The greatest 9 ball player ever.

JB Cases said:
It's funny that there are a lot of these "no one wanted to play" stories around for almost every player out there but now and again a top player shows up on AZB and says, "um, I was there and I wanted to play......"
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CJ or someone else, may have played him somewhere,sometime , but they didn't play him that day, I watched Mark leave after hanging around for about 2 or 3 hours waiting to see if anyone could get backed.
My original post did not say Mark Tadd was the greatest player who ever lived or that he could not ever be beat, it was just what happened that day.
I think the first time I ever saw CJ or heard about him was at a US Open, he came in , asked for action, nobody could or would play.
Thats just the way it is.
Everyone below you will wait till you are in a weak moment or out of stroke and then want to play.
That's why most of the players who make it to the top finally just quit.
They don't want to waste any more time on a game that gives very little back to the majority, and they can't go on the road , even if they get some games , the danger of running into someone who is unhappy with them is huge.
On a side note I remember when Johnny Archer first started beating big name players at tournaments.
Mike Sigel was giving Nick Varner an earfull for playing him 5 dollar nine ball the year before and letting him get his knowledge and cheap straight pool for the same outcome.
Sigel finally said
"Why don't you invite him over and play some 10 dollar one pocket for a month and we won't be able to beat him at anything."!
The way Sigel said it was hilarious, I wish I had the foresight to always have a tape recorder on me back then.
 
Ken_4fun said:
I know and understand perfectly.

All comments would only be rumors...:rolleyes:

Ken
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Ionce heard tat Denny Searcyand someone else I can't remeber, beat Sam Walton of Wal mart for nearly 1 million. Again, I have "heard'may stories!
I would gues the biggest loser was the Airplane guy up iDetrot. I have heard he lost i the area of 30-40 million andin a short period.
 
Gilbertfan81 said:
Or any rotation game for that matter. There are so many threads about who is the greatest, the most common mentioned names are as follows- Hall, Strickland, Sigel, lassiter, Willis, Reyes, and Bustamante. There is one name that is always left out. He owned everybody on the list ( that played in his era) for the cash, except Buddy. Why is it that no one puts Jose Parica on the list. I just finished reading Pool Wars and Jay said in his own words in the book that Jose beat them all for the cash. If you know of any instances where he was beaten please share with the forum. Would love to hear some opinions on this.
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Archer needs to be on this list, as do Reyes and Souquet. Despite his excellence, I'd drop Don Willis from the list.

Greatness is measured in titles, and Jose's title count in the biggest events having the most internationally deep fields doesn't make him worthy of consideration as the best. As I see it, if he didn't own the great ones in competition, he didn't own them.

Gambling is another matter, and endurance becomes a big factor. Greatness is not measured by money, otherwise my biggest idol would be the C player who beat another C player out of 10 million dollars.

Jose has been a major force in our sport but he cannot be considered the best because his title count is insufficient.

The BCA Hall of Fame has always, quite properly, ignored the gambling scene in its induction selection process.
 
Wade Crane was another one that played great in both "arenas".

book collector said:
CJ or someone else, may have played him somewhere,sometime , but they didn't play him that day, I watched Mark leave after hanging around for about 2 or 3 hours waiting to see if anyone could get backed.
My original post did not say Mark Tadd was the greatest player who ever lived or that he could not ever be beat, it was just what happened that day.
I think the first time I ever saw CJ or heard about him was at a US Open, he came in , asked for action, nobody could or would play.
Thats just the way it is.
Everyone below you will wait till you are in a weak moment or out of stroke and then want to play.
That's why most of the players who make it to the top finally just quit.
They don't want to waste any more time on a game that gives very little back to the majority, and they can't go on the road , even if they get some games , the danger of running into someone who is unhappy with them is huge.
On a side note I remember when Johnny Archer first started beating big name players at tournaments.
Mike Sigel was giving Nick Varner an earfull for playing him 5 dollar nine ball the year before and letting him get his knowledge and cheap straight pool for the same outcome.
Sigel finally said
"Why don't you invite him over and play some 10 dollar one pocket for a month and we won't be able to beat him at anything."!
The way Sigel said it was hilarious, I wish I had the foresight to always have a tape recorder on me back then.
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I agree, Mark was an outstanding player, and Archer was lucky to have Nick Varner to share his knowledge, that's for sure.

Back then there was a line in the sand between the top notch gamblers and the premiere tournament players. I always looked at it like "Boxing" and "Street Fighting"......in tournaments you only played for an hour or two, however, in gambling matches, especially the "ahead sets" there was no "bell" to end the round or the match.

Wade Crane was another one that played great in both "arenas"....he won some major tournaments AND was feared as being a top notch money player. I heard him say many times he was more proud of his gambling reputation than his tournament one.

There was no absolute best player, the game chose to express it's perfection through many players through the years. Saying one was any "better" would be like saying one flavor of ice cream was better......they all are great, it's just a matter of personal preference. 'The Ice Cream is the Teacher' ;)
 
westcoast said:
That would be interesting to see (Earl-Sigel). Perhaps POVPool could do it (considering TAR won't work with Earl any more). Sigel would probably have to be given a few months to prepare to get back up to Earl's speed considering Earl still competes with the best on a regular basis. Would be fun to see. Perhaps Daniel Busch is interested?
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That would be the epitome of PPV imo...

Both are very entertaining players for crowds. They both show their personality while at the table. Both have always had people crowd around just to watch them. And they both would claim to be the best 9 ball player ever. So, this is like Mosconi-Fats type viewership material here.

If they did an all around, it should certainly include straight pool to 125-150, (Mike's favorite game), and of course 9 ball (not 10 ball, as these two mostly played 9 ball in the past).

Where is the promoters? :thumbup:

Good name for it would be "War of Legends"
 
In the 60's I would say, Portland "Don" Watson was the best 9 ball player around, when I came up in the 70's, Goose was strong around Tampa, we had allot of strong players at Bakers, Stigall, Caton, Goff, Cook, yes Steve was a 1P champion but was a very strong 9 ball player, more into the 80's Tommy Kennedy was awful hard to beat in Florida, David Howard, Earl, Buddy, Efren and Breedlove spent a fair amount of time at the Flamingo, I idolized Sigel in the late 80's and 90's many local guys thought he was a snob and too good to rack his own.

:grin-square:
 
Fatboy said:
this is true SVB is on his way, but he there yet. I believe he will get there-he has the work ethic and stones. in 5-10 years then we can see, he also has less competition than Earl had back in the 80's or Wimpy etc.
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I've actually got to disagree with you on this one. Not about the, SVB not being there yet part, I fully agree with you on that, but about the competition level. I would actually say that the competition level now is much higher than it's ever been.

It wasn't until in the last 10 or so years that the European players became monsters at rotation games (look at the Mosconi Cup win/loss history to prove that) as well as the Taiwan and Chinese players that are now absolute killers.

Back in the mid 90's and prior, you really only had a handful of Filipino players, Ralf Souquet, Oliver Ortmann, and Fong Pang Chao to really contend with on an international level. (I'm sure I've left off a couple of others but you get the point.) :-)

But now...the number of international players who are legitimate "Top Echelon" caliber players is staggering.
 
all the famous 9-ball players have international titles & world championships so it's really hard to judge which one is the best. i'd pick efren because for me, his intelligence of the game, his strategy and shot-making ability, cannot be matched.
if my opponent pulls off a good safety shot and i get really stuck, and i get to pick a world champion who'll shoot that next shot for me, i'd choose efren.
 
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I don't understand why SVB gets dismissed so fast. The international titles will come sooner or later, and even if they don't, it's not like he hasn't won major titles with a healthy international field at home. We all know he's going to get even better, but give the kid some credit. He has to be top 5 minimum. Name any one with more gamble, and tournament toughness. The kid IS that good. I believe he has/had a standing offer to come play for whatever you want in my home town, for a while. I've never seen/heard him turn down a game.

I think the others are great, but I think a lot dismiss the kid to fast.

best,

Justin
 
Stu...I'd disagree about Don. He NEVER played tournaments (in those days there were almost no tournaments anyway), but was always there, and willing to play the winners for whatever they wanted. He was also acknowledged by his peers at Johnston City to be the best! He had a standing offer to play ANYONE for $25K (a big sum back in those days), if they came to Canton. In 20 years nobody took him up on his offer. One more reason to include Don was his amazing skill at any billiards game, cards (mostly gin), dice, ping pong, horseshoes, and numerous other activities.

As far as "titles won" mattering at all, if that were true than Sigel would be the champ, as he won more titles than anyone else (100+...mostly 9 ball)...yet now he simply cannot stay with the better players, and rarely puts himself in a position to challenge that.

Okay, I'll come down off my soapbox now! :D

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

sjm said:
Despite his excellence, I'd drop Don Willis from the list.

Greatness is measured in titles, and Jose's title count in the biggest events having the most internationally deep fields doesn't make him worthy of consideration as the best. As I see it, if he didn't own the great ones in competition, he didn't own them.
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Scott Lee said:
As far as "titles won" mattering at all, if that were true than Sigel would be the champ, as he won more titles than anyone else (100+...mostly 9 ball)...yet now he simply cannot stay with the better players, and rarely puts himself in a position to challenge that.
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Sigel is 61 years old now, you know. And I know this thread is about the greatest 9-ball player ever, but watching the Accu-Stats 14.1 Invitational I think Sigel in his prime could more than hold his own in straight pool against the best today as well.
 
True...But Efren is only a couple years younger, and still beating most everybody at any game...same with Parica, and he is even older than Sigel. :eek:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

PoolBum said:
Sigel is 61 years old now, you know. And I know this thread is about the greatest 9-ball player ever, but watching the Accu-Stats 14.1 Invitational I think Sigel in his prime could more than hold his own in straight pool against the best today as well.
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