The Rack in Detroit
- Thread starter FSutton
- Start date
John Henry used to come into the Hall of Fame pool room around Detroit, about 4 years ago he is at the Derby and starts playing a guy some $20 one pocket. Well he ends up winning $1900 off the guy, nice little score when you start for cheap.
John Henry is the epitome of what is known as a "grinder." He can grind with the best of 'em. :grin-square:
Trying to inspire Corvette
Excellent story, CJ.
This is the best thread on AZ, no doubt. I miss hearing these stories. I also miss how Vette used to post his MS Paint cartoons. Here's hoping I inspire Vette because this thread is full of material:
:thumbup:
Excellent story, CJ.
This is the best thread on AZ, no doubt. I miss hearing these stories. I also miss how Vette used to post his MS Paint cartoons. Here's hoping I inspire Vette because this thread is full of material:
:thumbup:
CJ -
I did smile on the rack story.
I often wonder why pool players have such a big problem with 30% -50% share when they are getting staked.
The stakehorse is taking all the risk, often risk getting dumped, and yet pool players dont want to take a swing with no risk....I have seen it in person and it is also mentioned on the net.
Foolish in my eyes.
Ken
I did smile on the rack story.
I often wonder why pool players have such a big problem with 30% -50% share when they are getting staked.
The stakehorse is taking all the risk, often risk getting dumped, and yet pool players dont want to take a swing with no risk....I have seen it in person and it is also mentioned on the net.
Foolish in my eyes.
Ken
I believe it was 84, I remember 'The Color of Money' was being filmed in Chicago
I believe it was 84, I remember 'The Color of Money' was being filmed in Chicago because Grady had been over there doing some filming at the time. 'The Color' came out in 86, so that would be right, and I was 19 years old at the time.
I have several "RACK" stories, that's one of the few places I got action even though they knew who I was. The money was so strong there it really didn't matter, there were also some pretty sharp guys - Sammy Jones, Johnny Ross, James Christopher, etc.
Yuk - I need another shower after reading this and I just walked out on one.What year was this?
Dave
I believe it was 84, I remember 'The Color of Money' was being filmed in Chicago because Grady had been over there doing some filming at the time. 'The Color' came out in 86, so that would be right, and I was 19 years old at the time.
I have several "RACK" stories, that's one of the few places I got action even though they knew who I was. The money was so strong there it really didn't matter, there were also some pretty sharp guys - Sammy Jones, Johnny Ross, James Christopher, etc.
Well after I left the area. That place was something else for sure. Thanks for the story and date.
I spent a couple of weeks at THE RACK in Detroit when I was 19 years old. One night I was in there practicing and Johnny Ross came up to me and motioned me over to the side. He leaned over with his hand over his mouth like a used car salesman getting ready to offer me "the deal of the century."
"We got a game for you tonight!" Johnny whispered, "with a guy named Cletus....it's playing one pocket, but the guy plays like old people f*%#...we'll (the local corporation) stake you and give you 30%, but he'll bet really high, we may win 30 to 40k!"
"30%, wtf, you got to be kidding, I won't play for less than 40%"
"That's the deal, sh*t the fu*%in house takes 10% - take it or leave it, it's sure action though, but there's one "catch".....you gotta talk really nasty to this sick freak or he won't want to gamble with you."
"So let me get this straight, I gotta play for 30% AND talk nasty to this guy, what kind of sick f*c%in joke is this, Johnny?"
Just then the front door was opened (you had to get "buzzed" in) and in walks this huge unshaven man that looked just like Brutus in the Popeye comics. He looked around glaring at the room, with a twisted smile trying to form under his three day stubbly beard. This guy looked like the poster guy for a prison movie.... Shaw-shank Perversion' or something like that.
"That's him, do you want to play or not?" Johnny's raspy voice sent shivers down my spine, or maybe it was the thought of talking dirty to Brutus...I mean Cletus. :frown:
"Ok, but what the heck do I say to this sicko?" the was the most awkward I'd felt before matching up with anyone in my life.
"Come on, just follow my lead"....I followed Johnny Ross over to where Brutus....I mean Cletus was standing. Johnny marched right up to him and said "what are you doing in here you sleezy piece of sh%* I thought the trash came in and out of the back door".....Cletus looked at Johnny menacingly, then broke into a big grin. "Johnny Ross, my dream cell mate, hope you brought plenty of lube if we're going to gamble tonight".
Johnny said "I got a little kid that'll play your sorry ass some one hole"....nodding at me....I took my cue and said "yeah, you dirty motha fu%$a I got something for you that Ajax won't take off"......I pulled it off, but my heart was pounding under my leather jacket. I"m not sure what else I said, and I'm glad, sometimes in my line of "work" you had to act....and this part was certainly just an act....and fortunately I'd never be in this situation again.
Cletus looked at me and growled "you look just like the brother of a 16 year old girl I used to date....had to date her for 3 years just to f#*% her little brother.....and he looked just like you"......I tried not to put any images to his words, but the important thing was I KNEW he would play me now. :thumbup: Johnny gave me the "it's george" sign and the game was on.
And play me he did, I gave him 9/4 and his scratches don't count for $900 a game starting out and $18,000 later he looked like the blood had been drained out of him. They gave me my $5000 ( the time was $1800, they didn't charge by the hour, with guys like Cletus they took 10% for the "house") Brutal - to this day that's the most I've ever been charged for pool time. But when you're betting thousands against a guy like Cetus it really didn't matter, it was just a "cost of doing business".
They walked Cletus out the door and safely to his car (he still had 20k).
I ask Johnny "I wonder where he's going now?"
Johnny, without hesitation barked "he'll go hire a LIMO and three hookers and they'll drive him around Detroit, handcuffed, like he's been kidnapped, one will have a gun to his head and other two will be whipping him and calling him every filthy name they can think of"......"and I imagine Cletus will be like a kid taking a tour of a candy store," I whispered under my breath.
.....just another day at the office for Brutus - I mean Cletus - the dirtiest, stinkiest, sleaziest pool sucker on earth, that also played for tens of thousands of dollars at a Game called pool. I never would have believed it if I hadn't been there and seen it with my own eyes....what a world.
I felt a little bit guilty after beating sick ole Cletus out of that 18k....sure I did :groucho: 'The Rack was the Teacher'
How's my old buddy Johnny Ross doing? Is he down in Florida somewhere? I know he loved to play golf and was a low handicapper. He took off a big score in California many moons back.
I first met him in L.A. in 1969. He tried me some 9-Ball for ten a game and I beat him out of maybe eighty bucks before he quit. We never played again, although he steered several games my way, making sure to get his HALF!
John was one sharp cat, a money maker around the pool room.
I spent a couple of weeks at THE RACK in Detroit when I was 19 years old. One night I was in there practicing and Johnny Ross came up to me and motioned me over to the side. He leaned over with his hand over his mouth like a used car salesman getting ready to offer me "the deal of the century."
"We got a game for you tonight!" Johnny whispered, "with a guy named Cletus....it's playing one pocket, but the guy plays like old people f*%#...we'll (the local corporation) stake you and give you 30%, but he'll bet really high, we may win 30 to 40k!"
"30%, wtf, you got to be kidding, I won't play for less than 40%"
"That's the deal, sh*t the fu*%in house takes 10% - take it or leave it, it's sure action though, but there's one "catch".....you gotta talk really nasty to this sick freak or he won't want to gamble with you."
"So let me get this straight, I gotta play for 30% AND talk nasty to this guy, what kind of sick f*c%in joke is this, Johnny?"
Just then the front door was opened (you had to get "buzzed" in) and in walks this huge unshaven man that looked just like Brutus in the Popeye comics. He looked around glaring at the room, with a twisted smile trying to form under his three day stubbly beard. This guy looked like the poster guy for a prison movie.... Shaw-shank Perversion' or something like that.
"That's him, do you want to play or not?" Johnny's raspy voice sent shivers down my spine, or maybe it was the thought of talking dirty to Brutus...I mean Cletus. :frown:
"Ok, but what the heck do I say to this sicko?" the was the most awkward I'd felt before matching up with anyone in my life.
"Come on, just follow my lead"....I followed Johnny Ross over to where Brutus....I mean Cletus was standing. Johnny marched right up to him and said "what are you doing in here you sleezy piece of sh%* I thought the trash came in and out of the back door".....Cletus looked at Johnny menacingly, then broke into a big grin. "Johnny Ross, my dream cell mate, hope you brought plenty of lube if we're going to gamble tonight".
Johnny said "I got a little kid that'll play your sorry ass some one hole"....nodding at me....I took my cue and said "yeah, you dirty motha fu%$a I got something for you that Ajax won't take off"......I pulled it off, but my heart was pounding under my leather jacket. I"m not sure what else I said, and I'm glad, sometimes in my line of "work" you had to act....and this part was certainly just an act....and fortunately I'd never be in this situation again.
Cletus looked at me and growled "you look just like the brother of a 16 year old girl I used to date....had to date her for 3 years just to f#*% her little brother.....and he looked just like you"......I tried not to put any images to his words, but the important thing was I KNEW he would play me now. :thumbup: Johnny gave me the "it's george" sign and the game was on.
And play me he did, I gave him 9/4 and his scratches don't count for $900 a game starting out and $18,000 later he looked like the blood had been drained out of him. They gave me my $5000 ( the time was $1800, they didn't charge by the hour, with guys like Cletus they took 10% for the "house") Brutal - to this day that's the most I've ever been charged for pool time. But when you're betting thousands against a guy like Cetus it really didn't matter, it was just a "cost of doing business".
They walked Cletus out the door and safely to his car (he still had 20k).
I ask Johnny "I wonder where he's going now?"
Johnny, without hesitation barked "he'll go hire a LIMO and three hookers and they'll drive him around Detroit, handcuffed, like he's been kidnapped, one will have a gun to his head and other two will be whipping him and calling him every filthy name they can think of"......"and I imagine Cletus will be like a kid taking a tour of a candy store," I whispered under my breath.
.....just another day at the office for Brutus - I mean Cletus - the dirtiest, stinkiest, sleaziest pool sucker on earth, that also played for tens of thousands of dollars at a Game called pool. I never would have believed it if I hadn't been there and seen it with my own eyes....what a world.
I felt a little bit guilty after beating sick ole Cletus out of that 18k....
This is the best pool story i ever heard and the dirtyest tooo!
I spent a couple of weeks at THE RACK in Detroit when I was 19 years old. One night I was in there practicing and Johnny Ross came up to me and motioned me over to the side. He leaned over with his hand over his mouth like a used car salesman getting ready to offer me "the deal of the century."
"We got a game for you tonight!" Johnny whispered, "with a guy named Cletus....it's playing one pocket, but the guy plays like old people f*%#...we'll (the local corporation) stake you and give you 30%, but he'll bet really high, we may win 30 to 40k!"
"30%, wtf, you got to be kidding, I won't play for less than 40%"
"That's the deal, sh*t the fu*%in house takes 10% - take it or leave it, it's sure action though, but there's one "catch".....you gotta talk really nasty to this sick freak or he won't want to gamble with you."
"So let me get this straight, I gotta play for 30% AND talk nasty to this guy, what kind of sick f*c%in joke is this, Johnny?"
Just then the front door was opened (you had to get "buzzed" in) and in walks this huge unshaven man that looked just like Brutus in the Popeye comics. He looked around glaring at the room, with a twisted smile trying to form under his three day stubbly beard. This guy looked like the poster guy for a prison movie.... Shaw-shank Perversion' or something like that.
"That's him, do you want to play or not?" Johnny's raspy voice sent shivers down my spine, or maybe it was the thought of talking dirty to Brutus...I mean Cletus. :frown:
"Ok, but what the heck do I say to this sicko?" the was the most awkward I'd felt before matching up with anyone in my life.
"Come on, just follow my lead"....I followed Johnny Ross over to where Brutus....I mean Cletus was standing. Johnny marched right up to him and said "what are you doing in here you sleezy piece of sh%* I thought the trash came in and out of the back door".....Cletus looked at Johnny menacingly, then broke into a big grin. "Johnny Ross, my dream cell mate, hope you brought plenty of lube if we're going to gamble tonight".
Johnny said "I got a little kid that'll play your sorry ass some one hole"....nodding at me....I took my cue and said "yeah, you dirty motha fu%$a I got something for you that Ajax won't take off"......I pulled it off, but my heart was pounding under my leather jacket. I"m not sure what else I said, and I'm glad, sometimes in my line of "work" you had to act....and this part was certainly just an act....and fortunately I'd never be in this situation again.
Cletus looked at me and growled "you look just like the brother of a 16 year old girl I used to date....had to date her for 3 years just to f#*% her little brother.....and he looked just like you"......I tried not to put any images to his words, but the important thing was I KNEW he would play me now. :thumbup: Johnny gave me the "it's george" sign and the game was on.
And play me he did, I gave him 9/4 and his scratches don't count for $900 a game starting out and $18,000 later he looked like the blood had been drained out of him. They gave me my $5000 ( the time was $1800, they didn't charge by the hour, with guys like Cletus they took 10% for the "house") Brutal - to this day that's the most I've ever been charged for pool time. But when you're betting thousands against a guy like Cetus it really didn't matter, it was just a "cost of doing business".
They walked Cletus out the door and safely to his car (he still had 20k).
I ask Johnny "I wonder where he's going now?"
Johnny, without hesitation barked "he'll go hire a LIMO and three hookers and they'll drive him around Detroit, handcuffed, like he's been kidnapped, one will have a gun to his head and other two will be whipping him and calling him every filthy name they can think of"......"and I imagine Cletus will be like a kid taking a tour of a candy store," I whispered under my breath.
.....just another day at the office for Brutus - I mean Cletus - the dirtiest, stinkiest, sleaziest pool sucker on earth, that also played for tens of thousands of dollars at a Game called pool. I never would have believed it if I hadn't been there and seen it with my own eyes....what a world.
I felt a little bit guilty after beating sick ole Cletus out of that 18k....
Hello Mr. CJ,
I trust that you are doing well! I love this story. As a matter of fact I was drifting around in Michigan, off and on for a while. Flint, Detroit, Mt Morris, Lansing, Bay City, Midland, Saginaw, and several other places around a 3 state area.
I think I remember hearing about this match and some others during that time frame.
I really enjoyed reading the story from you. Now I know it really did happen. You hear a lot of stories on the road. But you shed a lot of light on this story. Thanks.
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.
Action in New Orleans
Last nite Ronnie Wiseman/Josh Roberts playing one pocket match for 48,000 chickens on one table, Steven Kanau/Randy playing 9 ball for 20k, chickens. ridiculous action almost nightly , come get some. players who have moved here besides Ronnie - Richie Richeson, Benny Conway, about a dozen formerly of Detroit that I don't know their names, Cliff Joiner, and more !:grin-square::wink::grin-square:
Last nite Ronnie Wiseman/Josh Roberts playing one pocket match for 48,000 chickens on one table, Steven Kanau/Randy playing 9 ball for 20k, chickens. ridiculous action almost nightly , come get some. players who have moved here besides Ronnie - Richie Richeson, Benny Conway, about a dozen formerly of Detroit that I don't know their names, Cliff Joiner, and more !:grin-square::wink::grin-square:
thought that kind of action was a thing of the past... 48k?
How do they even come up with that figure?
"Let's start off friendly and play for 20k."
"f*ck that, let's play for 50k."
"I just bought some shoes I only brought 48"
"fine, whatever."
C.J. does have some good pool tales. I like hearing the pool stories from the players who walk the walk. It's more realistic and true to form!
Cletus:
He was something else. Couldn't play a lick and wouldn't leave till he lost every dime.
He was a funny SOB too with his jokes and stories.
He had a hilarious whistle when he was playing and trying to steer a ball in the hole or avoiding scratching (which he did more than any human should). Waving his stick like a sword and contorting his body like he had epilepsy trying to get the ball in the hole...or trying to keep the cue ball out of the hole.
When he got the inevitable bad roll or scratch he'd yell so loud "Ohhhhhhh nooooo, did you see that Red". He loved Cornbread (who didn't?). If Red wasn't around he'd pick someone to be "on his side" and whoever it was, automatically got "jelly" from whoever he was playing...just because.
You had to beat him and get ahead right off the bat. If somehow he got two games winner, you had no chance to beat him out of anything. He'd quit you winners, just so he could endlessly talk about what a sucker you were. :lmao: Then he'd go off to someone else while you watched.
The games he would get and the ways he would lose his money were sick but that's what he got off on. We beat him real good at a few things and a couple were just plain out awful.
Like a lot of people he really didn't want to win. Its hard to win, you have to put in alot of sweat and hard work to win. You have to give alot of yourself to win.
Losing is easy for people, you don't have to put much effort into losing.
He passed away a few years ago and really hit rock bottom. He ended up being at the Casinos downtown panhandling and credit hustling.
I still wonder if parts of the experience weren't a dream.
Yes, Cletus was indeed a character and I could go into more detail about the match we played, but of course I have to leave something extra for the book.
Yes, you're right about your comments, and there were times when you may get 15% playing "J. Paul", Cletus, or Rosy and take off several hundred thousand. Sammy and James won $900,000 one night and Rosy ended up losing 15M over the course of a few years.
All this seems like fairy tales now, but I did see it, as you did and I still wonder if parts of the experience weren't a dream. I had my jewelry stolen out of my hotel there and some other negative experiences, but overall I came out pretty well and left Detroit with much more than I went there with. To beat those "sharps" was a major accomplishment, there was every top notch con, thief and hustler in the country there on a regular basis.
'The Rack was a great Teacher'
Yes, Cletus was indeed a character and I could go into more detail about the match we played, but of course I have to leave something extra for the book.
Yes, you're right about your comments, and there were times when you may get 15% playing "J. Paul", Cletus, or Rosy and take off several hundred thousand. Sammy and James won $900,000 one night and Rosy ended up losing 15M over the course of a few years.
All this seems like fairy tales now, but I did see it, as you did and I still wonder if parts of the experience weren't a dream. I had my jewelry stolen out of my hotel there and some other negative experiences, but overall I came out pretty well and left Detroit with much more than I went there with. To beat those "sharps" was a major accomplishment, there was every top notch con, thief and hustler in the country there on a regular basis.
'The Rack was a great Teacher'
I love these stories as we all do. This Cletus character ... if he never really won and wouldn't leave until he lost every dime---where did he get the money to begin with. Makes me think of the old adage of "A fool and his money are soon departed." I used to think ... how did a fool get the money to begin with before he/they were departed?
I love these stories as we all do. This Cletus character ... if he never really won and wouldn't leave until he lost every dime---where did he get the money to begin with. Makes me think of the old adage of "A fool and his money are soon departed." I used to think ... how did a fool get the money to begin with before he/they were departed?
Detroit put the "World on Wheels".
The auto companies have had hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people working for them at the plants themselves and all the different suppliers over the years.
Starting in the 1950's they just grew and grew and grew and grew.
You didn't need any kind of education to get any factory employment and with the unions, the money got better and better and better.
Thats what drew the Hillbilly's and Blacks up from the south. Go from having nothing to having more money than you ever had in your life and it was going to keep coming till you died.
So with that, came...drugs, gambling, booze, loan sharking, extortion, women and any other vice you could think of.
There was tons of untraceable cash that kept coming and coming and coming. As long as the Auto Companies were here, there was going to be money.
A little of that money found its way into "The Rack".
A guy like Cletus could make a ton of money selling pills and people are going to keep on buying them. Guys like him that would take the risk at "certain things" were always going to keep getting their hands on money, and big money at that. You don't always have to be smart to make money.
As a sidenote:
One reason the 3 stinking casinos here in Detroit are the biggest revenue generators in the country are because of all the retired auto workers.
They have expendable income like no where else. Pensions along with Social Security that give them incomes of 3, 4, 5, 6 thousand a month and up that keeps coming till they die...and then the spouse is in line to keep getting it.
I'm just kidding about the three hookers
Yes, there was nothing about Cletus that would lead you to believe he was a wholesome working man with a 9 to 5 job and white picket fence around his home for his 2.5 children and Golden Retriever.
From what I heard he have card board boxes full of cash tucked/stacked away. I never heard what happened to him, but I probable could have predicted what you described in three guesses, at least part of the details.
Money management certainly didn't appear to be his forte. I was unlucky he didn't lose $38,000, but sometimes the appeal of three hookers out weigh the desire to play one pocket (on the pool table). :groucho:
Ps: I'm just kidding about the three hookers.....it may have been four.
Yes, there was nothing about Cletus that would lead you to believe he was a wholesome working man with a 9 to 5 job and white picket fence around his home for his 2.5 children and Golden Retriever.
From what I heard he have card board boxes full of cash tucked/stacked away. I never heard what happened to him, but I probable could have predicted what you described in three guesses, at least part of the details.
Money management certainly didn't appear to be his forte. I was unlucky he didn't lose $38,000, but sometimes the appeal of three hookers out weigh the desire to play one pocket (on the pool table). :groucho:
Ps: I'm just kidding about the three hookers.....it may have been four.
No wonder Ronnie moved down there.
Hey Jam,
Last night at Buffalo Billiards, Kid Carl played Rerun for a 1000 rabbits a game!
Richie Richeson played on the barbox diamond table in the back for 3 Rabbits a small set. The guy he played really dug himself a hole to go into. Heavy weight players all over the worlds pool hall last night!
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.