Tiger's slide from grace -- is there a parallel in pool?
- Thread starter 9BallPaul
- Start date
might be apples and oranges
IMHO ......I think a pool champion who had a parallel experience to Tiger's demise would have to have the same conditions matter; Complete blowup of one's image in front of the world, from hero to goat and from being admired to despised, because of infidelity (which doesn't seem applicable to pool) which probably caused psychological problems.......Injury or disease which caused physical health problems (Maybe that kid who had some kind of shaking stroke hand problems; his name escapes me at the moment) ....
He would've had to dominate and stay on top like Tiger did for years; there has been nobody like that in pool that plummeted from his perch like Tiger that I know of......Of course there have been a lot of one-time champions who never seemed to achieve the heights again....i.e. US Open Champions....
IMHO ......I think a pool champion who had a parallel experience to Tiger's demise would have to have the same conditions matter; Complete blowup of one's image in front of the world, from hero to goat and from being admired to despised, because of infidelity (which doesn't seem applicable to pool) which probably caused psychological problems.......Injury or disease which caused physical health problems (Maybe that kid who had some kind of shaking stroke hand problems; his name escapes me at the moment) ....
He would've had to dominate and stay on top like Tiger did for years; there has been nobody like that in pool that plummeted from his perch like Tiger that I know of......Of course there have been a lot of one-time champions who never seemed to achieve the heights again....i.e. US Open Champions....
In snooker, Mark Williams won the World Championship in 2000 and 2003.
After 2003, when he won the triple crown - World Championship, Masters, UK Championship - he started to decline, eventually sinking to 47th on the ranking list.
This year he was back at #1, at the age of 36.
After 2003, when he won the triple crown - World Championship, Masters, UK Championship - he started to decline, eventually sinking to 47th on the ranking list.
This year he was back at #1, at the age of 36.
It's interesting how the public and media seems to have written him off as a contender. Consider this: Even now Tiger is one of the few golfers to completely dominate the game at his peer level for an extended uninterrupted period of time - 17 years from his first junior am win until his injury in 2008.
Nicklaus and Hogan, the 2 other greatest golfers, both had low points in their careers due to injury. Jack had a hip problem and Hogan a car accident.
Ben Hogan wasn't even supposed to walk again after his car accident - he was written off as a golfer. He willed himself to walk and heal, came back hobbling along to have a huge career after that. His age? 36 - same as Tiger's right now!
Besides talent, the key ingredient you see in all champions is they have extraordinary desire to succeed under extreme conditions where others would give up.
Tiger is making a comeback from injury and psychological distress - let's not write him off yet.
By the way - is he the greatest golfer who ever lived? I think no question about it.
Chris
No one ever like Tiger in Pool. The closest I can think of was Jon Kucharo who had risen to the top by age 21 or 22 and fell off the map just as fast. He had an amazing three year career. Michael Coltraine was also one of the top players while still in his 20's, and then he was gone just as quickly. Mark Tadd may have been the most talented of them all for a brief moment in time. Also washed up before age 30. Petey Margo is another champion who just decided to quit while right on top. With him it was a career decision and a good one as it turned out. He is probably far wealthier than any of his contemporaries today.
Tiger was having swing problems before he fell prey to the Ho's. You can see it if you look back at older videos. Not sure what happened. The knee injury could have caused it, not sure but his swing has never recovered. Can't think of a pool player to compare.
Tiger is having a self inflicted problem. His shenanigans have him thinking about what people are thinking about him, instead of thinking about the task at hand.
He may never recover.... that was some expensive foolin' around. He lost his family, a couple truck loads of money, his self respect & his ability to play Golf in public.
He will just have to go away with a only half a jillion dollars...
He may never recover.... that was some expensive foolin' around. He lost his family, a couple truck loads of money, his self respect & his ability to play Golf in public.
He will just have to go away with a only half a jillion dollars...
There is absolutely no comparison between the 2. Golf is much harder then pool in every aspect.Tiger has been injured for awhile then needed surgery to repair his knee. It didn't help for him to lose his support group either. Once he gets it sorted out in his head, i believe he will come roaring back Maybe not to what he once was but he is getting older and age catches up with everyone.
I find it funny when "pool players" call tiger a dirt bag.
He cheated on his wife like millions of other men. Not that it was the right thing to do but no one knows his home life. It doesn't matter how much money he has, i guess he was unhappy in the marriage and made sure his wife found out. It may have been subcutaneously that he wanted to get caught. Whatever get over it if it offends your sense of dignity.
He is one of the greatest of all time, if not the greatest.
JMHO
I find it funny when "pool players" call tiger a dirt bag.
He cheated on his wife like millions of other men. Not that it was the right thing to do but no one knows his home life. It doesn't matter how much money he has, i guess he was unhappy in the marriage and made sure his wife found out. It may have been subcutaneously that he wanted to get caught. Whatever get over it if it offends your sense of dignity.
He is one of the greatest of all time, if not the greatest.
JMHO
Karma is a b-tch! And Tiger is getting a real strong dose of that right now. :yes:
He may have just wanted to get under her epidermis.
Mr Roberts has made a point. Tiger woods has surpassed most of the greats in Golf Having been a Golf Pro, he was amazing to watch & follow his achievements.
About the reasons for his fall from grace.. he shouldn't have done what he did, but those of us that paid attention to another person's business, are guilty of breaching a person's privacy. Too bad that is one of humanities' flaw.
About the reasons for his fall from grace.. he shouldn't have done what he did, but those of us that paid attention to another person's business, are guilty of breaching a person's privacy. Too bad that is one of humanities' flaw.
Chris
We are all so fascinated by the fell of the greats, at least as much as we are fascinated by the greats themselves.
I wouldn't so so quick to write Tiggy off either. If anyone would like to bet me that Tiger won't win another major in, lets say the next 4 years (a career making feat that some of the best golfers in the world will never accomplish) that window is wide open.
Thanks
Kevin
Tiger will be back. I don't typically get pissed off reading sports columns or listening to sports commentary, but the ragging on him and all the baloney about him being lost, spouting gibberish, not having his head straight, and the killer: not knowing how to get out from where he is, is ludicrous. The column in the WP the other day by Sally Jenkins was especially galling.
If you've followed any of what he's ever said about his swing, you know Tiger is trying to understand more about his golf swing and all the intricate technicalities involved to perform at high level golf to a degree I doubt any other player operates at. He is working on things that most of us wouldn't understand if he explained it.
He has re-designed his swing before, but now he is trying to take it to another level, and he will eventually succeed. He knows what path he is on and I think a lot of people will be eating crow next year. His only mistake so far (golf wise) was the personal hubris that made him enter the PGA with so little preparation.
Lou Figueroa
Lou
Yeah he's redesigned it before with great effect, and although he doesn't say it much as excuses are not really his style (witness that Alpha Dog telling nobody he had a frigging broken leg until AFTER he limped out that US Open victory) I figure much of the swing change is centered around coming up with a movement that doesn't trash his body so much (or aggravate his already trashed body). His swing looks great to me, now its a matter of trusting it, which will come sooner rather than later.
Plus, in his absence, a whole crop of young kids have come up. Rory is talking about taking his card back and playing US Tour. Next season should be just great.
When Faldo was world #1, the betting line on him going into a Major would be 7 to 1. Tiger is ranked less than 100th, the Masters is 1/2 a year away, lots of things can happen between then and now. Anybody want to give me 20-1 against Tiggy in the 2012 Masters right now (plays or not doesn't matter)?
Kevin
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Good group you've named there.
Keith Thompson & Mark Beilfus would also make the cut.
I'm not condoning what went on between him and his ex at all.
But,look at it this way. When a man has STRANGE thrown at him as much as he has,which I'm guessing is literally daily since he turned pro,sooner or later it's gonna happen,esp when you factor in the quality level of that strange.
It's not like he's had low-rent ho's beatin his doors down,the women he had available to him were all attractive and highly polished,enough I'd bet that many that are reading my words would either succumb or be damn tempted,esp if they had a signifigant other that wasn't present.
So,add fine women and 15000 chances to put tab A into slot B,what do you think is gonna happen?
All that aside,I have no reason to believe his mental toughness has faded any at all,or his desire to win and accomplish the only goal that really matters to him,Jack's 18.
What he's had to deal with is injuries,lack of prep as a result,and as a result of that,a diminishing or disappearance of his aura of invincibility.
Here's a question for everyone. If YOU were the best at what you do for a living for over a decade,and a billionaire on paper as a direct result,would you really care about what the common man really thought about you? Tommy D.
But,look at it this way. When a man has STRANGE thrown at him as much as he has,which I'm guessing is literally daily since he turned pro,sooner or later it's gonna happen,esp when you factor in the quality level of that strange.
It's not like he's had low-rent ho's beatin his doors down,the women he had available to him were all attractive and highly polished,enough I'd bet that many that are reading my words would either succumb or be damn tempted,esp if they had a signifigant other that wasn't present.
So,add fine women and 15000 chances to put tab A into slot B,what do you think is gonna happen?
All that aside,I have no reason to believe his mental toughness has faded any at all,or his desire to win and accomplish the only goal that really matters to him,Jack's 18.
What he's had to deal with is injuries,lack of prep as a result,and as a result of that,a diminishing or disappearance of his aura of invincibility.
Here's a question for everyone. If YOU were the best at what you do for a living for over a decade,and a billionaire on paper as a direct result,would you really care about what the common man really thought about you? Tommy D.
I'm not sure if someone else mentioned this the way I'm about to, but one of the early posts was close. You have to stop and think, Tiger right now as of this point at the "LOWEST" of his career is at the level of the other top ranked pros in the world of golf. That's just how dominant he really is/was. How many times did any other of the lets say top 10 in the world golfers, how many times did they not make the cut in a tournament? Everybody is just shocked because he failed to make the cut a few times in his career. When Tiger came along and just completely dominated everybody, they all had to bring their game up and it took several years but the golf world just has the bar set higher. Let's look at it from the pool perspective, When SVB exploded onto the pro scene and really made his presence clear it forced everybody else to bring their game up especially the Americans and now look, Americans are winning tournaments again and they all have their game at or close to 100% You cant really deny that was a lot of SVBs doing. He made everybody realize with his undying work ethic with his pool game that you HAVE to practice to get to and stay on top.