks like we'd see the first ten pack fully caught on camera.*
*I think earl's wasn't entirely on camera, just the end of it, and anyway it had lots of early 9's.

Criticism that 8 ball is too easy is inevitable, some people just don't feel pros should play it.
Take-what-you-make won't change that. It simply adds an extra element of luck to the game.
At this level, where guys are running 5 packs, race to 20 is already short, we don't need any added luck.

Beyond that, Shane's already got the edge on efren with a monster break, he's going to
drop 3 balls routinely. So when efren manages to get a ball, let's not penalize him by making
the old guy fire at something impossible. Take-what-you-make definitely favors the exceptional breakers.

If we think the game's too easy, let's not add a coin-flip element to make it harder,
add a truly strategic rule like last pocket 8 ball.

 

[StraightPoolIU]

The guys who play on TAR are the best in the world at what they do. Its SUPPOSED to look easy. Making the game harder by gaffing rules or equipment to make them look less proficient doesn't make sense to me.

I forgot all about the other poll or I wouldnt have started this one. I'm going to ask Efren how he wants to play. His choice is how they play.

Agreed. That sounds good to me.

 

[krupa]

Friday night was the first TAR event I've seen and I thought it was great the way it was. After Alex put the first three racks together (and made it look easy) I was hoping to see more. Then, Francisco strung 8(!) and I wondered if Alex would shoot again. The "crushing blow" of that first miss by Francisco was all the more sweet because he had run so many racks.

As they put more racks together, the problem balls look that much harder. I want to see them continue and the drama increases with every rack. I'm not a bowler, but I imagine it's similar to someone bowling 5-6 strikes in a row. It's definitely the same as baseball when a pitcher shuts out the opponents through 5 or 6 innings... you suddenly start wondering if you're witnessing something amazing.

Seriously... would anyone actually complain if someone ran 20 straight racks of 8-ball!? Would you honestly complain that they make it look too easy!? Are you that doofus who watches someone run 150-out in straight pool and say "but he didn't have any hard shots"!?

 

[spanky79]

Just change the 8 ball to BANKS and problem solved.

Watching top players bank is amazing.

 

[Island Drive]

Friday night was the first TAR event I've seen and I thought it was great the way it was. After Alex put the first three racks together (and made it look easy) I was hoping to see more. Then, Francisco strung 8(!) and I wondered if Alex would shoot again. The "crushing blow" of that first miss by Francisco was all the more sweet because he had run so many racks.

As they put more racks together, the problem balls look that much harder. I want to see them continue and the drama increases with every rack. I'm not a bowler, but I imagine it's similar to someone bowling 5-6 strikes in a row. It's definitely the same as baseball when a pitcher shuts out the opponents through 5 or 6 innings... you suddenly start wondering if you're witnessing something amazing.

Seriously... would anyone actually complain if someone ran 20 straight racks of 8-ball!? Would you honestly complain that they make it look too easy!? Are you that doofus who watches someone run 150-out in straight pool and say "but he didn't have any hard shots"!?

Nice write....